New Sony PXW-FS7 4k camera

[Mike S. M.]

My guess is it's just the content you have seen. There is not much of a difference between the two (F55 is better or the low end slightly while the F65 is slightly better on the high end)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM83ImFfTIs

You can check out comparison files here as well: http://cinematography.net/UWE/index.html

Judging things from youtube is hardly realistic. The F55 is great but there is a considerable difference to the F65 as it should. The double resolution sensor, different pixel arrangement and higher end processing on the F65 are all apparent when you grade footage from the F65 and F55.

 

[soren k jensen]

Audio implementation is unclear to me. There's 4 tracks but only two inputs and their pdf is confusing. Maybe it is two xlr's, wireless via smart shoe and internal scratch mic???

Ticks a lot of boxes for docs. Grading slog3 can hopefully get rid of the vanilla, Daniel ;-)

 

[Mike S. M.]

Lots of good objective commentary here. Maybe Sony will displace Arri in double-quick time - if that happens, RED can still be a strong number 2. I mean, really, you´ve got three options for serious work, basically: Sony, RED and film. I never saw the point in Arri or Canon digital movie cameras. That´s how I see it as someone outside the business.

Arri is the most traditional cinema company in the world, even more than Panavision and the Alexa is the most successful and used camera for cinema and you never saw the point in Arri digital movie cameras? If you had said Red, Sony and Arri, or Red and Arri or Sony and Arri you would have a point. But Arri has to be in there.

Who's Canon in the movie world?

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Sony A7s

http://www.cinema5d.com/dynamic-range-sony-a7s-vs-arri-amira-canon-c300-5d-mark-iii-1dc-panasonic-gh4/

I wouldn't take info like this as a scientific fact but if we, for the sake of the argument, take these as correct figures or roughly there, it is beneficial to mention that there is a significant effort involved in getting from wobbly video and poor motion performance to a decent motion performance, using a large UHD high color sampling sensor.

14 stops provide a huge DR and at these extremes getting another stop more may be easy to wish for but is very difficult to achieve, which can be seen in performance peaks from Red, Arri & Sony.

Looking at the footage, where numbers don't matter, it looks very vanilla to me.

What do you mean by "vanilla" ?

 

[Mike Halper]

when the camera leaked a couple of days ago the price mentioned was 10k, now they are saying 8K which means street price is even lower and the package with the newly announced zoom might be the even sweeter deal.

The article says it's 8,000 pounds, not dollars. So it's actually about $13,000 with the 28-135 lens. Abel Cine has the body only listed for $9,600.

 

[Jonathan Yonkers]

Sony lovers now?

Sony lovers now?

Nowhere online have I seen so many Sony haters (I include my self as the biggest Sony hater in the world), but now that Sony all the sudden delivers a great camera at an affordable price and every one here becomes a Sony lover? Really?
Sony has been able to deliver this and more for less for decades now, lets make this clear. The only reason why they are actually delivering better value now is because RED as been handing their asses on a platter for years now. I think they are beginning to get it (thanks to loosing the market share to RED), but giving Sony any love now after years of raping artists with high prices and lame specs seems unreasonably.
If Sony is now getting love here, then I will eat a turd or glass or both.
I think RED may have to make a move. Things are moving forward, but I will always support RED's philosophy of unleashing all the demons a camera can handle and not the other way around, like Sony has done always.

 

[Erwin van Dijck]

I tried the new FS7 today @IBC and I am impressed.



I’m a Scarlet MX owner/operator and I must say, the FS7 is a relief in terms of weight and ergonomics. It will be a very tempting camera for many. A killer for documentary/event/corporate work.


Pros:
- With the extra module and a v-mount battery it is very well balanced. Easy to handhold, even for longer times.
- Sony shoulder feels good and the Vocas one (already at the show) is even better
- The smart side handle has all the buttons and rockers to control the complete camera, works very clever.
- Battery life performance is much much better compared to a Scarlet
- Almost no camera noise
- ND filters
- 14 stops
- Focus magnification during recording
- F5 sensor
- It is so light…


Ok, the cons:
- The monitor/viewfinder is way too small, only 3.5”, focussing is a pain
- No RAW
- Small little buttons scattered all over the camera
- This was a prototype cam, not everything was finalized
- that new 28-135… hmm I don’t know. It’s not wide enough on the S35 sensor, the zoom is ‘electronic’ and moves a bit slow/lagging behind. But the images look great.
- It’s Sony so there will be a new model next year ;-)


Now think about what a dragon update will cost compared to a complete FS7 kit.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Nowhere online have I seen so many Sony haters (I include my self as the biggest Sony hater in the world), but now that Sony all the sudden delivers a great camera at an affordable price and every one here becomes a Sony lover? Really?
Sony has been able to deliver this and more for less for decades now, lets make this clear. The only reason why they are actually delivering better value now is because RED as been handing their asses on a platter for years now. I think they are beginning to get it (thanks to loosing the market share to RED), but giving Sony any love now after years of raping artists with high prices and lame specs seems unreasonably.
If Sony is now getting love here, then I will eat a turd or glass or both.
I think RED may have to make a move. Things are moving forward, but I will always support RED's philosophy of unleashing all the demons a camera can handle and not the other way around, like Sony has done always.

Nice passive aggressive post.

Get over it.

I think most people here are pretty objective and can give props when a camera company gets it right.

 

[Samir Patel]

Pros:
- Battery life performance is much much better compared to a Scarlet
- Almost no camera noise
- ND filters
- 14 stops
- Focus magnification during recording

I like this. And a brand new camera to work in more environments for essentially the same cost as upgrading my existing camera.

 

[Clayton Burkhart]

Nowhere online have I seen so many Sony haters (I include my self as the biggest Sony hater in the world), but now that Sony all the sudden delivers a great camera at an affordable price and every one here becomes a Sony lover? Really?
Sony has been able to deliver this and more for less for decades now, lets make this clear. The only reason why they are actually delivering better value now is because RED as been handing their asses on a platter for years now. I think they are beginning to get it (thanks to loosing the market share to RED), but giving Sony any love now after years of raping artists with high prices and lame specs seems unreasonably.
If Sony is now getting love here, then I will eat a turd or glass or both.
I think RED may have to make a move. Things are moving forward, but I will always support RED's philosophy of unleashing all the demons a camera can handle and not the other way around, like Sony has done always.

Brand loyalty beyond the limits of reason is always a fascinating phenomenon to observe.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Nowhere online have I seen so many Sony haters (I include my self as the biggest Sony hater in the world), but now that Sony all the sudden delivers a great camera at an affordable price and every one here becomes a Sony lover? Really?
Sony has been able to deliver this and more for less for decades now, lets make this clear. The only reason why they are actually delivering better value now is because RED as been handing their asses on a platter for years now. I think they are beginning to get it (thanks to loosing the market share to RED), but giving Sony any love now after years of raping artists with high prices and lame specs seems unreasonably.
If Sony is now getting love here, then I will eat a turd or glass or both.
I think RED may have to make a move. Things are moving forward, but I will always support RED's philosophy of unleashing all the demons a camera can handle and not the other way around, like Sony has done always.

I'll crush up a lightbulb for you.

Other companies make good cameras. Maybe more expensive than RED, maybe less. Even though I CHOOSE to shoot RED, it doesn't mean I'm blind to the success and achievements of other companies. This camera just smoked the Scarlet in specs and cost, no way you can ignore it. It will be a big success and you will see it used a lot. It has equal DR to the Dragon, more sensitive, better in low light, lighter, cheaper, has everything but RAW recorder and V mount built in, built in ND's, etc...

 

[Matt Ryan]

Judging things from youtube is hardly realistic. The F55 is great but there is a considerable difference to the F65 as it should. The double resolution sensor, different pixel arrangement and higher end processing on the F65 are all apparent when you grade footage from the F65 and F55.

Of course it's not. I was responding to the claim that F5/55 footage looks overly sharpened. No one said the F55 was equal to the F65, of course the F65 is superior. It doesn't mean that it doesn't come close, because it does. It's still not an F65 though..

I also posted a link to the CML shootout where you can download the original files from the F55 if you don't believe me... I don't just compare on the web, I shoot with these in real life.

 

[Scott Brown]

Had this on my shoulder earlier this afternoon and it feels great. Form factor is very good and I think this will be a huge hit for Sony and will kill dead Canon's C500.

It uses the F5's sensor and will hit sales of this camera very hard indeed - zoom lens is sweet.

It's no Dragon slayer, but for run and gun 4K it is perfect.

Scott

 

[Christof Paul]

i don't think it is out of the question for sony to release a f65 follow up (with new sensor) next year for less then 20000$. f5 to fs7 was 20k to 8k, f35 to f65 was 300?400?k down to 60k, and the f65 will be 4 years old next year. f95 in 2015 for 18k?
it really does not matter anyway, the new panasonic looks really nice as well (altough i believe it is too expensive?), aja, blackmagic, everybody is pushing towards pretty amazing 4k and all for less then red charges for an upgrade.

 

[Shane Kelly]

Nowhere online have I seen so many Sony haters (I include my self as the biggest Sony hater in the world), but now that Sony all the sudden delivers a great camera at an affordable price and every one here becomes a Sony lover? Really?
Sony has been able to deliver this and more for less for decades now, lets make this clear. The only reason why they are actually delivering better value now is because RED as been handing their asses on a platter for years now. I think they are beginning to get it (thanks to loosing the market share to RED), but giving Sony any love now after years of raping artists with high prices and lame specs seems unreasonably.
If Sony is now getting love here, then I will eat a turd or glass or both.
I think RED may have to make a move. Things are moving forward, but I will always support RED's philosophy of unleashing all the demons a camera can handle and not the other way around, like Sony has done always.

I think this camera is more of a response to canon than to red and will seriously hurt the canon c100-500 line. The F55 was more of a response to the epic and alexa and borrowed from both of those cameras in it's creation, especially red's modular idea. IMO sony used the modular concept a lot better.
I agree that red will need to make a move on this front especially for the scarlet line as this camera ticks an awful lot of boxes for the doc and corporate shooter.
Hating one company over another doesn't do yourself any favors, choose the right tool for the job. If I was going into a months long travel job or a doc, I would seriously look at this camera over everything else including my Epic and F55.

 

[Jon Carr]

I see this as Sony's way to compete against the AMIRA more then RED cameras. Even though the huge price difference between these 2 Documentary style cameras. The AMIRA is a great doc camera, and the FS7 would be another great option for a doc style shooting.

 

[Matt Ryan]

i don't think it is out of the question for sony to release a f65 follow up (with new sensor) next year for less then 20000$. f5 to fs7 was 20k to 8k, f35 to f65 was 300?400?k down to 60k, and the f65 will be 4 years old next year. f95 in 2015 for 18k?
it really does not matter anyway, the new panasonic looks really nice as well (altough i believe it is too expensive?), aja, blackmagic, everybody is pushing towards pretty amazing 4k and all for less then red charges for an upgrade.

The f95 is coming... 9K sensor subsampled to 8K RAW recording via recorder deck and 4K internal prores/dnxhd up to 240fps as well as 8K XAVC in camera up to 60fps. Global shutter, native 2000ISO (Clean up to 5000ISO) due to it's 100db S/N ratio, 15 stops of dynamic range, 240fps at 4K, 160fps at 6K, 120fps at 8K, 4k live output via sdi for live broadcast or external recording device like a 7Q. It will also be smaller in size than the current f65. It will also get a price drop from the f65 and body alone will run around $30k.

Hold onto your pants at NAB 2015...

 

[Mike S. M.]

It DOES NOT use the fs700 sensor! It uses the F5 sensor.

Ok, I will bite and hop on on the ALL CAPS and EXCLAMATION marks cocky attitude. Probably makes me look more like I KNOW what I'm talking about!

The FS7 DOES use the same sensor as the FS700 because the FS700 and F5 both USE THE SAME SENSOR! Same size, same pixels, same sensor. The F5 gets it's higher dynamic range and sensitivity from it's different processing. Who knows, maybe Sony held the FS700 back on purpose or maybe they couldn't get the sensor to behave as well as they did with the F5 2 years later. But IT IS the same sensor!

 

[Mike S. M.]

Of course it's not. I was responding to the claim that F5/55 footage looks overly sharpened. No one said the F55 was equal to the F65, of course the F65 is superior. It doesn't mean that it doesn't come close, because it does. It's still not an F65 though..

I also posted a link to the CML shootout where you can download the original files from the F55 if you don't believe me...

I don't need to believe you. I grade material from both often. I can tell you exactly all aspects of the F65 image that beat the F55 hands down. The only edge the F55 has is in low light. But it is so small that it's not even worth talking about it.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Ok, I will bite and hop on on the ALL CAPS and EXCLAMATION marks cocky attitude. Probably makes me look more like I KNOW what I'm talking about!

The FS7 DOES use the same sensor as the FS700 because the FS700 and F5 both USE THE SAME SENSOR! Same size, same pixels, same sensor. The F5 gets it's higher dynamic range and sensitivity from it's different processing. Who knows, maybe Sony held the FS700 back on purpose or maybe they couldn't get the sensor to behave as well as they did with the F5 2 years later. But IT IS the same sensor!

wrong, but I'll let you continue believing they are the same. I was emphasizing Does Not, not being cocky. Best of luck in your endeavors here...