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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

October 30th Announcement Feedback

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Brendan Johnson said:
Question, When this trade-in/credit phase is over, will that be the end of all future trade in offers?
Would a new customer who buys an Epic brain for example, be able to trade it in for whatever technology is the successor of said Epic brain?
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The modular system is what replaces the trade in. Instead of buying a whole new camera, for much less money you just buy the sensor and electronics required to power it (the brain), and it fits right in with your existing modules.

EDIT: I give up. Jim always beats me to posting replies and says it better anyways. ;)
 
Why is it so hard for some to see this?
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It's OK. If you have upwards of $30k or more to invest in camera equipment from Red you are of course a very happy camper. if you are waiting for a least expensive Scarlet be ready to wait for a long long wait. That's not so hard to comprehend, right?
 
John Caballero said:
It's OK. If you have upwards of $30k or more to invest in camera equipment from Red you are of course a very happy camper. if you are waiting for a least expensive Scarlet be ready to wait for a long long wait. That's not so hard to comprehend, right?
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Or it may be "OK" if you have only $10K-$15K and already shooting with another camera. AND, you take into consideration that Jim wants these out on the market for our benefit just as for his. Also, you have to come to the realization that RED was merely a thought 3-4 years ago and they are shaking the whole world of film and how professionals go about shooting films...and have been for the last 2 years. Pretty astounding.
 
Jannard said:
We have a program that operates like no other camera company (or any company I know of for that matter). A full trade-in allowance option for something that people have owned for up to two years... and many RED ONEs have have paid for themselves, some ten times over. It is just a bit incredible to offer this, priority in every possible way and give every option imaginable to every customer. If there is a better program out there, we are willing to listen.

Jim
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Jim, first, sorry you are getting all these annoying Scarlet posts... its sad really. Glad to see you guys staying on the high road.

Back to the EPIC thread. no question the program is beyond generous... and Id guess many bought the RED ONE because it was sold with a "Trade In allowance". FACT: The trade-in offer was an ingenious way to build trust and loyalty, no question there at all.

Unless you cant afford to upgrade Stage 2. Thats where the program has a potentially perceived, well, lets call it a "hiccup".

Forget the generosity, for just a moment, and please look at their CONTEXT.
and remember, Im just the messenger :)

Before the announcement they had their place in line and a full price trade-in... now, they still have their full price trade-in yes, but alas, their coveted place in line is now only relative to each STAGE. (Everything changes. understood) but that is also one change, that is something you can control.

So can you see how they might feel bumped? Especially, when, if they had the dough, STAGE 2 is a no-brainer... they should all do that anyway.
Its by far the best value. Agreed and thanks!

but when STAGE 3 is all they can afford... the perspective, like it or not, is that they got bumped for not being able to afford Stage 2.

CONTEXT is key.

From RED's context, there really is no argument... the alternative is, you get nothing. People certainly get that. So please dont mistake their context (no matter how narrow it may appear) with ingratitude. Its not the case. Many of us know and really appreciate the challenges you face.

My suggestion, even at the risk of getting bumped by Stage 3 guys before me, is I really think you should at least consider combining Stage 3 with Stage 2... making it the same stage, but with a CHOICE.

Besides, then you only go down the line once....and perhaps more quickly put the program to bed and ship to everyone else without a RED ONE faster.
The latter having the most margins, from a business perspective, is the ultimate goal I imagine.

REVISED PROGRAM SUGGESTION:

Stage 1.

6 to ?, get a Tattoo... killer program as well.

Stage 2
. Keep or Trade your RED ONE. Your choice.

Stage 3- Everyone else can now buy an Epic.

Personally, I am going 100% STAGE 2 if I cant get a Tattoo...as its the the BEST value. Wait, I keep my RED1 and still get a discount? Freaking awesome deal..oh and I can upgrade my R1 to M-X? and have 2 cameras with the same EPIC sensor? WOW~ thanks!

But if im broke, and just want the Epic I waited for so long, and my full price trade in is JUST barely affording me to do it... Im in!

"but wait, why do I have to wait? Im still buying an EPIC Jim, "Jarred, im still buying an EPIC!..." Im keeping my side of the Trade-In deal? Please dont bump me because Im too broke for Stage 2!"

That is the current context of Stage 3 early adopters.

It goes without saying they ARE grateful Jim... and very loyal... but I think you inadvertently alienated some peeps with the program as it stands... especially when before the announcement, everybody expected to just "trade-in." based on their place in line.

Selfishly, I hope it stays the same, cuz Ill get my EPIC sooner, but personally, I feel like Im screwing people who were here WAY before me, simply because I have $ for Stage 2 and they dont.

Thanks for listening.
 
Is a "basic" audio module for the budget minded a possibility, by chance? like, just 2 full-size xlr inputs and that's it... maybe some level controls... something that might be had for maybe 500'ish...

Obviously the jacks on the front of the brain are likely more than capable of handling my own audio needs if need be, and that's what I should be thinking about using since the i/o modules (awesome as they look) are out of my own personal budget range... I'm just used to xlr inputs (primarily b/c it's all I've used) and also the potential for being able to isolate the audio connections/cables away from the brain and lens a bit is appealing to me.

Guess I'm wondering if it might be possible/feasible for a "middle-of-the-road" option between front of brain connections, and i/o modules
 
David Stewart said:
Ok. I thought there was going to be a release date, order time etc. Is this a release date of the release date or what? Sounds like a new rehash of a rehash of what the cameras are going to hypothetically do and maybe cost potentially or thereabouts. You know I've perused this site from time to time and have been very disappointed as to the progress of this camera. Kissing Red's *ss aint going to get you a free camera or ahead of the line. If you bought a Red, then perhaps you might have some leverage, but this is sick. When you go fishing you throw out a bunch of chum to attract the fish. I see this as chum and nothing else. Kick me if you want, but camera date release, a down payment order, or something for us little guys who are not going to make a motion picture (but the real money maker for this camera) would be a smart move. I do ballet's, sports, weddings, quincineras, music vids for people with a lot of money who would buy this camera in a heart beat if they saw me using it and heard how much I paid. Instead you release it to a few hundred camera geeks to test because they bought a Red? Annoying.
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Actually I find your wording ANNOYING and OFFENSIVE, and Jim as usual is very DIPLOMATIC in his responses to posts such as yours.

I could add a tone, but I prefer to just entirely ignore your comments, well not entirely since I'm responding by quoting your absurd expectations and out right out of line comments on reach guys, geeks and trowing chum..

If you only knew not half the story but nearly a third of guys like myself and what RED has done and continues to do and means to us then you will certainly retain your self from making such comments, and come to the forum a little more often and spend a little of time doing some reading.
 
I'm pretty sure this question got lost in the sea of questions a little while back, so I'll try again - could anyone give us a hint about when we'll hear some RED RAY news? RED RAY is still stated to come out in 2009 on the RED website.

Maybe some more news on Nov. 30?
 
rotating tripod collar?

rotating tripod collar?

On the gunner renders with the 24-xx electronic lens, there is a vertical post below the lens just in front of the mount, where you would find the tripod collar on a typical Nikon or Canon pro level lens of the same length (ie nikon's 24-70 f2.8).

Its not clear from the picture if this is a part of the lens or the gunner. If its part of the lens, it doesn't seem like there is a collar around the lens that would let the lens rotate freely, it appears intended to integrate with rails or the gunner which are always directly below the lens. (Based on the revelations that the lens is electronic and not mechanical, it may not serve as a load bearing mount at all and may be a data socket for the gun's remote grip.)

While trivial sounding, a rotating collar is one hell of a lot easier to manage going from landscape to portrait orientation (for DSMC setup) than any of the tripod head gizmos on the market that let you do the same. If you're looking for feedback from people wanting to use the lenses for stills also, this size lens (I'm guessing from the render of course) is going to be on a tripod as much as its handheld.

One more thought. I'm wondering if there is a tap on the bottom of the Gunner somewhere where a quick release plate could be attached. Mostly because a tripod is a lot more stable place to put down the camera between lighting/wardrobe changes than a table/chair or assistant.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
I'm pretty sure this question got lost in the sea of questions a little while back, so I'll try again - could anyone give us a hint about when we'll hear some RED RAY news? RED RAY is still stated to come out in 2009 on the RED website.

Maybe some more news on Nov. 30?
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Yes, I'm interested too. :yesnod:
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
But if im broke, and just want the Epic I waited for so long, and my full price trade in is JUST barely affording me to do it... Im in!

"but wait, why do I have to wait? Im still buying an EPIC Jim, "Jarred, im still buying an EPIC!..." Im keeping my side of the Trade-In deal? Please dont bump me because Im too broke for Stage 2!"

That is the current context of Stage 3 early adopters.

It goes without saying they ARE grateful Jim... and very loyal... but I think you inadvertently alienated some peeps with the program as it stands... especially when before the announcement, everybody expected to just "trade-in." based on their place in line.

Selfishly, I hope it stays the same, cuz Ill get my EPIC sooner, but personally, I feel like Im screwing people who were here WAY before me, simply because I have $ for Stage 2 and they dont.

Thanks for listening.
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I understand the point that you are making here, Tim.

But doesn't it all come down to money and resources at the end of the day anyway? There are many people who have believed in the RED concept from the early days who would have gladly taken the gamble and the growing pains of being an early adopter...if they just had the money to do so. I'm sure there are people that have been closely following RED since the start who would absolutely love to be in that EPIC trade-in priority line, but just didn't have the finances to get there.

To the "little-guy" it probably seems ironic to hear people (not you, i know) feeling let-down that they have to wait a little bit longer for their (unbelievably generous) full-value trade-in JUST because they're a bit short on cash.

I would imagine that it's a bit like a poor beggar outside of a fancy restaurant watching customers argue over who is getting their caviar first! (OK, I admit, that's an imperfect metaphor...)

BTW - this is in no way a flame to you Tim. I see your point and understand that you are just the messenger here.

I predict that in the end, everyone will be extremely happy with what they get.
 
Tim Whitcomb nailed my feelings on the head exactly. I too am amazed by the generosity of the trade-in program, never seen anything like it before.

However, as owner of RED ONE #63, I was looking forward to being first in line in my area (a valuable position to be in), and was looking forward to the original trade in program since I won't have much need for two cameras, and simply can't afford anything more.

Now I'm learning that I'm going to be FAR from the first Epic-X owner in my area because I can't afford Stage 2 (I'd be happy, and I think I'm qualified, to do Stage 1, but again, too expensive).

Like I said, I'm not disparaging the trade-in program at all, just disappointed I essentially got bumped from the front to near the back of the line.

I think Tim's idea of merging the timing of 2 and 3 is an ideal solution. My two cents.
 
Jannard said:
The idea of a full trade-in allowance began when we realized that "Obsolescence Obsolete" with the RED ONE didn't go as far as we had hoped. While you can upgrade the sensor, the specs are limited to certain boards inside. From here on out, you can upgrade an EPIC or Scarlet as needed, from sensor (Brain) to each individual module. There will no longer be a trade-in allowance going forward... because the system is now ideal. We suspect that there will be good resale value in each brain going forward.

We care about our customers and try our best to treat them as we would want to be treated... but it is a business. The development costs for these cameras are astronomical... we need to charge so we can continue to move the system forward and stay ahead of the market in features and specs. Once you are in the RED system, we want you to always have the best equipment as technology advances.

Jim
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Totally understand, I hope you and the RED team are handsomely rewarded for your developmental efforts
Here's to REDs continued leading-edge status! :cheers2:
 
Quick question regarding mysterium-x sensors:

any idea when we will get a sense of how it handles low-light environments. i think a lot of us that shoot nature will be very interested to see some test shots, etc.

Thank you in advance for all the hard work.
 
Lee Saxon said:
Personally I think it's crazy that you can trade your current camera for a 100% refund.

I just wonder how much cheaper all the cameras could be if 'Stage 2' and 'Stage 3' didn't exist.
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I wonder if all the cameras would be what they are if the early adopters didn't exist.
 
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