October 30th Announcement Feedback

[Andrew Crossland]

Side Handle

Side Handle

I noticed that the Epic-X deal does not include the RED side handle. is it a necessity to have this or can you use the camera with just the REDMOTE?

 

[Imran Farouk]

the side handle is a battery pack but also has some functionality of the REDmote...
don't need it...cause the REDMote works with the RED, with or without the Handle..

 

[David Cherniack]

David,

Yup, I understand those issues. Mobile documantaries have been the very core of my business throughout my career, and with RED One for over two years now. As you know, as weight and bulk go up, mobility decreases. With all my RED One cameras I've continuously used some of the lightest and most mobile setups you'll find anywhere.

I really like the looks of the Gunner/handle/electronic lens setup. For real mobile use, don't forget that the side handle holds a battery. That's how I'd power that setup. For me it would be much preferable to carry several of the small batteries in my backpack, than to add the weight and bulk of the dedicated dual battery unit onto the back of the camera. For audio on that setup we'll just have to wait until the specs are finalized and released. For docs I routinely use a short shotgun for ambient, and a small dual wireless receiver mounted on the camera for interviews, or its mounted on a small side "L" bracket attached under the camera and sticking out on the smart side of the camera.

For fill or interview light in mobile docs I use a Lite Panels Mini Pro (LED with reostat) on a shoe on the top front of the camera body - small, light, capable, and runs on its own AA batteries.

If it will be a lot of shoulder held shooting I'll use the EVF. It it will be a lot of high angle and/or low angle shooting I'll use an LCD - in this case either the 2.8" or 5". As RED has mentioned many times, the EVF and LCD can both be mounted anywhere on the camera you want/need.

Bottom line: I see no problem keeping a fully functional Gunner setup as pictured very light, even when adding a small light, internal battery, wireless mic receiver, screw-on filter (no matte box!), and a short shotgun. Rest assured that's how my mobile hybrid/EFP doc rigs will be setup. Others can setup their cameras however they want/need.

For weight, I expect the setup of brain (6 lbs accocrding to RED), side handle, internal battery, electronic lens (about 2 pounds), Gunner, screw-on filter, LP MIni light, wireless receiver, and short shotgun to have an overall weight of around 14 pounds. My mobile documentary RED One rigs, setup very similar to the above, have averaged around 18 pounds.

Steve, we talk much the same gear language. I'm aware of the handle battery but the last run time figure I saw quoted here was 45 minutes and I assume that's not running an led light (I'm guessing there's a power tap in the handle) and an LCD. 30 minutes is about the minimum run time that's practical for me. As for the weight, 6 lbs. for the Scarlet brain? Seems a bit heavy. I would have guessed less. And 14 lbs for a rig may be too much for what I do. For shoulder work it's fine but I like to do a lot of sitting work chest high off a lap monopod. Still, where there's a will there's a way to rig it. I love the whole concept of Red straight through post.

David

 

[Steve Gibby]

Around 6 pounds for the Epic X brain as per Jim's announcement. A Scarlet S35 brain would probably be a bit lighter, maybe 5 pounds. My LED lights run on their own AA batteries, thus no drain on the camera battery. The LCD draws very little juice so I'd expect around 45 minutes per battery. The Bomb EVF should draw a bit more than an LCD. I never run both an LCD and EVF at the same time when shooting docs, unless I absolutely need to for the mix of shots I'm after.

The entire setup I described in my last post, including estimated weights, is for an Epic X in the lightest weight Gunner setup. To me, 14 pounds is a real cakewalk for hand held/shoulder held documentary work. Beyond straight shoulder held, I also do a ton of high angle and low angle shots.

As I mentioned in the last paragraph of my post, for even more mobile docs I'll use the fixed lens Scarlet, which should be a fair amount lighter than the Epic X Gunner setup described. It should also be a very good mobile 2nd unit camera for an Epic X shoot.

The right tool for each job...

 

[jamesbridges]

Quick question, will I be able to mount my 2/3" B4 mount Canon HDXS zoom to the Scarlet without the 2/3"B4 to PL adapter?



www.typeamedia.com

 

[David Battistella]

I really like the looks of the Gunner/handle/electronic lens setup. For real mobile use, don't forget that the side handle holds a battery. That's how I'd power that setup. For me it would be much preferable to carry several of the small batteries in my backpack, than to add the weight and bulk of the dedicated dual battery unit onto the back of the camera.

I guess the use of Nikon glass will also lighten the load and help with mobility. That's a good trade off for optics/performance/weight.

For audio on that setup we'll just have to wait until the specs are finalized and released. For docs I routinely use a short shotgun for ambient, and a small dual wireless receiver mounted on the camera for interviews, or its mounted on a small side "L" bracket attached under the camera and sticking out on the smart side of the camera.

Stuart english confirmed in this thread that the Epic brain has an audio input on it with line in, phantom power, (i'm guessing 1/8th inch) for a small shotgun mic to gather some ambient sound.

No AA batteries needed for the shotgun.

For fill or interview light in mobile docs I use a Lite Panels Mini Pro (LED with reostat) on a shoe on the top front of the camera body - small, light, capable, and runs on its own AA batteries.

I use lightpanels too. Great little two light kit that has been great in many situations.

Bottom line: I see no problem keeping a fully functional Gunner setup as pictured very light, even when adding a small light, internal battery, wireless mic receiver, screw-on filter (no matte box!), and a short shotgun. Rest assured that's how my mobile hybrid/EFP doc rigs will be setup. Others can setup their cameras however they want/need.

Even if you don't go with the pistol grip and servo motor on the gunner, you could use a rod and an aaton wood handle or something.

For weight, I expect the setup of brain (6 lbs accocrding to RED), side handle, internal battery, electronic lens (about 2 pounds), Gunner, screw-on filter, LP MIni light, wireless receiver, and short shotgun to have an overall weight of around 14 pounds.

I think that will still come in around 18 lbs, but 5K would be worth the weight.

All the above said, I'll also use a fixed lens Scarlet for many of my mobile documentaries, which should be even lighter, more streamlined, and the perfect low-profile guerilla documentary camera.

I agree that this will be a high quality, low light, intimate doc type camera and a perfect little brother to the rest of the lineup

David

 

[Steve Gibby]

James, that's a question RED Team can answer...

 

[Billy Gedney]

I guess the use of Nikon glass will also lighten the load and help with mobility. That's a good trade off for optics/performance/weight.



Stuart english confirmed in this thread that the Epic brain has an audio input on it with line in, phantom power, (i'm guessing 1/8th inch) for a small shotgun mic to gather some ambient sound.

No AA batteries needed for the shotgun.



I use lightpanels too. Great little two light kit that has been great in many situations.



Even if you don't go with the pistol grip and servo motor on the gunner, you could use a rod and an aaton wood handle or something.



I think that will still come in around 18 lbs, but 5K would be worth the weight.



I agree that this will be a high quality, low light, intimate doc type camera and a perfect little brother to the rest of the lineup

David

On behalf of those who are attempting to wait patiently- you're not helping...

All this talk of camera configuration makes me want an Scarlet FF35...

 

[David Cherniack]

My LED lights run on their own AA batteries, thus no drain on the camera battery.

True enough about the camera mount LP (but I wasn't terribly impressed with the initial build quality.) Some other led lights use LI camcorder batteries that give long run times. Hopefully we'll find out the watthour rating of the handle battery, the power draw of the various accessories, and whether there's a tap on the handle. BTW, do you have an educated guess about why there's no single, rear mount battery as part of the mix?

As for overall weight I remember a conversation I had with Al Maysles about ten years ago and how thrilled he was with what his PD100 allowed him to do compared to his old 16mm shoulder mount.

David

 

[Steve Gibby]

Good points Battistella. IMO the new RED Electronic Lenses will be made using much lighter weight technology than cine lenses - more along the line of 35mm stills lenses - and thus weigh about the same as comparable Canon and Nikon lenses. My average wide to mid length Nikon lenses weigh between 1.5 and 2.5 pounds.

With these new cameras on the horizon, these are exciting times for everyone - including us mobile production guys :hurray:

 

[Martin Weiss]

Exciting times indeed, Gibby.

And with the ability to capture in 1080p directly, this camera has just become ever more interesting for ENG/EFP productions, which we both know is a huge market (compared to the cine marked).

I love living in these times.

 

[Steve Gibby]

BTW, do you have an educated guess about why there's no single, rear mount battery as part of the mix?

I'm guessing the dual battery unit is simply for longer run times, which many people want, and not necessarily for super mobile work. People not concerned with weight can always use their existing RED power plate and RED Brick on these new cameras.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

Brains have internet connectivity built in. Firmware upgrades will be incredibly easy.. no matter what brain you have.

For Traditional upgrades via CF cards, they will be brain specific.

That sounds awesome. Just make sure you don't put a way to access REDUSER or Facebook or nobody will be able to do any work with the cameras!

By the way, I'm still really interested about RED RAY... I've asked twice but either it's being ignored or missed among all the other posts... Can't even give us a a "not yet"?

 

[Steve Gibby]

I totally agree Martin! The possibilities are expanding every day... :thumbsup:

 

[David Cherniack]

Good stuff, gentlemen. I'll look forward to learning all the lovely details.

David

 

[Steven Caesare]

If you read my post #535, on Page 54 of this thread (three days ago) I suggested the use of the handle on the far side, and the top end of it probably connecting as a lens servozoom unit to power zooming of the lens. I believe the servozoom connecting portion of the handle is what's visible on the far side, through the gap between the Gunner and the lens. As Jarred later pointed out in this thread, parts of the Gunner, and I would assume the handle, are on adjustable tracks. It may be that if its a powered handle/servozoom combo on a track, that it could be connected to a choice of either the zoom ring or focus ring, depending on whether you're using an electronic zoom (2 gear options) or an electronic prime (1 gear option).

The above, and what's in my post #535 are mere guesses on my part. If they aren't accurate guesses for what's in the render, and what the actual functionality of the parts pictured is, they're still very good suggestions to RED which would significantly broaden the style and genre utility of the DSMC line of cameras. For a few years now I've made suggestions here on RED User, and elsewhere, for a powered servozoom unit, and EFP zoom functionality in lenses which could be used as 3-Way electronic zooms (stills, hybrid/EFP, cine) depending on how the lenses are setup and accessorized.

In this case though, it was the right-side camera body handle (smart handle with battery), that was mistaken for a lens support that Grant was referring to in the post you quoted him in.

Nonetheless, I surmise these are all likely guesses, and mesh with some of what I observerd earlier as well.

-sc

 

[Raul Gonzo]

Confusion regarding Stage 2 and 3. Not a complaint, seeking clarification. thanks!

Why are you , well for lack of a better word, penalizing early adopters if they chose FULL TRADE-IN? i.e Stage 3.

Do they really have to wait for all 7000+ RED ONE owners to make a decision about Stage 2 BEFORE they get the full price trade -in? I.e effectively losing their place in line....

Hey Tim, thanks for asking this. I hadn't thought about it before. I am #290, but depending on funds may have to go for stage 3. Will I have to wait until all ~7000 current R1 owners are contacted before I can go get an EpicX in stage 3?
If so, no problem.
But, it will be good to know beforehand 8)

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Hey Tim, thanks for asking this. I hadn't thought about it before. I am #290, but depending on funds may have to go for stage 3. Will I have to wait until all ~7000 current R1 owners are contacted before I can go get an EpicX in stage 3?
If so, no problem.
But, it will be good to know beforehand 8)

Weclome, but STAGE 2 is where its at man, beg, borrow, make it happen.

STAGE 2 is also BEST for RED... and some on here have already THOUGHT AHEAD and are selling their RED ONE they are keeping, to subsidize the upgrade.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37098

The faster RED can get this program to bed, the more they can focus on regular deliveries, products and of course, pass savings on to us for future products. Incredibly generous program is also stupendously expensive.

So while I (out of guilt) spoke up for some Stage 3 people, my feet are clearly on the STAGE 2 Soap Box now. Its the best deal for RED ONE owners (who wont get a TATOO) and just as importantly, it is also BEST FOR RED.

cheers~!

GIBBY- Agreed 1000%, the config possibilities, really are endless. Cant wait to see what amazing images you grab with your TATTOO :wink:

 

[David Battistella]

On behalf of those who are attempting to wait patiently- you're not helping...

All this talk of camera configuration makes me want an Scarlet FF35...

Bill,

This is the beauty of RED. ultimately configurable. I run a very lightweight setup with custom parts and Nikon glass.

This past weekend my RED was used with Cooke S4's and a full cinestyle complement on a shoot.

One camera, one sensor, one fantastic image, but MANY uses and configurations.

This is the democracy of RED. A Hollywood film with a tricked out RED, a small doc by Gibby on the California coast, an interview in a Toronto living room.

Million dollar budget, ten cent budget.

Same sensor, same frame size, same capability.

Could not really have said that three years ago, could we?

Be excited. times are good.


David

 

[David Battistella]

Good points Battistella. IMO the new RED Electronic Lenses will be made using much lighter weight technology than cine lenses - more along the line of 35mm stills lenses - and thus weigh about the same as comparable Canon and Nikon lenses. My average wide to mid length Nikon lenses weigh between 1.5 and 2.5 pounds.

With these new cameras on the horizon, these are exciting times for everyone - including us mobile production guys :hurray:

Steve,

That's good news about the RED glass and with the sensitivity of the new sensor that Jim is posting, it means that f2.8 will be pretty fast glass as well. You will need those screw in filters for sure!

Happy filming.

David