Next Steps for Scarlet Owners??

[Daniel Pearson]

I'm sticking with MX Scarlet. I think this place whips people into a frenzy thinking their camera is shit and out of date and that they NEED the next thing. My Scarlet has paid for itself and the images still look amazing, so no need to upgrade.

 

[Vladimir Druts]

I've been in the exact predicament and have decided to stick with MX, possibly upgrade to Epic MX for the slightly better noise floor and faster frames. Not sure how I feel about Dragon to be honest and Weapon is very gimmicky.

 

[Samir Patel]

Well I'm tapped out. If business goes through an upswing I'll try to upgrade my scarlet to epic. Then hold. Eventually will buy a weapon outright but upgrading makes no sense. Also more interested in building up a lens collection.

 

[Glen Powell]

The Scarlets are back from their L.A. vacation and they are all grown up...

 

[Ryan Emanuel]

Terry I think you've been the voice of this dilemma. I am and have been in the same boat. For me post is the biggest factor. Even though there will be a new RCX that uses more of the GPU of your computer, I'm sure you will need a computer with beefy specs to handle especially dragon footage, so with even the latest MBP a Rocket or Rocket-X for Dragon footage would be a welcome help especially if your like me and already have $5k plus already into a Rocket. So it's either Scarlet to a very capable Epic MX and still be able to use the Rocket I already have or Scarlet Dragon and have a Red Rocket and that it will be completely useless with Dragon footage (Please somebody tell me that I'm wrong and that something has changed on this front).

Last night I saw the trailer "The Age of Adeline" then IMDB it and saw that it was shot with Dragon i'm like "Geez, I want a dragon!!" Then when I saw the trailer for "Serena" starring Bradley Cooper and Jennifer Lawrence which was shot on Epic MX, i'm like "If Epic MX was good enough to shoot this with, what would I have to complain about if a Epic MX was the only camera I could have for the rest of my life?!?!"

With that said, the price dropping back down and the fact of having the OPTION go forward has basically had me make up my mind to go Scarlet Dragon. NOW to your point about the SSD, the current 1.8 system is fine for current Dragon specs so I'll roll with it for now and if I do take the option to "Weaponize" the mini mag transition will just be something i'll have to factor in when upgrading, the current 1.8 mags are fine for Scarlet Dragon now.

I wouldn't use Age of Adeline as an example for dragon, the DP and Director fought hard to shoot Alexa and the studio that Co-produced forced the production to shoot dragon. Check it out in the latest American Cinematographer. The May issue made me really uneasy about Red. 75 percent of articles have DP's saying "We tested all the high end digital formats and chose Alexa because it looked the best" Then there were two Red productions in the May issue. The DP from Daredevil's reason for choosing red was it was the only 4k camera at the time and Netflix required 4k. Rarely do I read DP's say that the Red beats out all other cameras. The DP from Ex Machina was displeased with the Dragon's reproduction of colors for landscapes and went f65 instead. They would have went Alexa but the lens package was not fully compatible. I saw the trailer for Age of Adeline and saw a close up with Blake Lively were she had patchy rosey checks that were not flattering that I get some times and cannot completely remove from Dragon footage. I feel like the issue on Dragon is getting burned, 95 percent of your footage will look amazing but theres a couple shots that will not be able to be fixed even with 6k RAW. I just don't like having to cater to the camera, the camera should be catering to you.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Check it out in the latest American Cinematographer. The May issue made me really uneasy about Red. 75 percent of articles have DP's saying "We tested all the high end digital formats and chose Alexa because it looked the best" Then there were two Red productions in the May issue. The DP from Daredevil's reason for choosing red was it was the only 4k camera at the time and Netflix required 4k. Rarely do I read DP's say that the Red beats out all other cameras.

I am not stating that AC Mag is biased, but you might consider collecting info from more than one source if you want a more broad sampling of opinions.

 

[Mark T Workman]

Honestly, I am still just a bit on the fence, although I have my Dragon upgrade order in.

What I'm going to do first (besides try to get a little more shooting in!) is to place an order for an SSD boot drive for Windows 8.1. The new RESOLVE version 12 will require this and I feel it is a smart move for either camera...



Good luck and good shooting!

 

[Jamon Lewis]

I am a new Scarlet Dragon owner. I shot a short film in broad daylight with the Scarlet MX with excellent results. I couldn't believe how well it held the harsh highlights, the detail in the shadows, and how stunning the graded footage looked. I had never shot with a camera this capable. I was all set to buy a used MX until I saw this http://indiecinemaacademy.com/red-epic-dragon-vs-red-epic-mx-hype-real-part-01-video/ Right around 6:00 he shows the high end roll off compared to MX and Alexa. It's pretty substantial. That sold me.

With the little time I've had with it so far, the skin tones appear better to me but honestly, in daylight, I thought the skin tones on MX were perfect.
The new Dragon was way more than I had hoped to pay for a Scarlet but I'm glad I did it. The images are amazing

Thanks for posting this. I'm not sure how this comparison could have been MORE comprehensive and clear. So the latitude gain mx-dragon is basically ONLY on the top end of things, I guess the "native 2000 ISO" is with the LLO. This is definitely significant for me as a big part of me deciding to upgrade was based on the better low light performance. :glare:

 

[Glen Powell]

Thanks for posting this. I'm not sure how this comparison could have been MORE comprehensive and clear. So the latitude gain mx-dragon is basically ONLY on the top end of things, I guess the "native 2000 ISO" is with the LLO. This is definitely significant for me as a big part of me deciding to upgrade was based on the better low light performance. :glare:

You should really read this thread - very in depth discussion about exposing Dragon: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?126194-Native-Dragon-ISO%85once-and-for-all!

 

[Jamon Lewis]

You should really read this thread - very in depth discussion about exposing Dragon: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?126194-Native-Dragon-ISO%85once-and-for-all!

I used the " " facetiously. I shoot enough with MX. When shooting I've exposed at 800 and ended up processing at 320 so I completely get the concept of protecting highlights, how & why to expose, yadda yadda.

The point is & what this test shows that in exactly the same situation how each camera acts. So forget about "Native ISO" or any technically sophisticated concept, as per this test MX did better in low light. In fact I talked to a veteran DP friend of mine who does a lot of high end stuff is a old film guy, who is technical enough but more practical thanks anything. He has been with RED from the beginning, shill have his RED ONE and all. He shoots mostly table top stuff in controlled environments and has access to all the light he'll ever need. This was there first time I'd talked to him since he'd gotten his 2 Epics upgraded to Dragon. I asked him what he thought about Dragon, "It's grainy" was his reply.

I've already paid for my Dragon upgrade and don't plan on NOT going through with it. MUCH better highlight roll off, better color and compression are good enough reasons to upgrade, so it's not a deal breaker, I just want to know what i'm dealing with and unless i'm missing something this test made it pretty clear.

 

[Mark T Workman]

I used the " " facetiously. I shoot enough with MX. When shooting I've exposed at 800 and ended up processing at 320 so I completely get the concept of protecting highlights, how & why to expose, yadda yadda.

The point is & what this test shows that in exactly the same situation how each camera acts. So forget about "Native ISO" or any technically sophisticated concept, as per this test MX did better in low light. In fact I talked to a veteran DP friend of mine who does a lot of high end stuff is a old film guy, who is technical enough but more practical thanks anything. He has been with RED from the beginning, shill have his RED ONE and all. He shoots mostly table top stuff in controlled environments and has access to all the light he'll ever need. This was there first time I'd talked to him since he'd gotten his 2 Epics upgraded to Dragon. I asked him what he thought about Dragon, "It's grainy" was his reply.

I've already paid for my Dragon upgrade and don't plan on NOT going through with it. MUCH better highlight roll off, better color and compression are good enough reasons to upgrade, so it's not a deal breaker, I just want to know what i'm dealing with and unless i'm missing something this test made it pretty clear.

Good points! Tough decision! I feel pretty much the same way Jamon!

I would add I am also becoming a bit more concerned about upgrading beyond the production capacity of the computers I currently own and having to transcode everything down before ediiting. There is also the issue of dealing with "increased audio noise?" beyond that. The Epic MX will work with what I have now and prices are coming down! It's looking more and more like I'll have to build a whole new Resolve computer to run Dragon and MX as I don't see Adobe CC solving the horse power issues to my satisfaction or issuing a Dragon patch for CS6. I did request that after my latest Adobe software failures though!

On the flip side, I really do want this Scarlet to simply be the best that it can be so I may just do it anyway, LOL!

 

[Eric Santiago]

Good points! Tough decision! I feel pretty much the same way Jamon!

I would add I am also becoming a bit more concerned about upgrading beyond the production capacity of the computers I currently own and having to transcode everything down before ediiting.

Curious as to how low the ROCKETS will go for soon with all these upgrades.
Im still enjoying my old Mac Pro maybe its time I give my ROCKET a twin

On the flip side, I really do want this Scarlet to simply be the best that it can be so I may just do it anyway, LOL!

I love my Scarlet and the workflow Ive learned to grow with.
For the cost and upkeep, its very good for my financial health

 

[Scot Yount]

I'm sticking with MX Scarlet. I think this place whips people into a frenzy thinking their camera is shit and out of date and that they NEED the next thing. My Scarlet has paid for itself and the images still look amazing, so no need to upgrade.

+1. You know I have been thinking the same thing. As an example, there has been a lot of hype amongst some of my friends about the fact that Canon released the new 4K C300. Let's see. It shoots an H.264 codec in an MXF wrapper, (XF-AVC
4K at 10bit 422 (410Mbit/s) – 40 mins to a 128GB card) can only record RAW with an external recorder and costs $16,000. My MX Scarlet is from 2011 and beats it out on many fronts in terms of potential image quality. I know the Canon has XLR connectors and built in ND and lots of things (cheap media) that my camera doesn't. I know it is the go to doc camera for run and gun and all the upgrades make it better. But no where near better enough for me to run out and buy one. I know that people always want to think that tech just marches on. But we aren't talking cell phones here. I think we are a very long way from my camera being so obsolete that people will laugh at it the way they do a VHS camera. RED has been ahead of the game long enough that it is easy to think you are being left behind if you don't upgrade to Dragon, or set your sights on Weapon. But, you are not.

 

[Eric Santiago]

On a different note, can the Scarlet produce a 4K feed to the Atomos or similar?

Sorry I was at NAB and this one escaped me

 

[Mark T Workman]

Curious as to how low the ROCKETS will go for soon with all these upgrades.
Im still enjoying my old Mac Pro maybe its time I give my ROCKET a twin

Yes! Especially wondering about an external rocket for my Mac Book Pro for FCP X? Anybody doing this?

 

[Eric Santiago]

Curious as to how low the ROCKETS will go for soon with all these upgrades.
Im still enjoying my old Mac Pro maybe its time I give my ROCKET a twin

Yes! Especially wondering about an external rocket for my Mac Book Pro for FCP X? Anybody doing this?

If you have TB2 then get a Sonnet PCI box.

We have a few at work and they are awesome.

yes it helps

 

[Demetri Zuev]

I'd upgrade my Scarlet to Epic MX in a heartbeat if I were in your shoes guys. Which I did a year ago and never regretted this decision.

I was always feeling a bit limited shooting with Scarlet and after I started working with Epic I felt that a true freedom is here.

 

[Mark T Workman]

If you have TB2 then get a Sonnet PCI box.

We have a few at work and they are awesome.

yes it helps

Ahh Ha! Sonnet PCI box! Perhaps with a dual boot to really compare plain old CS6 with FCP X plus my one CC app., Ae CC??!!

I'm already stuck with these, LOL!

 

[Mark T Workman]

One other thing I have to remind myself to ask about here is sensor replacement?

As we turn the upgrade issue over and over, the MX chips are being phased out so what happens when your chip goes bad if you haven't upgraded? Is the manufacturing of MX chips to cease as well? Yes?

This was one of my early thoughts in the affirmative, among principle reasons I bought the upgrade with the idea of transcoding in the first place! Dragon sensors will be around a lot longer than MX. Of this, I have little doubt.

 

[Mark T Workman]

Not sure I was as crystal clear as I could be here.

My advice to my fellow Scarlet users who wish to stay MX work flow (for really good reasons I totally get!) is to look into purchase of an additional MX sensor to replace your old one.

I have decided I'm leaving MX in the short term but may yet return as I have a working system for it! If I was to buy another Scarlet or Epic MX, I would make sure I had a back up sensor in case things go south!