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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

November 30th Announcement Feedback

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I am still waiting for the price of the SSD, price wise its a close race I think for SSD and CF media

Side CF Reader - $500
2 x (4x 16GB bundle) - $2800

$3300 for 128GB of flash cards

vs

SSD Module - $1500
128 GB SSD drive - ?

If the SSD drive is $1800 you will have an equal bang for GB buck between the 2 methods but CF cards as stated recently will not be able to handle REDCODE 100

If the 128GB SSD is more than $1800 you will have to decide whether or not the difference is a fair price to shoot higher data rates

we shall see I guess
 
Clayton Burkhart said:
S35:

More Details Sometime.
Click to expand...

Most of the specs are there...especially now that EPIC and SCARLET modules are identical.. only difference is BRAIN... which is the Mysterium X sensor with some FPS limitations...basically a tick below EPIC... and even a Summer 2010 est delivery.
 
I am still waiting for the price of the SSD, price wise its a close race I think for SSD and CF media

Side CF Reader - $500
2 x (4x 16GB bundle) - $2800

$3300 for 128GB of flash cards

vs

SSD Module - $1500
128 GB SSD drive - ?

If the SSD drive is $1800 you will have an equal bang for GB buck between the 2 methods but CF cards as stated recently will not be able to handle REDCODE 100

If the 128GB SSD is more than $1800 you will have to decide whether or not the difference is a fair price to shoot higher data rates

we shall see I guess
Click to expand...

keeping in mind, we don't know what cf cards will or will not be able to handle 6 or 7 months from now (hopefully) when these things start getting in people's hands. Or, what they will cost

later,
Jason
 
Clayton Burkhart said:
S35:

More Details Sometime.
Click to expand...

While I do understand your frustration, what I think Tim is trying to say is you get what you get.

In october we all though we were getting Scarlet Specs, now people find out they have to wait for info on the s35 and ff35 models. But at least you got a supposed date right?

Obviously a lot of info is missing. For instance,

1) prices of any kind of AC adapter for scarlet
2) SSD prices
3) delivery dates for other mounts (B4, C, MiniRED)
4) number 21 on the specification sheet

just to name a few

Look, you know the basic abilities of the Scarlet line, specifically the 2/3" range. The S35 Scarlet brain is going to be $7000 you know that. You know the prices of most of the modules.

Really, things can only get better for you. Maybe increased data rates, frame rates, who knows. But you did get enough info to plan for the approximate costs of a set up so go run with that
 
Jason Ramsey said:
keeping in mind, we don't know what cf cards will or will not be able to handle 6 or 7 months from now (hopefully) when these things start getting in people's hands. Or, what they will cost

later,
Jason
Click to expand...

either way, REDCODE42 is awesome and I think anyone who wants to shoot CF cards should be cool with that.

If new cards get better and can handle REDCODE100 then great. But the thing to remember is that either way if you are going from current CF to new CF or current CF to SSD Module either way you are going to have to shell out more money to get the faster recording medium at some point.
 
I would be perfectly happy with wild speculation on when Scarlet FF35 will be released.

I'm just hoping it doesn't become the next 'r3d trimming' doomed to eternal delays.
 
Peter Osinski said:
either way, REDCODE42 is awesome and I think anyone who wants to shoot CF cards should be cool with that.

If new cards get better and can handle REDCODE100 then great. But the thing to remember is that either way if you are going from current CF to new CF or current CF to SSD Module either way you are going to have to shell out more money to get the faster recording medium at some point.
Click to expand...

i agree...

I've got a lot of decisions to make based on the announcement today. Lots to digest :) all in a good way (my opinion) mind you...

later,
jason
 
Alright I made sure to read ever single one of Jarred's replies before I posted.

I notice, that in every one of the pictures, the bottom, the right side, and the back (without a REDMOTE) are not shown. So I have some rather rudimentary questions that might seem obvious but I would like in concrete. I'm just a little guy among giants here I'm trying to slip by with absolute minimal functionality.

Does the 2/3" Interchangeable Brain have:
On-Brain Storage? (While the pictures would appear to have a Side CF Mount, it confuses me that the Side CF Mount is listed as an accessory elsewhere)
On-Brain Battery Power? (the little circuit board watch batteries don't count ;)
On-Brain Controls? (or will there be adequate controls through the touchscreen or is everything but the recording button dependent on the REDMOTE?)
A standard consumer tripod shoe screwhole thingy (or will there be a mount for that? D:)

And lastly, with a single CF card, will you be able to shoot 120fps/3K or the 150fps burst? (in this case, it doesn't matter if the REDCODE bitrate gets smothered)


Cheers, I couldn't believe how small it was next to the D3!
 
Clayton Burkhart said:
The real questions: How fast will the Scarlet S35 or FF be reading off the sensor, in order to get around rolling shutter? How will it be downscaling to avoid aliasing, moire, artifacts, etc.? These are the solutions that are worth paying for.
Click to expand...

With RED, these are also the last solutions I'd be worrying about.

Graeme Nattress is the man about this stuff. here's some of his test results... http://www.cinematography.net/natress-red-res.html

Also, Sanjin Jukic does tests like nobody's business... Rumour has it an ancient ninja will kill him if he stops. Apparently the ninja gave him some ultimate 2 cam rig in exchange, though. check out some of his tests... http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37715&page=3
 
Peter Osinski said:
Pl mounts come standard....canon and nikon will be very useful on the first released cameras epic-x and epic s35 so it is definitely important they be available when these models come out

I expect the mini-pl mounts will come out at the same time as the scarlet cinema 2/3" as long as the entire set of primes is read by then too.

C mount I would guess be around soon after the release because really all it has to be is a plate that screws onto the front of the camera that has the correct size threading on it.

the nikon and canon mounts mentioned earlier take much more work because they include an interface to utilize electronic nikons and canons.
Click to expand...

Are you certain that 'PL mounts come as standard'?
Everything I've read here says that the Scarlet will come with a min-pl mount which does not seem to be compatible with a standard PL mount.
No mention has been made of a PL mount - only mini-pl, canon and Nikon.

Paul
 
jarred answered a question I put up on the october 30th discussion to say that as of now the regular pl mount comes standard

mini-pl will probably be a sub-$500 mount you buy later. It is not electronic which means is why i think it will cost less than the more advanced mounts
 
Look, why would someone pay 4X more for the Epic, unless there were some serious differences? Assuming that just because we have the specs for the Epic we know what the Scarlet will do, is probably not a good idea. I appreciate your points of view, but as I said a 2/3" camera announcement is not what a large portion of the market is waiting to hear or even interested in. DSLR's have changed the playing field in terms of the optics. You have a huge customer base just waiting in the wings now. They are not going back to 2/3".

I gotta say in all my years of looking at announcements and press releases, I have never seen:

"More details sometime."

Kinda takes the cake.

Not trying to be a naysayer here, but piecing together information is exactly what I want to avoid when considering dropping $10-12000. I think that's reasonable don't you?

Have a good one, one and all.
 
PL mount is standard on S35 EPIC and S35 SCARLET cameras.

Mini-PL standard on 2/3 Removable. Sorry for the confusion Peter.
 
Clayton Burkhart said:
Look, why would someone pay 4X more for the Epic, unless there were some serious differences? Assuming that just because we have the specs for the Epic we know what the Scarlet will do, is probably not a good idea. I appreciate your points of view, but as I said a 2/3" camera announcement is not what a large portion of the market is waiting to hear or even interested in. DSLR's have changed the playing field in terms of the optics. You have a huge customer base just waiting in the wings now. They are not going back to 2/3".

I gotta say in all my years of looking at announcements and press releases, I have never seen:

"More details sometime."

Kinda takes the cake.

Not trying to be a naysayer here, but piecing together information is exactly what I want to avoid when considering dropping $10-12000. I think that's reasonable don't you?

Have a good one, one and all.
Click to expand...

I agree with you Clayton
But this is what makes Red unique
If it werent for their approach to Digital cinema
much of the things if not all, that make up Red and the future DSMC
would not exsist.
It takes a different breed to make such an awesome thing realized
I think we all have come to enjoy this adventure
If not, you dont have to tune in, its not tv, its the internet.
Drop $10-12 on something else and get the same old organized non modular
un-upgradeable, soon to need to be replaced gadget or gizmo ; ) lol
I think the funniest thing is how much we have all begged for details
and Red has delivered above and beyond what was asked
and people like me and others are still shooting out questions lol
questions that need to be answered ; )
Its getting cliche
but I sincerely hope the future holds more companies with the same
business model.

Anyway, Like I said, I agree with you, I would like the details of the FF35
and I really hope the prices for Epics are as generous as these Scarlet updates
But I guess I'll have to wait :emote_popcorn:
 
Mike Bozulich said:
Sad news. Now Scarlet fixed-lens is completely unaffordable for me! Nice idea to increase the cost by over 25% in this crap economy. Oh well, now I can safely move on without having to wonder if I might be able to afford one. Don't get me wrong, it's a brilliant camera, it's just not one I (and thousands of others) will be able to afford. Looks like students and low budget filmmakers (NOT PROS) will carry on Red-free. If you're a professional filmmaker (i.e. you make money with your films) you need not reply. I'm addressing those of us without deep pockets to afford such gear. Sad times indeed. Perhaps some day Jim will get back to that camera for the 'Hoochie Mamas' (i.e 'the rest of us').
Click to expand...
For some perspective, keep in mind (current prices from B&H Photo) --

Canon XH-G1s $6,999.00
Canon XL-H1a $5,499.00
Canon XL-H1s 7,999.00
JVC GY-HD250U $10,995.00 (16x Fujinon lens)
Panasonic AG-HPX170 $5,199.00
Panasonic AG-HVX200A $5,499.00 - 1/3" chip with weaker codec
Sony HVR-Z5U $4,095.00
Sony HVR-Z7U$5,279.00
Sony PMW-EX1R $6,299.00
Sony DSR-400L 2/3-Inch (the only 2/3" camera on this list) $11,992.00 (2.5-Inch Color LCD Screen and 17x IF Lens)
 
Jarred Land said:
PL mount is standard on S35 EPIC and S35 SCARLET cameras.

Mini-PL standard on 2/3 Removable. Sorry for the confusion Peter.
Click to expand...

Just need to clarify. We wish to use PL on 2/3, (for S16mm glass) I am assuming that this will work OK. This is super critical to use please confirm this is OK and there are no problems.

Also are there any B4 mount plans.

thanks,

Dave
 
Jarred Land said:
PL mount is standard on S35 EPIC and S35 SCARLET cameras.

Mini-PL standard on 2/3 Removable. Sorry for the confusion Peter.
Click to expand...

well then, looks like I'm going to need to know the price of the standard pl mount
 
CF card data rates

CF card data rates

Jason Ramsey said:
keeping in mind, we don't know what cf cards will or will not be able to handle 6 or 7 months from now (hopefully) when these things start getting in people's hands. Or, what they will cost

later,
Jason
Click to expand...

From what I understand, CF's PATA signaling tops out at 133MB/s with 100MB/s being the practical limit due to signaling overhead. But not to worry as SATA-based CFast is poised to supplant it. CFast has a maximum data rate of 375MB/s with a practical limit of about 300MB/s. CFast is still a rather nascent technology at this point, but there are already some pretty fast cards out there. Red has confirmed that they are working on CFast modules without being any more specific than that. I've got my fingers crossed that there will be a CFast side module when Scarlet launches or shortly thereafter. If not, there is at least some hope of recording REDCODE 100 to a card in the future.
 
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