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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New RED Color Science - Test Pilot Feedback Thread

more pictures from my test

more pictures from my test

These are pictures where you can see the difference between rendering in V3.60 and V20

Rob
 
Save me

Save me

Would someone please save me from myself. I am 3 weeks out from shooting a 38 million dollar film with 3 RED Ones. I am so tempted to use beta build 20 but perhaps I should wait and stay with 17. (two of the RED bodies are Summit Entertainment's from "Knowing" and one is mine so I can upgrade the firmware)

would I be crazy to go to beta 20?

Peter
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
Would someone please save me from myself. I am 3 weeks out from shooting a 38 million dollar film with 3 RED Ones. I am so tempted to use beta build 20 but perhaps I should wait and stay with 17. (two of the RED bodies are Summit Entertainment's from "Knowing" and one is mine so I can upgrade the firmware)

would I be crazy to go to beta 20?

Peter
Click to expand...

Surely the production's insurance policy won't cover you if you use a Beta build?
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
would I be crazy to go to beta 20?

Peter
Click to expand...

Peter, i'm dying to use B20 myseft too... For a indie feature that im starting soon as data wrangler, i will use one with B20 and my backup body will be in B17.

Will check footage shoot by shoot and frame by frame thats for sure...
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
Would someone please save me from myself. I am 3 weeks out from shooting a 38 million dollar film with 3 RED Ones. I am so tempted to use beta build 20 but perhaps I should wait and stay with 17. (two of the RED bodies are Summit Entertainment's from "Knowing" and one is mine so I can upgrade the firmware)

would I be crazy to go to beta 20?

Peter
Click to expand...

Walk easy. Do test, test, test, and another test. If you have done enough test with the gear you are oing to use and in the environment you going to shoot, and you experience no big problem, then go for it.

I have done one paying gig with B20, and it worked out FANTASTIC! Totally amazing, visibley alot less noise under sertain light.

If you shoot with B20, and get problems, then it just take 5 min to re-flash the cam bak to 17. Just have a flash mem loaded with the "upgrade" folder for 17 ready on the location.

..just do new black calibration..

Cheers
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
Would someone please save me from myself. I am 3 weeks out from shooting a 38 million dollar film with 3 RED Ones. I am so tempted to use beta build 20 but perhaps I should wait and stay with 17. (two of the RED bodies are Summit Entertainment's from "Knowing" and one is mine so I can upgrade the firmware)
Click to expand...

If it were me, I would test the crap out of it between now and when your shoot starts. In three weeks, I think you could judge how well the beta build would serve. I don't think you will have to worry about stability problems or camera performance issues. Where I think the real issues may pop up is with any changes to the RAW data recording in the camera. After all, this is a beta build. Then again, I've been using beta 18 for a long while now and essentially skipped B17 completely.

A lot can happen in three weeks... Build 20 could go to official release status.

The other thing to think about too is that the new color science can be applied to older footage through the beta RED ALERT and eventually with all other applications when the SDK is updated. So to gain the color science benefits, you don't necessarily have to shoot with Build 20.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
The other thing to think about too is that the new color science can be applied to older footage through the beta RED ALERT and eventually with all other applications when the SDK is updated. So to gain the color science benefits, you don't necessarily have to shoot with Build 20.
Click to expand...
For me, this is the big factor - is there not an argument to shoot with B17 and post with the new colour science versions of RA/RC/RR?

I've got a big music promo shoot upcoming (not quite $38M, though!), and this is what I'll do for that, I think...

Best of both worlds?
Dom.
 
I think I'm right in saying that at the moment it does not, but the next revision will do.

Latest versions of RA and RR do use the latest colour science, however...

HTH,
Dom.
 
Do I dare

Do I dare

Thank you Jeff and all. I am sooo tempted but I have bumped up to the new RA and will use that and we shall see how things progress.

BTW Production insurance doesn't differentiate between beta and release firmware. Much like they never cared if we were doing bleach bypass on a feature. Kodak didn't validate bleach bypass or processing reversal stocks in negative chemistry.

Peter
 
Keep us posted Peter, very keen to see how your tests turn out, and I'll keep you posted on mine if you like, as it sounds like we're doing similar stuff. Got a bit of a mental turn-around, but once the project is in editorial I should have some time to pull out versions posted with different versions of RA/RR...

Unfortunately, it's unlikely I'll get the chance to do any comparison shots on B20, but you never know!

Dom.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
The other thing to think about too is that the new color science can be applied to older footage through the beta RED ALERT and eventually with all other applications when the SDK is updated. So to gain the color science benefits, you don't necessarily have to shoot with Build 20.
Click to expand...

Shooting with beta build 20 will only improve your REC709 monitoring or colors interpretation on the camera Viewfinder and director's monitor, not the actual R3D clip.

I can only see one reason to risk any trouble with new beta bugs (if any knowed) :when critical color decisions has to be made based on the EVF or LCD hooked up to the camera.

I still would go with a Scratch or other high end "monitoring"/CC tool that support R3D """natively""" to look after the RAW signal.

Patrick
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Shooting with beta build 20 will only improve your REC709 monitoring or colors interpretation on the camera Viewfinder and director's monitor, not the actual R3D clip.

Patrick
Click to expand...

So they did nothing to improve picture quality? Do you know this? Have you seen the side by side?

Is this a fact?

I have done some extensive testing and I would say that this is more that a "monitoring build" as you are putting it.

David
 
I would say that the noise characteristics HAVE changed from build 18 beta to build 20 beta. Maybe this is perceptual, maybe my black balance was done better; who knows for sure (except Graeme!)?

But the image has a very organic, film-like feel now with grain looking much more random than previous builds.

HTH

Paul
 
Yes, but the question is this:

Is the better noise/tungsten performance an improvement over shooting B17 and using the new post tools (when considering the final image), or simply that you get to see the better image live through the monitors when shooting?

It sounds to me so far like it's the latter, but I'm dying to find some time to test and find out.

For now, I'm sticking with B17 and posting using the new tools...

Cheers,
Dom.
 
Dominic Jones said:
Yes, but the question is this:

Is the better noise/tungsten performance an improvement over shooting B17 and using the new post tools (when considering the final image), or simply that you get to see the better image live through the monitors when shooting?

It sounds to me so far like it's the latter, but I'm dying to find some time to test and find out.

For now, I'm sticking with B17 and posting using the new tools...

Cheers,
Dom.
Click to expand...

Dom... it is clearly both. Many have posted their opinions with examples and I don't recall one that tested and didn't agree.

Jim
 
I guess the question is Jim and gang: If I am going to do the final debayer in post for the DI (Pablo) will there be a difference between what I capture RAW in Build 17 & what I would get in shooting with Build 20.

Peter
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
I guess the question is Jim and gang: If I am going to do the final debayer in post for the DI (Pablo) will there be a difference between what I capture RAW in Build 17 & what I would get in shooting with Build 20.
Click to expand...

If you are using tungsten light, there is improvement. In daylight, there might be improvement, but I have not seed a dramatic difference yet.
 
Jannard said:
Dom... it is clearly both. Many have posted their opinions with examples and I don't recall one that tested and didn't agree.

Jim
Click to expand...
OK, thanks Jim...

So, to clarify, if I shoot on B17 and post with the new tools, I'll get a much better look than B17 with the old tools (I'm shooting tungsten, btw), but if I were to shoot in future with B20 and the new tools, it gets even better again, right?

Good news indeed!

Sorry if I'm confusing and/or confused, it's just with all the talk of re-processing old RAW data with the new tools, I wasn't sure where the line was drawn between camera builds and the new post tools...

Cheers,
Dom.
 
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