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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

November 30th Announcement Feedback

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My questions already got lost i think so i'll ask one more time just in case it will be seen the second time haha.

First, is the 1.8" ssd reader essential for uploading clips? Or can you upload without it?

Second, what is the uploading like? Do you just drag your clips off of the drive onto the computer? Or is there some other process?
 
Justin O'Neill said:
One option is: "Remote camera control and Files can be copied off the media via gigabit ethernet". #7 on the Nov. 30th announcement.

Jarred clarifying:
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yeah i saw that, and that is pretty tight, i must say. but i was just wondering about the 1.8" methods more specifically, but now that we're talking about it, is the gigE method where you plug an ethernet cable from camera to computer or what?
 
Norman B. Miller said:
Was wondering if the HDR can be used for motion as well as stills on the Scarlet?
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we don't know much about the HDR feature on the new cameras as of yet... though we can expect it will be more than the typical auto bracketing on DSLR's.

now, of course - you could use even that for time-lapse motion. some have speculated there will be HDR video capabilities... I doubt it very much so.

though, i think with the latitude of the RAWs you could generate HDR from a single clip by essentially "baking out" your footage at say 3 different levels, and using your favorite tone-mapper (I like Photoshop) to generate your images frame by frame (simple automations or batch processing).

I would love it if someone with One could run some tests.
(or send me some files and I'll run some)

pH
 
Pietro Impagliazzo said:
But things are gonna be baked-in in the RGB mode.
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Not necessarily. It'll be more baked but there is nothing to prevent RED from outputting an unprocessed RGB image. Any LUTs applied to the footage would be on top of a flat RGB anyway so you might as well encode it as metadata.
 
paulherrin said:
now, of course - you could use even that for time-lapse motion. some have speculated there will be HDR video capabilities... I doubt it very much so.
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I doubt the motion idea too. I thought about this a few years ago when I started playing with HDR photo's. I thought it would be cool to capture HDR motion, but there are some levels that technology hasn't reached yet. One is that I don't believe a true HDR monitor exists yet. Though the advancement of LED LCD's and 120Hz capabilities are bringing home theater to a new level, this still isn't a true HDR monitor. Two, the processing of motion HDR would kill your computer. I mean, processing HDR photos can really work out your processors... so quantify that by a large amount of images captured through motion and well, you get the idea. And lastly, the final result is still going to be down-converted to an image with less bit-depth, etc... so HDR motion is like massive overkill, no matter how important the project.

I am curious about the ethernet data transfer. I heard there were some connectivity issues with this type of connection before. I think I read this when I was researching a DROBO disk storage device. It had the ethernet connection, but people mentioned issues that needed to be worked out with that. ?? IDK, maybe safe to just plan for a SSD reader.

And given the info about the Canon lenses and capable line/mm resolution... I am starting to lean towards the 8X fixed after a year of wanting the 2/3" cinema with a Canon mount. At least I know what I am getting into before it's too late!
 
For capturing HDR motion, at low frame rates, why couldn't you just not reset after the read and say read three times in a row?

I don't see why this wouldn't be possible. I think it would be hit or miss for awhile until people understood what kind of settings they would need, but I don't see why it wouldn't be doable. Getting the right lens speed will be important, but it would be pretty cool.

Essentially, at the minimum, you'd get three frames in a row at different exposures and then reset. Given the scarlet can do 150 frames per second, this should NOT be a hard thing to do in camera. Now, seeing anything ON the camera in HDR is not gonna happen, but in post is where you work the magic like you do with a still.

Sound pretty cool to me!

Rick
 
Rick Burnett said:
For capturing HDR motion, at low frame rates, why couldn't you just not reset after the read and say read three times in a row?
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Hmm, could be tricky with any kind of movement, cause each frame would have elements offset by a little bit (depending on how much movement). But it might be that the software could mush them together to end up with a pleasing motion blur. You'd have to, actually, cause otherwise you'd be shooting with a really tight shutter angle, I think.

Thinking out loud here, if you had a guy running across the screen and a stationary camera, shooting at 48fps leaving the gate open the whole time (if that's possible), and each frame was getting alternately overexposed and underexposed by a stop... You'd probably want to wind up with two streams that you could combine in post into one 24fps file, and one stream would be offset 1/48th of a second later than the other. So the background would look like a regular HDR, but the guy might look weird.

The other way to do it, I suppose, would be some kind of debayering-type thing where the sensor was like a checkerboard, and the even-numbered pixels would be set to underexpose by a stop, and the odd-numbered ones to overexpose, and then you'd wind up with two streams that were exactly the same timewise, but at half the resolution of a normal recording. That'd be pretty cool, actually. If it's even possible.
 
ScottyC said:
I thought it would be cool to capture HDR motion, but there are some levels that technology hasn't reached yet. One is that I don't believe a true HDR monitor exists yet.
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Scotty, I was specifically referring to the tone-mapping HDR processes, not necessarily 32-bit final output... So from a computer tech perspective they wouldn't be true HDR but we don't want to get into all the linguistics... Simply put, it would be nice to get a little bonus sometimes for scenes that do have a high dynamic range of light. We're not talking about those janky lookin "HDR's" that make one cry - we're talking about better replication of the eye's natural response to light, used in a delicate, effective, and intentional manner... i.e. something Graeme might just enjoy. (:

For example...
picture.php

Shot near the Spanish Steps in Rome, Italy.

Rick Burnett said:
For capturing HDR motion, at low frame rates, why couldn't you just not reset after the read and say read three times in a row?
Click to expand...

I've thought about this as well... however, as joshua said there will be motion issues in many cases. maybe not unresolvable, but issues just the same. and honestly i don't know enough about how the camera works but I'm not sure that you could adjust shutter speeds (or ND's or whatever would be used for alternate frames) in that amount of time. i just don't know.

AND even with the exact same shot is going to give you motion issues at different shutter speeds, obviously, when dealing with quick motion especially.

But something with ND's might work... Like you start out overexposed a bit, and it ND's down from there. I have nothing whatsoever to back up how it could actually, practically be accomplished... I'm just saying. haha

You could also use a mirroring rig (for 3d) with zero interaxial and do the same thing and ND one of the cameras.

However, I would reallllllllly like to try using simply the RAW data at different exposures.
Anyone like to supply some test footage?
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Not necessarily. It'll be more baked but there is nothing to prevent RED from outputting an unprocessed RGB image. Any LUTs applied to the footage would be on top of a flat RGB anyway so you might as well encode it as metadata.
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This would be ideal -- footage that's debayered but otherwise unprocessed. Basically raw RGB, like a Viper in FilmStream mode. You end up with footage that's a lot easier to work with than footage that requires a full debayer, but that still gives you most of the benefits of shooting raw.
 
What would be really slick is a "background" footage downloading feature, where the camera constantly and transparently backed up footage over ethernet whenever it could, automatically pausing whenever you had to roll a take or whenever you pulled the ethernet cable, and picking up where it left off when it could.
 
Chris Kenny said:
What would be really slick is a "background" footage downloading feature, where the camera constantly and transparently backed up footage over ethernet whenever it could, automatically pausing whenever you had to roll a take or whenever you pulled the ethernet cable, and picking up where it left off when it could.
Click to expand...

:iagree:
 
Justin O'Neill said:
Yeah I imagine you plug one end of an ethernet cable into the brain and one end into your computer and the media mounts as an external drive. Pretty cool.
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I'm not so sure.

Ethernet is typically not a mass storage interconnect in this type of scenario, like USB mass-storage is. The exception is iSCSI, which is non-trivial and won't be plug-n-play for 99.9% of systems out there.

I suspect a more likely scenario is that the camera gets plugged in to your network (rather than directly into your computer), and you go from there.

The camera woyuld then get an IP address, and provide some method of interacting with it. This could be a small web interface, and/or hopefully a command interface (scriptable!). These would allow you to browse and transfer data from the camera media. (And also provide for remote control).

It's possible that the camera could also implment an NFS or CIFS stack and share the data out that way, so it could be mounted as a volume from your computer... that's the closest you'd get to having it show up as an external HDD, but I think that a slightly less likely scenario.... but would be cool if included.

All pure speculation, of course (other than the camera-control via commands over the ethernet link, which has been confirmed).

-sc
 
paulherrin said:
Scotty, I was specifically referring to the tone-mapping HDR processes.
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The new Arri cameras do some interesting tricks to get High(er) Dynamic Range video:


Lots of secret sauce in the sensor, most of it we cannot talk about.

One thing we can talk about is the Dual Gain Architecture. We are taking the signal from each pixel, and splitting it into two different pathways. One with high, one with low gain. So out of 32 signal paths from the sensor to the A/D converters now we have made 64. Each goes into a 14 bit A/D converter, and then the high gain and the low gain 14 bit images are being re-combined in the camera electronics into a 16 bit image with meaningful brightness data in all 165 bits. HDR.
 
Just a question, are you guys at RED expecting to be able to cope with all the orders for the Scarlet 2/3" Fixed when it comes out, or will there end up being a 1 year waiting list like for the RED One? I know it's not easy to answer, but what are your plans for this?
 
Chris Kenny said:
What would be really slick is a "background" footage downloading feature, where the camera constantly and transparently backed up footage over ethernet whenever it could, automatically pausing whenever you had to roll a take or whenever you pulled the ethernet cable, and picking up where it left off when it could.
Click to expand...
Would you really want another cable hanging off the camera? It'd be better if you could mount two harddrives and have it make two copies as it recorded, take one off and when you put it back on have the camera duplicate any missing shots back and checksum them both whilst the camera isn't rolling. Though frankly if the drives were reliable enough I don't see why you couldn't just walk away with two copies each day without doing any backups whatsoever.

Paul
 
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