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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New pricing...

I just realized... Person of Interest comes on during the same time slot as the new pricing release. Someone in "release scheduling" was not paying attention. I'm watching Person of Interest.

Oh wait... PoI doesn't come on for another hour locally. Guess I'll stay and watch the fun after all.
 
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I don't know why you are concerned even if the drop were to be bigger then whatever you might be anticipating Rob Ruffo. I mean at least you don't have a C300 LOL...that was the single most underhanded FU ever thrown at professional users when the 4k version came out right afterwards with identical sensor. Imagine what those dudes are thinking? I met someone who bought one and I am legit trying not to laugh about it, cuz dude if I was him I would be FLIPPING out at Canon uber bad...though he likes the dynamic range and the stability relative to his interpretation of how reliable reds are according to him. I still can't help but smirk knowing I have the better camera, at least in the sense that I don't feel like I got screwed, the way I imagine a C300 user is feeling, right about now...
 
We will find out soon enough, 34 minutes and counting.
 
AndreasOberg said:
Give it a rest Rob, we have heard you. Personally I don't believe that equipment should be high because of "our accountants". Power to the people I believe. I'm still amazed that we have much more powerful computers than they had making Jurrassic Park and for me that has only been a good thing. To feel that the only thing limiting your creations is your own skill and not (as much) your bank account. :)
Myself I cherish the possibility to in the future to invest in several Epics and here of course price will make a difference.

No matter what the new price will be I'm ready to order, hopefully with some extra lenses.
Cheers!!!
/Andreas
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll let it rest, but for the last time - buying gear vs renting and creative talent and creative career progression are not related issues, AT ALL. Which platform to chose for a shoot is a creative and technical decision that keeps the budget in mind, but whether to rent or buy is only an accounting decision - that's all. You'll shoot the same exact stuff with a rented camera as with a camera you own if you use the same model. There is no creative technical or artistic difference between those two options. David Mullen owns no camera at all!!!! It doesn't matter. On the other hand, I know guys who own large rental houses who are not DPs and would not even know how. Camera you own, career - separate things.

If the market becomes too volatile on cameras, with dramatic sudden drops, then it will no longer make sense for even a very busy DP to buy their own camera as rental will be the better option - they'll never make they money back unless they shoot every day until the next drop. Why is that so hard to understand? A price drop is a financial topic, not an artistic one. A cheap Epic is not "more artistic".

You don't have to be a rental house to be a renter. Anybody who shoots for pay and owns the camera they use is adding the perceived value of x number fo day's rental to what the client is paying for, even if they offer the camera "for free" (which is not cool to do, but even if) the client is saying yes to a contract which includes whatever that free rental, in their minds, is worth, which is entirely based on going rates, which are, in turn, rather directly based on how much it costs to buy one.

I rest my case - and only summarize here because some of you seem to still not get this - and it really is not complicated.
 
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Rob Ruffo said:
...
If the market becomes too volatile on cameras, with dramatic sudden drops, then it will no longer make sense for even a very busy DP to buy their own camera as rental will be the better option - they'll never make they money back unless they shoot every day until the nest drop. Why si that so hard to understand? A price drop is a financial topic, not an artistic one. A cheap Epic is not "more artistic".
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Completely agree. And the keyword is "volatile" and the definition is relative. What's volatile for one man is the expectation for another. At last... common ground. :smiley:
 
I think Jim said it best... "90% of the RED owners are Indie filmmakers". I fall into that category. We beg, borrow, steal, and whatever else it takes to make our films. More affordable cameras.... hmmmm... I like the sound of that.
 
RED's not gonna look out for our business models. That's our business. RED's gonna look out for their own business model (and business goals). We don't have a good clue about what those are, and can only speculate. Soon, we will know a little bit more about what RED really wants to focus on, and believes should be their business goals. Their actions will speak more clearly and we can let our speculation (fun as its been) end.

Happy reading!
 
Brian Merlen said:
I don't know why you are concerned even if the drop were to be bigger then whatever you might be anticipating Rob Ruffo. I mean at least you don't have a C300 LOL...that was the single most underhanded FU ever thrown at professional users when the 4k version came out right afterwards with identical sensor. Imagine what those dudes are thinking? I met someone who bought one and I am legit trying not to laugh about it, cuz dude if I was him I would be FLIPPING out at Canon uber bad...though he likes the dynamic range and the stability relative to his interpretation of how reliable reds are according to him. I still can't help but smirk knowing I have the better camera, at least in the sense that I don't feel like I got screwed, the way I imagine a C300 user is feeling, right about now...
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You represent everything negative about RED users. The smirking RED owner, looking down on someone with a different camera. And you wonder why there is this negativity out there? The C300 has been out almost a year. Fact. The 4k version, the C500, is not available yet and won't be for a few months. Fact. The C300 is perfect camera for some projects, those owners will make their money, sell and upgrade if they want, different philosophy. There are probably more C300's sold than EPICs to put it into terms you can understand.

And you say you have the better camera? Better for what? A documentary shoot in the middle of nowhere with no power for a few days? Sigh.
 
I'm bummed because I have to be on the road for the next hour and then teaching a class... have to catch up on the fun later. :-(
 
Isaac Marchionna said:
If Jim comes on here and says "sorry guys, tomorrow" I may swallow my on tongue.
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"Swallow my own tongue."

Hahahaha. Don't do that, dude...but I hear you.
 
Brian Merlen said:
I don't know why you are concerned even if the drop were to be bigger then whatever you might be anticipating Rob Ruffo. I mean at least you don't have a C300 LOL...that was the single most underhanded FU ever thrown at professional users when the 4k version came out right afterwards with identical sensor. Imagine what those dudes are thinking? I met someone who bought one and I am legit trying not to laugh about it, cuz dude if I was him I would be FLIPPING out at Canon uber bad...though he likes the dynamic range and the stability relative to his interpretation of how reliable reds are according to him. I still can't help but smirk knowing I have the better camera, at least in the sense that I don't feel like I got screwed, the way I imagine a C300 user is feeling, right about now...
Click to expand...

Actually C300s rent very well, and still sell for the same amount as launch at B&H.
 
Ummmm red.com just went down...
 
Bob Gundu said:
I think Jim said it best... "90% of the RED owners are Indie filmmakers". I fall into that category. We beg, borrow, steal, and whatever else it takes to make our films. More affordable cameras.... hmmmm... I like the sound of that.
Click to expand...

You should rent then - often cheaper.
 
came back up, weird
 
Rob Ruffo said:
Actually C300s rent very well, and still sell for the same amount as launch at B&H.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure it flopped. Great camera, though. Really underrated (but overpriced); just saw 2 PL mount versions go for 10k each in the buy/sell section
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
RED's not gonna look out for our business models. That's our business. RED's gonna look out for their own business model (and business goals). We don't have a good clue about what those are, and can only speculate. Soon, we will know a little bit more about what RED really wants to focus on, and believes should be their business goals. Their actions will speak more clearly and we can let our speculation (fun as its been) end.

Happy reading!
Click to expand...

You buy expensive pro equipment, you are like a partner with your seller. A company who does not look out for their customer's business model is not one you should deal with. You are wrong about Red.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
You'll shoot the same exact stuff with a rented camera as with a camera you own if you use the same model. There is no creative technical or artistic difference between those two options.
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I don't think this statement is always true, specially with a lot of indie filmmakers. I know there are a lot of things I wouldn't have shot if I didn't own my Scarlet. When planning a budget for an indie film or short film, you can only test or play with the camera so much because your time is limited if it's rented. Owning the camera gives you the freedom to try different things, or practice in different scenarios. This I think opens up a lot of different creative, technical, or artistic options that you might be limited if you are only renting a camera when you need it.

A few years ago, I either had to rent a camera, or attach myself to someone that owed better gear than me. Now I've owned my own camera for a year, and I can guarantee you that my creative, technical, and artistic talent has increased exponentially compared to the previous years where I used to rent, and that's just because I have the opportunity to grab my camera whenever time allows me and just shoot, and learn, without being concerned on a return date.

For some creatives, artists, and even technicians, it's not always about making money, but just making something to express whatever you want to express, or even just learning.
 
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