Nov. 3rd take 2...

[Bjørn Vermo]

...
I have to admit, respect to Apple and Red, and comparisons that are usually made, but I have to say I don’t really think of RED as the Apple of the cinema world, I tend to think of it as RED is the RED of the cinema world.

Credit where credit is due I think.

Quite. RED is an honourable company. They value function over form, even though they have good design. They make robust products rather than stuff designed to break. They place customer values above shareholder profits (a nice benefit from being privately owned), and they do not manufacture in a Chinese sweatshop.

Not that there is anything wrong with Chinese manufacture per se, but some actors are certainly subpar.

 

[Marko Hocevar]

I get a warm feeling around my heart when I imagine the static page with the specs listed on Nov 3rd. It will be like in the good old 2009 but with the BUY NOW button! :thumbup:

 

[David Battistella]

i just paid 58.000$ for my EpicM package. Will I be crying comes november 3rd?

Why would you cry about owning the most advanced digital motion imaging system in the world for less than a 2k competitor that does half as much?
Do you know what you have in your hands?

I do not think RED will canibilize it's camera lineup, the way Apple ate into computer sales with the iphone and tablets.

I think you will be first in line for the immediate FF monstro sensor upgrade they are going to announce for EPIC M owners.... (shit, did I say that....there I go speculating again!)

David

 

[Brian Boyer]

I don't know any more than anyone else about what RED has planned for Scarlet but I'm pretty confident that some of the speculation regarding target market and price are way off.

First, I still contend RED DID NOT shift their focus from cinema to non-cinema uses for Scarlet. If anything, they enhanced or augmented the cinema focus with features that also appeal to non-cinema shooters. If you feel I'm wrong, please provide examples of someone from RED backing up your claim. As I've stated before, Scarlet's last announced specs are NOT an indication. They've ALWAYS maintained those specs were suitable for and geared towards cinema uses.

For those who haven't, please watch this video of TED at Sundance 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-Q7iawyDXY

Secondly, $15K minimum? Jim said he didn't expect them to EVER be out of backorder on the Scarlet. I'm sorry but Scarlets are not going to fly off the shelves at $15K minimum any more than the original R1 did at $17,500. This is not to say that there won't be a version of Scarlet for that price, but it won't be the base model.

In order for Scarlet to have constant backorder status some version of it HAS to be priced pretty aggressively. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Epic-S is Scarlet again. I know it hasn't been explicitly stated, but I don't know why people find it so hard to believe that RED wouldn't change the name back to Scarlet, even if it's in an Epic body. Who knows? It may even be called the Scarlet-E.

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

i just paid 58.000$ for my EpicM package. Will I be crying comes november 3rd?

Sure, but they will be tears of joy. If you do the type of work that requires the quality the M makes possible, then it should pay for itself fairly quickly. November 3 will only present more tools with which to make money.

 

[Mohamed Younis]

Why would you cry about owning the most advanced digital motion imaging system in the world for less than a 2k competitor that does half as much?
Do you know what you have in your hands?

I do not think RED will canibilize it's camera lineup, the way Apple ate into computer sales with the iphone and tablets.

I think you will be first in line for the immediate FF monstro sensor upgrade they are going to announce for EPIC M owners.... (shit, did I say that....there I go speculating again!)

David

I'm not worried about RED tbh. I'm more worried about what Canon has to announce.

 

[David Battistella]

I'm not worried about RED tbh. I'm more worried about what Canon has to announce.

we like you in the family. Why would you leave such a nice family?

Don't you know that no matter what Canon does has no affect on the tool you choose to do your work?

Canon can't touch RED becasue RED is RED.

David

 

[Paul Ellington]

www.kickstarter.com/projects/dukeellington/twin-graves

If you guys could spread the word, it's being shot on my EPIC M and my friend is coming in with a B CAM ... NEED BUDGET but spread the word... ALL RED ALL DAY, KODAK HATES ME ... oh well...

 

[Phil Anderson]

Thank you! My mother had MS, so far it looks benign whatever that means, but even if it's not, I will fight it. Brain tumors actually are easier to treat than some other tumors or cancers.

I'm no doctor, but a best friend is an MD/PhD neurosurgeon. From what I understand malignant cancer that starts in the brain is one of the most difficult to treat. The fact your tumor is benign is potentially good news.

Secondly, $15K minimum? Jim said he didn't expect them to EVER be out of backorder on the Scarlet. I'm sorry but Scarlet's are not going to fly off the shelves at $15K minimum any more than the original R1 did at $17,500.

You bring up an excellent point that I think hasn't really been mentioned. As someone noted, if Jim expects to forever be in (or near) backorder, that means the sales will be so high, and so fast, they won't be able to keep up. This makes me think the Scarlet we're expecting to come - the mini package Ted's been showing - may indeed hit $6k. And have better specs than what we thought.

I don't know that Epic-S will now be Scarlet-S though. But it certainly is possible because we've heard very little on Epic-S, or Scarlet interchangeable. It's quite possible there will be one camera replacing the two, Red will call it Scarlet, it will come in around $12k, and blow the new Canon, Sony F3 out of the water. We'll soon see. Two weeks actually!

I also agree with your earlier post about how there are a lot of people out there who would gladly take a 2/3" Scarlet to shoot cinema, over an AF100, FS100, or any DSLR with a larger chip, simply because Scarlet's other features are so superior. This is quite possible. But Scarlet also has the ability to kill a great deal of other 2/3" cameras out there currently in use for docs, events, spots, broadcast, ENG, etc.

 

[Brian Boyer]

I don't know that Epic-S will now be Scarlet-S though.

Scarlet-E, actually. The "S" in Epic-S was for Scarlet. The "E" in Scarlet-E would be for Epic. That is, if they put Scarlet innards in an Epic body, which is essentially what the Epic-S was, with a few enhancements. Of course, these are merely possible names. What we're really talking about is the configuration that's closest to what we last heard was called Epic-S.

I also agree with your earlier post about how there are a lot of people out there who would gladly take a 2/3" Scarlet to shoot cinema, over an AF100, FS100, or any DSLR with a larger chip, simply because Scarlet's other features are so superior. This is quite possible. But Scarlet also has the ability to kill a great deal of other 2/3" cameras out there currently in use for docs, events, spots, broadcast, ENG, etc.

No doubt.

 

[Mohamed Younis]

we like you in the family. Why would you leave such a nice family?

Don't you know that no matter what Canon does has no affect on the tool you choose to do your work?

Canon can't touch RED becasue RED is RED.

David

I have no intention of ever leaving this family (cult). I make a living primarily off renting my equipment and working on them. If Canon releases a camera that is cheap and can do what my Epic or Red1 can do, I'll find it hard to rent my REDs.....

 

[Dave_S]

I guess there will be a camera around $18000 which will be best suitable for people wishing to make professional cinema movie and who can't afford Epic x.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

Hi Dave,

I see that as too high a price point. 3k for 3k is obviously long gone.
An 18K Scarlet release would be for all intents and purposes throwing away the dream and mission statement of democratising cinema. Your talking pretty much another RED ONE - which many Indi's can't afford.
And so will continue battling on with FS100's, DSLR's and whatever canon offers up.

RED are going head to head with Canon they have said. And I actually think RED knows our needs far better than we actually do ourselves. Not trying to kiss ass. I just genuinely believe this.

But the guessing game is indeed fun, and my best guess is it'll either be 7K if it's as some believe and still the 2/3rd fixed. WIth a 9k or 12K upgraded package option.
Or 10K odd if it's more of an Epic S - with an upgrade package of 14k.

But who knows with RED. They could do 4K for 4k (Brain only) for all I know, just to make every one completely wet themselves. Or as you say go 18K, where most will look with envy, a chunk will buy and be in rapture and another bigger chunk will probably go into RED rage mode.

I think RED has our back, and always has, and NOV 3 will prove it.

 

[David Dennis]

Secondly, $15K minimum? Jim said he didn't expect them to EVER be out of backorder on the Scarlet. I'm sorry but Scarlets are not going to fly off the shelves at $15K minimum any more than the original R1 did at $17,500. This is not to say that there won't be a version of Scarlet for that price, but it won't be the base model.

But they did fly off the shelves. My best recollection is that when RED ONE was first shipped, it took over a year for them to get out of backorder.

D

 

[Phil Anderson]

That's true David, but if you look back through some of the threads on Reduser, there are many posts referring to the development and completion of Red's assembly in California, and how quickly and efficiently they can now put together cameras. It's quite the different company from when Red One was released in beta, or alpha even. Even Jannard himself will tell you they had serious growing pains. Red is a much more refined company now.

 

[Brian Boyer]

But they did fly off the shelves. My best recollection is that when RED ONE was first shipped, it took over a year for them to get out of backorder.

D

Jim wrote "My bet is that after our November 3rd announcement... we will never, ever, be out of back-order. Ever. Really. Never... ever."

I wrote "any more than the original R1 did at $17,500." Although I'm sure there's a bit of hyperbole at work on Jim's part, there would be no need to make a comment like this if sales were going to be comparable to the R1 which, as you point out, is no longer backordered.

Jim has stated he suspects it will be the biggest announcement in RED's history. Some people find it difficult to believe it could be bigger than their original announcement of the R1, yet he insists it will be.

I don't think a $15K base camera is going to make the splash he says is coming.

And, as Phil pointed out, RED's US based manufacturing capabilities of today may be much more efficient than when they were a start-up company producing its first product using an overseas manufacturing plant 3 or 4 years ago. That should be taken into account when considering backorder status.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

I doubt they go to high in price, obviously I don't want them to, to be able to afford it. I agree with what alot of Lliam says. I'm sure there are surprises, hopefully additions in value to either lower the price and or add value to the already great price.

I for one still plan on it being a 2/3 camera until stated otherwise. I'm sure there would be ways they could make it different than the Epic without it totally cannibalizing Epic and R1 sales. But 2/3 and 3K really seems to be the way they do that to me. I know many in the Scarlet community that are pretty much maxed out at around 10K-12K for full budgets on November the 3rd. They've stated that all around. I really think RED knows this and will be competitive with what is out there in price range, but completely blow them out of the water when it comes to quality and specs, as they already did with the pre-released Scarlet info. I even think the fixed would totally annihilate the a good portion fs100, af100, dslr, and ex1 crowd simply because of it's specs.

That before any changes that have happened (always for the better). I really think there will big news for everyone that day. I can barely focus at work