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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Sony PXW-FS7 4k camera

sony has the cameras, the industry insight and the best sensors and they are starting to put it all together. and they are not afraid to shake things up in terms of price. if i was an F5 owner i might be upset but then again this is getting so cheap that you can buy one anyway or look at it as the price of an upgrade and have 2 cameras. this is far from over.
potential scarlet buyers will take a VERY hard long look at this one.
 
I won't lie, this is a really interesting camera to me. The new lenses they've released with power zoom and maintained focus are extremely amazing as well. I wonder if RED would be interested in making an E-Mount?
 
E-Mount supports SpeedBooster too; so if you've got FF lenses you could get FF35 field of view and a stop extra light... And all for $1500 less than the Scarlet-Brain-Only upgrade price....Yeah, I definitely don't feel too bad for F5 owners.
 
Well it's official, 14 stops is now nothing special. We have camera's costing $2,000 that have 14 stops of dynamic range all the way up through the higher price ranges. Don't get me wrong, 14 stops is great, but now it's time to push for 16+ since everyone is landing at 14 stops.

This footage looks really good. Sony has a way of creating sharp images without being overly harsh. From watching that footage it looks creamy yet detailed (You can see the detail in the mats). Looks good and at a great price point, color is good. I wonder how well it fares in low light. If it is in fact an A7s sensor then it will do well. If it's an F5 sensor then it will do well at 4000ISO (since it's native is 2000ISO).
 
Matt Ryan said:
Well it's official, 14 stops is now nothing special. We have camera's costing $2,000 that have 14 stops of dynamic range all the way up through the higher price ranges. Don't get me wrong, 14 stops is great, but now it's time to push for 16+ since everyone is landing at 14 stops.

This footage looks really good. Sony has a way of creating sharp images without being overly harsh. From watching that footage it looks creamy yet detailed (You can see the detail in the mats). Looks good and at a great price point, color is good. I wonder how well it fares in low light. If it is in fact an A7s sensor then it will do well. If it's an F5 sensor then it will do well at 4000ISO (since it's native is 2000ISO).
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some very good points! the strange thing is that dragon was announced as 16 stops at 2000 iso and both numbers are very much up for debate, especially around here. sony puts these numbers out and they are spot on. we know from the F5/F55 (and evendslrs) that sony can (easily) do 14 stops and same with iso.
i really hope the new OLPF kit can help put dragon firmly in the 15 stop 1000 iso range, which it almost seems like it has to be now.
 
For once, a modular add-on that hits the sweet spot in function and price. V-mount adapter (no wires or tools necessary), TC, 12-bit 4K RAW output, and 10-bit ProRes proxies in a form factor that makes a ton of sense. It doesn't cripple the camera to not own it, but would take the camera to the next level if you chose to do so. Something you can't do with a C100->300 or 300->500

This is a really well designed camera. Servo zoom, 3D LUT capabilities when shooting S-Log, built in ND, internal 4K recording, up to 240fps overcrank, XLR inputs, HDMI and 2x SDI outputs, It really takes the wind (if there was any) out of URSA's sails and crushes the C500.

Wonder what's next from Canon? They'd have to cut the current C100/300/500 prices in half to compete with this.
 
Doug Beatty said:
For once, a modular add-on that hits the sweet spot in function and price. V-mount adapter (no wires or tools necessary), TC, 12-bit 4K RAW output, and 10-bit ProRes proxies in a form factor that makes a ton of sense. It doesn't cripple the camera to not own it, but would take the camera to the next level if you chose to do so. Something you can't do with a C100->300 or 300->500

This is a really well designed camera. Servo zoom, 3D LUT capabilities when shooting S-Log, built in ND, internal 4K recording, up to 240fps overcrank, XLR inputs, HDMI and 2x SDI outputs, It really takes the wind (if there was any) out of URSA's sails and crushes the C500.

Wonder what's next from Canon? They'd have to cut the current C100/300/500 prices in half to compete with this.
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They don't care. They make their money on the glass.
In the language of Mcdonald's when it comes to profit:
Its aint about the burger, its about the fries.
 
Doug Beatty said:
Wonder what's next from Canon? They'd have to cut the current C100/300/500 prices in half to compete with this.
Click to expand...

I just checked the latest prices of Scarlet-X -- ~$8k for the brain-only, and ~$14k for a barely (2xRV and 1x64gb) shootable package ... Even the BT Scarlet-X's value pales in comparison to the FS7 if it holds up to its predecessors. Think about it: No NDs, no XLRs, heavier, worse battery-life, worse low-light, worse dynamic range, not nearly as ergonomic, not nearly as good over cranking options, more expensive accessories, not nearly as good world-wide support... I mean, maybe RED should also be considering a healthy price reduction (for both Scarlet-X and Dragon).
 
RED can't play ball at lower prices. The profits have to come from somewhere and a price drop in one product area means increases in another.
 
About Sony having the look Im not sure about that.

Have you seen F55 stuff ...seems overly sharpened, overly saturated.....it's the Sony TV look. Maybe Ive been looking at poorly graded/shot stuff but the F55 is not a great look imo. However the F65 is another camera entirely.
 
Going back to the Scarlet v FS7 debate, it's a killer deal (bearing in mind prices have not yet been set in stone). The camera looks solid from head to toe and really affordable and a hell of a lot lighter. I shot a doc recently for Aljazeera English on the Scarlet and it looks great, but I have also suffered a fair bit legging my Petrol rucksack at 2,000 meters altitude near the border with the Congo (http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2014/04/justice-seekers-201449105827945155.html).

RED is solid but very heavy for doc work, or solo shooting. This Sony camera fills that gap perfectly together with what appears to be a great sensor and maybe without the crop factor of the RED. For feature/drama work I love my Scarlet and I still haven't found a camera that offers you so much in terms of customising your guides and your presets, etc. But I also love the cinematic dimension it allows you to bring to doc work. I would like to know more about the Sony on this front. But upgrading to the Scarlet Dragon? I don't think so. And in a year's time, will I still have my old Scarlet if I have a camera that is lighter and does more? Maybe not.
 
Mike P. said:
I just checked the latest prices of Scarlet-X -- ~$8k for the brain-only, and ~$14k for a barely (2xRV and 1x64gb) shootable package ... Even the BT Scarlet-X's value pales in comparison to the FS7 if it holds up to its predecessors. Think about it: No NDs, no XLRs, heavier, worse battery-life, worse low-light, worse dynamic range, not nearly as ergonomic, not nearly as good over cranking options, more expensive accessories, not nearly as good world-wide support... I mean, maybe RED should also be considering a healthy price reduction (for both Scarlet-X and Dragon).
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The Sony doesn't offer in Camera raw at 4K. You have to buy a module for $2500, then a additional module either the R5 or 7Q to get raw. Ergonomically its an awesome camera in alot of ways. To me though I'd still rather use an Epic or a Scarlet for most of my work.

I do see the value in the way its built and will handle, but it wouldn't be an A-Camera for me. And overall cost wise it is pretty similar in cost in the long run once adding modules, power and recorders.

In regards to the weight talk to the guys who used to climb mountains with 10-15lb lenses, 400 ft rolls of film and a monster pod. I honestly think we're getting soft. Sure having a light nimble pack is nice, but seriously if that much of a difference in weight is a killer for quality... hit the gym or figure out how to set up your kit to fit your needs.
 
L. Langer said:
RED can't play ball at lower prices. The profits have to come from somewhere and a price drop in one product area means increases in another.
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No doubt... But speaking of Scarlet specifically, I think that it's gonna put another serious crimp in RED's style when, on Dec. 1st, they start charging $12,500 for the Dragon upgrade, while the new Scarlet-Dragon standalone brain is supposed to be $14,500... Basically means a Scarlet-X brain is worth about $2k, which when compared to some of the latest competitor options actually seems kind of accurate. They're basically cannibalizing their entry-level twice as fast as they could be because of an upgrade program that costs more than their (superior performing?) competitors' cameras, that are 4k shootable out of the box (with raw and prores upgrade options). The 4k/raw landscape now is so vastly different from 2012, yet RED is still charging pretty much the same prices as two-three years ago.

Food for thought: FS7 with AXR-R5 raw recorder will likely be around the same price as *just* the Scarlet-Dragon *brain*, but the Sony will still have quite a bit more value (for the reasons in my previous post). It may have taken two years, but Sony are certainly leap-frogging RED in terms of price/performance (which is where the most growth/sales potential is).

Fortunately for RED, Epic (X or Dragon) still kind of makes logical sense because of its resolution/fps advantages, but Scarlet (X or Dragon) is needlessly being put in a position where it just isn't a financially sound competitor. If Scarlet-X brain was $3500 ($8k shootable), it'd be a gate-way camera again (leading to Scarlet-Dragon upgrades or Epic upgrades). As it stands, however, it's a bit of money pit.

EDIT: Question; can the R5 fit in-line between the FS7 and the Extension Module thing, or can it only be tethered (tethering kind of sucks)?
 
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