November 30th Announcement Feedback

[Lee Fingersh]

I do not mean dont use canon, nikon etc lenses for 2/3 scarlet. I just want to point that problem. DSLR lenses are perfect for s35 or FF scarlet, epic! I have many nikon prime and zoom, and asked nikon rep. about the lens resolution and it is around 50-70 line/mm

Oh, brother. For a rep to say such a thing he mush know very little about lenses.

Both Nikon and Canon's high-quality primes can deliver well over 100lp/mm at MTF50 in the center, a few closer to 200 or even more.

Yes, the softer retrofocus zooms can't do anywhere near that. But the range is way, way wider than 50-70!

 

[paulherrin]

Oh, brother. For a rep to say such a thing he mush know very little about lenses.

Both Nikon and Canon's high-quality primes can deliver well over 100lp/mm at MTF50 in the center, a few closer to 200 or even more.

Yes, the softer retrofocus zooms can't do anywhere near that. But the range is way, way wider than 50-70!

sounds cool. how can you support it?

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Thoughts on the Bomb, REDRAY, 18mm...

Thoughts on the Bomb, REDRAY, 18mm...

Just caught up on all the posts in one evening - was off on a shoot the past few days. Buried within all of the fantastic news in this thread, I noticed a few comments on the naming of the "Bomb" EVF. Thought it appropriate to add this thought to the discussion.
There are some very compelling arguments that a name is only a name. It may be obvious that the viewfinder is not dangerous after inspection. But please consider this: Everytime you give a TSA agent a reason to spend more time looking at your gear, it means less time is spent looking at someone else. Think about it - while you are explaining why you declared a "Bomb EVF" in your possession to a growing number of interested authorities, a diversion was created - and that is an opportunity for someone else who does not have your safety in mind to get something past security.
That possibility alone is reason to rethink how the gear is marked.

My suggestion is to compromise:
RED - keep the name as you wish on the web site, in product descriptions, advertising - whatever you want to market the product. However, please avoid permanently marking the equipment in any manner that would have a double entendre that could compromise public safety - even indirectly.


Next: REDRAY Pro - need to know more. This unit has added so many features since the first prototype at NAB it will certainly become another revolution in the industry. Will this version (or one yet to come) have the capability to record direct from the camera in the field to act as a backup? Can files be downloaded into it from an online connection? Could the DVI-D connectors possibly become BNC's so that I could attach a 3G fiber transmitter? I had suspected the release date would be pushed back since the traffic on this forum is light in that area - but now, it looks like it may be available very soon - sign me up.

Next subject: Did I somehow skip over any reaction at all within 1186 posts to Jim's news that the 18mm is close to release? Amazing. But if so, could you publish some of the specs (does it match in physical size with others?) I'm about to have a case manufactured for my other Pro Primes - will happily have that hole cut now!
God, how I wish I had that lens two weeks ago. While I have been extremely pleased with the quality of the Pro Primes - I just wish that they had some lens data connectivity - at a minimum - just to communicate the lens focal length and serial number (great way to track stolen glass).
I'll be going EPIC - which will now have active LDS capability - wouldn't it be a great complement to the system...
Then, could a 12mm or 14mm be next?

Thank you again RED team!

 

[David Rasberry]

Oh, brother. For a rep to say such a thing he mush know very little about lenses.

Both Nikon and Canon's high-quality primes can deliver well over 100lp/mm at MTF50 in the center, a few closer to 200 or even more.

Yes, the softer retrofocus zooms can't do anywhere near that. But the range is way, way wider than 50-70!

At least from posted tests on DPreview, you will be hard put to find a 35mm format lens that will break 100lpmm at its sharpest aperture, generally around f4. The very best will fall in the 90-110lpmm range, most will be more in the 50-70lpmm range. They fair much worse wide open or stopped down beyond f5.6 generally falling below 50lpmm. This is for the top line primes. Zooms mostly fall 70lpmm or lower through most of the range.
Good cine lenses for 16mm are generally much sharper, I expect RED's will be too and they are optimized for the sensor and OLPF used.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

Next subject: Did I somehow skip over any reaction at all within 1186 posts to Jim's news that the 18mm is close to release? Amazing. But if so, could you publish some of the specs (does it match in physical size with others?) I'm about to have a case manufactured for my other Pro Primes - will happily have that hole cut now!

Jarred posted in the Oct. 30th announcement that the 18mm RPP would be the same size as the others:

that is what is taking so long.. getting the 18mm to the same size as the 25mm while maintaining the quality is alot harder than it would seem.

The good news is.. we finally have gotten to that point and those final prototypes are being built.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

don't project lenses much do you?

don't project lenses much do you?

At least from posted tests on DPreview, you will be hard put to find a 35mm format lens that will break 100lpmm at its sharpest aperture, generally around f4. The very best will fall in the 90-110lpmm range, most will be more in the 50-70lpmm range. They fair much worse wide open or stopped down beyond f5.6 generally falling below 50lpmm. This is for the top line primes. Zooms mostly fall 70lpmm or lower through most of the range.
Good cine lenses for 16mm are generally much sharper, I expect RED's will be too and they are optimized for the sensor and OLPF used.

I do every day and can tell you first hand that for the higher end still primes and zooms 100lppm is not an issue. The MTF may vary but they all resolve that easily. Back in the 1980s it may have been impressive to resolve 100 but not now.
you are right about the 16mm vs 35mm-good 16 will always offer better performance- this is just physics..

 

[David Rasberry]

don't project lenses much do you?

No, I rely on good info and tests from guys like you Jacek. Thanks. :biggrin5:
If you buy the best quality top line lenses they will perform pretty well obviously. And 100lpmm from a 35mm lens is certainly enough for good quality HD on a 2/3" Scarlet as an option if you have them.
How does the Tokina 11-16mm that is so popular fare? Have you looked at one of those? It at least goes wide enough to provide a slightly wider than normal focal length for 2/3".

 

[Jarred Land]

Just a request, may seem a bit out of the way but was just wondering...

is it possible to get the Mini Primes in the palm of a hand kind of shot? Just for perspective understanding...just wanna see how small these things really are! Look incredible and such a good price too its incredible...

good idea

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

good idea

Post the photo and have a good night of sleep Jarred.

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Joseph Hutson]

Did I write something bad?

Haha, no. Just starin' you down, trying to figure how you came up with that.

 

[Gabriel Scindian]

I do not mean dont use canon, nikon etc lenses for 2/3 scarlet. I just want to point that problem. DSLR lenses are perfect for s35 or FF scarlet, epic! I have many nikon prime and zoom, and asked nikon rep. about the lens resolution and it is around 50-70 line/mm
Scarlet 2/3 sized 3K sensor has a very litle pixel size:3.2 micron.. so U need HIGH RES OPTICS!! S35 sensore has 5.4 micron size, so almost a half res lens would be fine.
I read here somewhere (sorry, I cant find that topic), that scarlet 2/3 needs 100 line /mm res. lenses. thats why dslr lenses wouldnt be fine for 3K with 2/3 sensor.
Of course need tests!

That makes absolute sense! Thanks everyone for all of the feedback!

 

[Michael Grugal]

Quick question.

Do you see the Scarlet 2/3" putting a dent into the broadcast world? What I mean is it feesable to take a 1080p 30p signal from the camera and ingest live into switchers, capturing, and/or microwaved from a sattelite truck?

 

[Stuart English]

Scarlet in broadcast

Scarlet in broadcast

Do you see the Scarlet 2/3" putting a dent into the broadcast world?

... is it feesable to take a 1080p 30p signal from the camera and ingest live into switchers, capturing, and/or microwaved from a sattelite truck?

I's possible that it could, but 1080p 30fps (or 1080p 29.97 fps) is not a TV production standard....

 

[Michael Grugal]

Yes like on my show Inside MMA for HDNet I think it's 1080i 60i

But ya I just said 1080p 29.97 because we can downcovert that. Nothing is broadcasted 1080 progressive.

 

[Michael Grugal]

I also understand though that this is not a studio camera. And that I can't remote shade it. But will baked look out of the camera be adjustable?

 

[joshua csehak]

please never refer to Ken Rockwell again

He's right, mostly (re this: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm).

I used to work in print, and you can't really tell the difference between a super-sharp photo or computer rendering professionally printed at 300dpi vs. 150dpi. But you can with vector text, if you look closely. So we used to lay out album covers with 150dpi artwork, put text over it in Illustrator, and get them printed at 300dpi.

Now where his logic falls apart, is if a digital camera takes an image at 3000 pixels wide, but there's haloing on the specular highlights and other digital nastiness, and you have to resize it in half to get rid of all that, then you need a camera with four times the megapixels you actually need.

Not that this isn't waaaaaaaay off-topic...

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I also understand though that this is not a studio camera. And that I can't remote shade it. But will baked look out of the camera be adjustable?

FLUTs should handle that one way or another.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I also understand though that this is not a studio camera. And that I can't remote shade it. But will baked look out of the camera be adjustable?

Hi Michael, as you know, this is a RAW camera, so all "looks" are non-destructive. You can apply all kinds of looks, LUTS, without affecting the r3d's.

Giving us more options in post for "processing... The reason these are priced so much more competitively is that they are NOT VIDEO cameras, there is no "in-camera" processing on record or "baking" of anything on playback.

The new FLUT is speculated to allow one to create the look in POST, and then load those settings in the camera... but even then, it wont be RECORDED in any format other than RAW.

cheers!

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Hi Michael, as you know, this is a RAW camera, so all "looks" are non-destructive. You can apply all kinds of looks, LUTS, without affecting the r3d's.

Giving us more options in post for "processing... The reason these are priced so much more competitively is that they are NOT VIDEO cameras, there is no "in-camera" processing on record or "baking" of anything on playback.

The new FLUT is speculated to allow one to create the look in POST, and then load those settings in the camera... but even then, it wont be RECORDED in any format other than RAW.

cheers!

But things are gonna be baked-in in the RGB mode.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Maybe some third party will make an add-on that allows you to electronically control a manual prime with the redmote with a little add on box. Of course, would probably be noisy.

What would REALLY be cool is to be able to setup say two setups on the camera and be able to go between them with two buttons. Like, setup a zoom range, and a focus range, then a delay value and automate that during recording. Doing it with the detached redmote, you could have some crazy fun with that.

Just thinking out loud.