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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

November 30th Announcement Feedback

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On the UI picture we can see there's the central view with focusing point, but we can see the landscape out of the frame too (shadowed).

It's probably a stupid question but is it just safe margins or can we actually see what's around the recorded frame (like on leica telemetric cameras) ?
 
David Cherniack said:
I may be wrong but both of these methods would seem less accurate in a run and gun situation than controlling an X cursor on the LCD/viewfinder with a pressure sensitive joystick/rocker on the side handle under my right thumb...which also would work in the VF as opposed to just on the LCD and be more accurate for very narrow DOF focus than any one of my fingers touching a 2.8'' or 5'' lcd.
Click to expand...

Joystick would have the benefit of using right hand for focusing (and multitasking while holding the camera) and allowing left hand to be used for better camera angle control (when controlling focus and its speed are not creative intent), and not covering the image with your hand while choosing focus point

but...

it would have a serious downside, which is its responsiveness vs. precision factor. Joystick control depends on linear path which makes it very limited for this purpose. You cannot jump to a focus point, you have to go there. The path of moving to that particular point takes a certain amount of time, which is either fixed or digitally dependent. In most cases joystick would be either too fast or too slow because its speed would almost never be adequate for natural control. If it would be too fast the operator would have trouble precisely choosing focus point, if it would be too slow you'd end up playing video games on your monitor chasing talents across the screen. Rocker would have the same limitations with digital linear control. Digital FF knob is an exception because of its natural rotational control and natural speed control. Slider also has similar advantage.

The advantage of touchscreen focusing is its non-linear focus point selection

but...

- in HH it will cause additional camera shake,
- operator covers the part of the image with his/hers hand
- during touch-screen focusing left hand is not used for two handed camera control
- its control will be very limited on smaller touch screens

that's why I suggested...

a touchpad (cca 2") under the thumb on the handle, which would pretty much take care of all the issues and it would allow very intuitive focusing and natural and precise manual focus tracking.
 
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Get these suckers to market already, I'm itching to play with one. 2/3" without compromises is good enough for me.
 
Paul Spurrier said:
I'm sorry if I'm being repetitive and boring, but...

I've asked a few times on this thread if there is going to be a PL mount adapter for the Scarlet.

Three other people have asked as well.

But there has been no answer.

No PL mount adapter is mentioned in the Nov 30 update or price list.

This would surely be the most useful adapter, given the easy availability of 16mm lenses.

(The Scarlet will come with a mini-PL mount, which I understand is not the same.)

Can anyone confirm that we will be able to use 16mm glass?

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul
Unless something have changed recently, I had a confirmation few months ago from Jim that yes Scarlet 2/3 will have PL mount.
I am also very concern about it as I have invested $5.800 in S16 lenses to go on my scarlet.
 
Peter Osinski said:
While I do understand your frustration, what I think Tim is trying to say is you get what you get.

In october we all though we were getting Scarlet Specs, now people find out they have to wait for info on the s35 and ff35 models. But at least you got a supposed date right?

Obviously a lot of info is missing. For instance,

1) prices of any kind of AC adapter for scarlet
2) SSD prices
3) delivery dates for other mounts (B4, C, MiniRED)
4) number 21 on the specification sheet

just to name a few

Look, you know the basic abilities of the Scarlet line, specifically the 2/3" range. The S35 Scarlet brain is going to be $7000 you know that. You know the prices of most of the modules.

Really, things can only get better for you. Maybe increased data rates, frame rates, who knows. But you did get enough info to plan for the approximate costs of a set up so go run with that
Click to expand...

Peter, I think you are being very nice in trying to empathize with Clayton's issue, but I think what Tim was really trying to do was manage some expectations.

While I love the interaction with RED, and getting these updates from Jim, Jarred, Stuart, Graham, Deanan and the rest of the crew the unfortunate side effect is that it breeds some unfair expectations among a small, but vocal, few. The simple fact of the matter is that we are 5-8 months from the release of Scarlet and we already know a great deal about how it will look, feel and operate.


Clayton, how far in advance did you know the specs of the venerable 5D and 7D before the release date? I'm guessing it wasn't 5-8 months. If you can't wait to buy a camera, don't wait; go buy what you need. If you have a specific question, ask NICELY and I'm sure one of the crew here will do their utmost to get you an answer (as far as they know what that answer is at this point). I just think the way you are phrasing your requests is a little disrespectful to the incredibly hard work RED is putting forth and the unprecedented transparency with which they are conducting it.
 
albert rudnicki said:
Paul
Unless something have changed recently, I had a confirmation few months ago from Jim that yes Scarlet 2/3 will have PL mount.
I am also very concern about it as I have invested $5.800 in S16 lenses to go on my scarlet.
Click to expand...

Its critical for us too. Sorry to go on about it.......
 
Jarred Land said:
And since the mount is interchangeable, there will be many options available... we are still deciding which ones to come out with first.
Click to expand...

posted by Jarred earlier in this thread so I don't see why a PL mount for 16/35mm lenses would be ignored.
 
Paul Spurrier said:
I'm sorry if I'm being repetitive and boring, but...

I've asked a few times on this thread if there is going to be a PL mount adapter for the Scarlet.

Three other people have asked as well.

But there has been no answer.

No PL mount adapter is mentioned in the Nov 30 update or price list.

This would surely be the most useful adapter, given the easy availability of 16mm lenses.

(The Scarlet will come with a mini-PL mount, which I understand is not the same.)

Can anyone confirm that we will be able to use 16mm glass?

Paul
Click to expand...

Yes there will be a standard PL mount for Scarlet 2/3rds removable so you can use 35mm and 16mm glass. This is how I shot The Time Tank Revisited with the Scarlet 2/3" Prototype and RED PRO 85mm PRIME remember :)

1259724802.jpg
 
SIZE 8x vs. 2/3

SIZE 8x vs. 2/3

Am I the first person to point out the size of the 8x fixed vs the interchangeable 2/3?

8x may be smaller then the d3 from the front, but it's at least twice as deep! And deeper then the 2/3 interchangeable by a third.

Batt module built it, I/O module Built in... Seems like a lot more of a package, and a lot less of a brain.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
Joystick would have the benefit of using the same hand for focusing and allowing right hand for better camera angle control (when controlling focus and its speed are not creative intent), and not covering the image with your hand while choosing focus point

but...

it would have a serious downside, which is its responsiveness vs. precision factor. Joystick control depends on linear path which makes it very limited for this purpose. You cannot jump to a focus point, you have to go there. The path of moving to that particular point takes a certain amount of time, which is either fixed or digitally dependent. In most cases joystick would be either too fast or too slow because its speed would almost never be adequate for natural control. If it would be too fast the operator would have trouble precisely choosing focus point, if it would be too slow you'd end up playing video games on your monitor chasing talents across the screen.

The advantage of touchscreen focusing is its non-linear focus point selection

but...

- in HH it will cause additional camera shake,
- operator covers the part of the image with his/hers hand
- during touch-screen focusing left hand is not used for two handed camera control

that's why I suggested...

a touchscreen (cca 2") under the thumb on the handle, which pretty much takes care of all the issues and it would allow very intuitive focusing and natural and precise manual focus tracking.
Click to expand...

Good answers, Hrvoje, and I'll try and respond in kind.

While the jumps of a touchscreen are discrete, the actual lens dynamics are continuous. They may be fast but they are continuous. OTOH the joystick idea can be made discrete by using a central button push - ie one moves the X cursor to the desired focus point and then pushes down on the joystick to engage the continuous focusing mechanism and send it to that point..
Also, your idea of having a screen on the side grip the operator has to look away from the main image, which might be more disruptive than using the left hand to touch the screen.

One likes to think that the Red guys are brilliant enough to have thought over all this. Maybe Jared or Stuart will weigh in. Otherwise for run and gun it looks like it's still mostly going manual.

David
 
Very excited about the 2/3" and mini primes, they look like they are going to be awesome. Hopefully a mini-zoom down the road?


I little feedback about the UI...

The new, bold font and graphics look great and I like the bigger, bolder tally graphic but I think that many people would prefer to have the battery and media life displayed in % rather than have an arbitrary visual representation of the life remaining. I rather like the current boxed percentage numbers that change colors.

Also, one of the great current Red One UI features is that the frame is text free and allows for clean shot framing and viewing. It would be great to preserve this feature.

Thanks for listening and great job Red.

1259705913.jpg
 
Hey Milan... dont worry the Battery and Media are both switchable to numbers or graphics..

The Timecode and Clip name are adjustable :)
 
Is there active cooling system? What about noise?

UI looks fantastic :crazy:
 
David Cherniack said:
While the jumps of a touchscreen are discrete, the actual lens dynamics are continuous. They may be fast but they are continuous. OTOH the joystick idea can be made discrete by using a central button push - ie one moves the X cursor to the desired focus point and then pushes down on the joystick to engage the continuous focusing mechanism and send it to that point..
Click to expand...

Makes sense, but I still that it might have some lag issues in responsiveness (by lag I mean total time for human response + joystick control).

David Cherniack said:
Also, your idea of having a screen on the side grip the operator has to look away from the main image, which might be more disruptive than using the left hand to touch the screen.
Click to expand...

I made a mistake in my post. I meant touchpad, not touchscreen, sorry. I corrected that.
 
Will there be a special discount if one wants to buy the 2/3" Fixed Model and the 2/3" Interchangeable brain and the mini-prime set? :emote_hippie:

Would be nice for sure. :biggrin5:
 
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