New RED Color Science - Test Pilot Feedback Thread

[Stuart English]

Color Science

Color Science

After Red have gathered all their testing data ....( could future builds ) ,,,, be an improvement even on what we're seeing here?

Yes that is still a possibility. In theory, the more data we receive from the Test Pilots the more precise the color calibration will become.

I won't be sending out any more Test Pilot e-mails, please continue to send us the test results if you are on that program though.

Meanwhile the Beta Test version of this code is available

see http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31548

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi Sanjin,

Very good and different test with the projector image.
I processed a couple of old files and everytime BANG the noise is down and the dynamic range is higher. Dramatic...

Totally incredible isn't it

Antoine

Antoine,

definitely it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Sanjin! I pulled it up in Photoshop to test Neat Image after Evin started his thread talking about his use of NeatVideo. I resized to 2k, applied a little de-noising with minor sharpening then moved the bottom end four points over with curves. My guess is that at 2k there would be VERY little noise noticeable and a little better tweaking might give far better results. I wonder what this would look like in motion!

(Below is a 1:1 2k)

This sort of exposure seems almost perfect for my purposes but I can't wait to see what Mysterium-X manages to add to something like this! Can you imagine 1280 ISO without denoising being mandatory, or close to 2000 ISO with denoising being acceptable for 1080?!! Am I pushing it?

Roberto,

great example.

Also I have Neat video plug in and like it.

I used it a lot in my latest Quick & Dirty lens tests.

And now it's all even better with a new build and RA.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Nate, unfortunately, you can't compare the old and new with the same kelvin color temp, because I increased the accuracy of the calibration of the color temperatures, so that now the color temp that the camera awb sees for the light in the scene or the picker in RA! is very close to the number you'd get by using a color temp meter. Before, the numbers were a touch rough...

Graeme

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Nate, unfortunately, you can't compare the old and new with the same kelvin color temp, because I increased the accuracy of the calibration of the color temperatures, so that now the color temp that the camera awb sees for the light in the scene or the picker in RA! is very close to the number you'd get by using a color temp meter. Before, the numbers were a touch rough...

Graeme

Graeme,

I saw that from the beginning but took Peter Majtan's "approach" with the same Kelvin color temp @ ISO 2000 in comparison because I found it very interesting...

 

[Antoine Fabi]

Nate,

No, it's not about lowering the blue channel.

Try with a couple of blue objects, say...deep blue and bright blue with other colors also.

You'll see that the rendered blue is superb, and very well balanced with other colors.

Antoine

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Nate,

No, it's not about lowering the blue channel.

Try with a couple of blue objects, say...deep blue and bright blue with other colors also.

You'll see that the rendered blue is superb, and very well balanced with other colors.

Antoine

Antoine,

we could agree that blue channel has got "under control" at B20-RA20.

 

[ericyoung]

Build 20 Colour Science looks amazing.

Just one thing, we're still on Build 17 v3.4.1 as the last Release Build!!

Is Build 18 now releasable?

And more importantly how far is 20 from release? I'm assuming there is no Build 19 as Color Science is "two build jump" in quality!

 

[Mark Mannschreck]

But Graemme he's using different kelvin to achieve the same look as before...

If we like the old RA picker "look" (not saying I do) then it'll be just slightly less noisy?

Nate, unfortunately, you can't compare the old and new with the same kelvin color temp, because I increased the accuracy of the calibration of the color temperatures, so that now the color temp that the camera awb sees for the light in the scene or the picker in RA! is very close to the number you'd get by using a color temp meter. Before, the numbers were a touch rough...

Graeme

 

[Graeme Nattress]

I'm not using different kelvin, I'm using accurate kelvin! Previously, for a given light, say the white balance said it was 3270K. Now the same balance is as 2790K, which is "correct" for 2800k light source. Achieving this calibration is not easy - I'd shoot some daylight and tungsten at known color temperatures on your stills camera and see what various raw development apps think the color temperature is...

So pick a white balance and white is still white, but.... The colors are more accurate, and the kelvin number is more accurate. But it's the increased color accuracy and how that accuracy is achieved that gives the noise improvement.

Graeme

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Can someone shoot some browns and reds under tungsten at different exposures? That way we can see it "correctly exposed" and then see how far down we need to go to get into the noise.

Or some other and better way to try to see what the limit is, where it falls apart. I am not sure what would be best to get a gauge of where "not to go" but if someone could illustrate this threshold or quantify it in some sort of illustrative way it would be very helpful.

 

[David Didato]

I just shot some tests in b20 and b17. PM me and I'll give you the download link to these:

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

I'm not using different kelvin, I'm using accurate kelvin! Previously, for a given light, say the white balance said it was 3270K. Now the same balance is as 2790K, which is "correct" for 2800k light source. Achieving this calibration is not easy - I'd shoot some daylight and tungsten at known color temperatures on your stills camera and see what various raw development apps think the color temperature is...

So pick a white balance and white is still white, but.... The colors are more accurate, and the kelvin number is more accurate. But it's the increased color accuracy and how that accuracy is achieved that gives the noise improvement.

Graeme

Graeme,

thanks and I've got it.

Also it's interesting in to observe all that "visually with camera like a R1" sort of development in a different flavors...

I vote for R1...

 

[Niko Pueringer]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but we're seeing less noise because the blue channel is turned down in strength to make for accurate white balance temperatures.

If the blue channel is turned up to the same strength as an earlier earlier build, the noise is about the same then?

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but we're seeing less noise because the blue channel is turned down in strength to make for accurate white balance temperatures.

If the blue channel is turned up to the same strength as an earlier earlier build, the noise is about the same then?

Niko,

hope you'll got it:

The blue channel has got "under control" at B20-RA20... :couch: :head_explode:

 

[Graeme Nattress]

There's some funky AI that I came up with, over the last year or so, that is used to do this. It's pretty complex stuff. However, the results are the same or more accurate colors, but with less noise. The added calibration accuracy is a nice bonus.

You're all describing the visual effects of what you see, and from what I'm reading that's very positive. But as for what is actually happening to the data, well.... It's complex. Oh, and the man behind the curtain is un-important, I'd ignore him.

Graeme

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

There's some funky AI that I came up with, over the last year or so, that is used to do this. It's pretty complex stuff. However, the results are the same or more accurate colors, but with less noise. The added calibration accuracy is a nice bonus.

You're all describing the visual effects of what you see, and from what I'm reading that's very positive. But as for what is actually happening to the data, well.... It's complex. Oh, and the man behind the curtain is un-important, I'd ignore him.

Graeme

Graeme,

As You Like It!!!!!!

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms.
And then the whining school-boy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon's mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slipper'd pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side,
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything."

William Shakespeare - All the world's a stage (from As You Like It 2/7)


LINK>>>

 

[Graeme Nattress]

To colour or not to colour? That is the question?

Graeme

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

To colour or not to colour? That is the question?

Graeme

That's the questionn!!!!!!!

Or

Absolutely fantastic respond!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Graeme Nattress]

My English teacher had a broken typewriter. After a capital "S" it always put in an extra space, so I only learned about William S Hakespear. Mr Leak, where are you now?

Graeme

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

My English teacher had a broken typewriter. After a capital "S" it always put in an extra space, so I only learned about William S Hakespear. Mr Leak, where are you now?

Graeme

"Follydiddledah! Explores the interface between art and philosophy by juxtaposing remarkable or provocative quotes —
mainly but not exclusively from well known philosophers — with images which provide visual commentary or critique.
There is no set formula for linking quotes and images. Either may be seen as commenting on the other..."


follydiddledah!