New mount...

[Kyle Mallory]

Is there going to be a guide for us scumbag indy people who are going to need a little introduction to getting these lenses and back focus sorted? The most complex camera I'm used to using is an HVX200...

Or do I HAVE to take it to some hiring house person?

No, you don't. But it won't hurt to take it into a pro-shop, either. Again, it's important, critically important, but given the right tools, and some patience, you should be able to get quality results on you're own.

Personally, if you are totally new, I would suggest taking the camera into a shop, and asking if you can watch the process, so you know what's involved. From there, you can decide if its something you want to try and do yourself in the future.

Also, once I get the camera sorted for the Red lenses I'm ordering, will that need adjusting periodically, or would you only need to adjust the camera mount if you're getting different lenses. I had no idea this was an issue.

As others have said, it should be done periodically, because things become lose, or shift, or slide, or dust prevents rings from sitting perfectly flat/smooth, etc, etc. How often depends on how aggressive you are with your camera and your lenses. At the very least, you should be *checking* regularly (daily/weekly/monthly/quarterly/between projects/etc), whether you actually make adjustments or not.

 

[Thor Wixom]

Red Team,

Please seriously consider the P+S Interchangeable lens mount solution.

http://www.pstechnik.de/en/optics-ims.php

Some of use would really want to easily mix different brands of lenses on set (quickly and safely).

Thanks.

All In One,

I would also like to see a similar solution.

I plan to mix between PL glass and the Birger mount with Canon lenses to take advantage of the AF features that Erik is planning for 2nd Q 2008.

I know from a previous post in the Lens Test forum, that many of you don't think that AF is worthy of a camera like Red. But just think about shooting professional football or auto racing with a DSLR and manual focus! Since Red is often thought of as a DSLR for moving images, AF is most certainly appropriate in many situations.

Anyway, I would love to be able to change between the Birger Canon mount and the PL mount quickly, reliably, safely, and consistently.

I don't know if this will be possible with the new mount. Red seems to be tight-lipped about it, and perhaps justifiably so.

A mount like the P + S one would be great, but either way I'm grateful for the new mount and Red's commitment to making Red One the very best camera it can be.

Even if the workaround for switching lens mounts is time consuming and complicated, it's still amazing that I can shoot with the Birger / Canon for AF, and PL cinema glass ON THE SAME CAMERA!

-Thor

 

[Michael Brennan]

1:1 is next step.

1:1 is next step.

Without 1:1 the adjustable mount is for use by technicians with collimator only.

But lets imagine 1:1 feature isn't too far away for RED!
Can we use experience with HD lenses as reference? Unless I am missing something about single plane cameras I think so.

Being able to put a lens on a HD camera and check its performance on a 24 inch 1:1 monitor is very useful in evaluating a lens from a rental company or a new lens from a manufacturer.

You can see soft spots, aberrations poor tracking ect.
1:1 also enables instant check of back focus before and during a shoot.

The two work hand in hand. Is the image soft on the wide end? Check backfocus. Is it still soft then it is the lens. (assuming lens mount remains square to the sensor)

There is nothing more satisfying than checking that a critical wide shot that the lens is absolutely spot on.


If adjusting backfocus on set can work with 22x and 42x 2/3 inch lens it will work for 5x and 10x 35mm lenses.

Would it be easier if the backfocus adjustment was on each lens, yes.


Incorrect operation for setting backfocus gave Panavised f900s a lot of bad press in the early days when most of the time it was operator error and inexperience.

I expect the same situation will arise with RED.



Mike Brennan

 

[Stephen Williams]

Here is the new adjustable PL mount for the RED ONE. It rocks pretty hard!

Jim

Hi Jim,

What are the screws made out of? I can see black screws with silver poking through where the allen key fits in.

Stephen

 

[chuck colburn]

Stephen,

Rumor has it they are depleated uranium. Like what they make the rounds out of for the A10 Warthog. Very tough stuff.

 

[Brook Willard]

If you put the camera in 2K mode and then use the 2X zoom, it's either very close to 1:1 or is exactly 1:1. It's a workaround, yes, but it helps.

I hope those screws are [finally] stainless! I'm tired of rusty cameras.

 

[Stephen Williams]

I hope those screws are [finally] stainless! I'm tired of rusty cameras.

Hi Brook,

Are you saying some of the screws were rusty?

Stephen

 

[Brook Willard]

I've seen rust on the screws on several RED bodies and accessories, yes. That said, it has no bearing on the performance of the camera and the rust is nowhere near severe enough to be concerned about. The aforementioned parts were also used in extremely humid and salty conditions. It's just not as pretty. I'm sure there are benefits to the hardware that RED uses that I'm just not privy to.

I'm being cautious because I don't want people to freak out. It's cosmetic.

 

[Stephen Williams]

I've seen rust on the screws on several RED bodies and accessories, yes. That said, it has no bearing on the performance of the camera and the rust is nowhere near severe enough to be concerned about. The aforementioned parts were also used in extremely humid and salty conditions. It's just not as pretty. I'm sure there are benefits to the hardware that RED uses that I'm just not privy to.

Hi Brook,

Are you talking about production cameras, i.e less than 4 months old or prototype cameras?

Stephen

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Blair's camera had some rusty screws didn't it? #>10

 

[Brook Willard]

I'm strictly talking about production cameras - I had no hands-on time with beta cameras beyond NAB.

 

[chuck colburn]

Steel screws oxidizing on aluminum can act like welding. Best to keep a little grease, anti-oxidant or anti-sieze compound on the threads. Or use a stainless screw.

 

[Brook Willard]

We've been planning on buying SS screws for all of our bodies... will replacing those screws [one by one, never opening the body] void the warranty?

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Rust never sleeps

Rust never sleeps

#19 did have some rust on the screws but I echo Brook, it is a cosmetic issue only. It should be prominently noted that when I was at RED last week for a tune up, they replaced the screws at no charge and even gave me a few extras at no charge.

That being said, I was pimping the Element Technica guys to market stainless steel screws for the RedOne because I think they would be a nice upgrade. Perhaps the alloy screws are better at staying put than stainless would be, I am not a metallurgist or a mechanical engineer - I just want my gear to look properly maintained when I walk on set.

 

[chuck colburn]

There is no practical difference in the retention strength between a plain steel screw and a stainless one if they are the equivilant class of screw and mating hole, like a class 2a thread or whatever. A class 2a thread achieves it's maximum holding power at four threads, anything else is excess.

 

[Mike Prevette]

You learn something new every day. . .

There is no practical difference in the retention strength between a plain steel screw and a stainless one if they are the equivilant class of screw and mating hole, like a class 2a thread or whatever. A class 2a thread achieves it's maximum holding power at four threads, anything else is excess.

 

[chuck colburn]

You learn something new every day. . .

Yeah think about that the next time your under you car removing that top bolt on the starter that you only reach with an offset box wrench and will only turn an eight of a turn at at a time and it's an inch longer then it has to be.

 

[Dongfang Hong]

All In One,

I would also like to see a similar solution.

I plan to mix between PL glass and the Birger mount with Canon lenses to take advantage of the AF features that Erik is planning for 2nd Q 2008...

-Thor

Thor,

Thank you for supporting my request although you ask for the P+S solution for a very, very different reason.

What I'd really want to do is to swap between Leica R (wishfully Leica M also), Contax, Nikon, Canon, Hasselblad or even PL mount (large aperture wide angle only because I can't afford a full set) lenses on set easily.

With the corresponding interchangeable mount already attached to a particular lens (literally a universal adapter), it would be very handy in the real world situation. This universal mount will certainly make the RED camera system more flexible and economical to use for a lot of us.

However, if Brook Willard is correct, it's too late to make this request. "The ship has sailed" so to speak. Actually, for what it is worth, I made a similar design request, without the reference of P+S system naturally, more than a year ago.

I hope my voice represents a significant number of RED users and is heard by the decision makers in the company. If not, I hope P+S or any third party could step up and do something along this line for us.

Thanks.

 

[Mike Prevette]

It is simpler to swap mounts on the RED than any single mount cinema camera ever.

 

[Wes Printz]

If different lenses are not calibrated, it is the lens that is out. That is a big problem in this industry. Not all PL mount lenses are accurate or calibrated properly.

If the original RED mount was set up correctly and the lenses are properly calibrated, there is/was no problem.

<Snip>

Now, they are absolutely set up properly at RED. If there is ANY reason why they need to be checked and adjusted (not likely but possible) it is a piece of cake.

Just keep in mind that there are two things that need to be right... the camera AND the lens.

Jim

If PL lenses were not accurate or calibrated properly, then how would one correctly set up the mount? let alone pull focus on the lens? All focus pullers I know have to trust the marks on the lens, as it's their butt on the line. If the lens is out, then it MUST be corrected before using it. Bottom line.

In setting up the mount, one would have to ensure their lens is spot on, before proceeding further. This is best done on a projector or collimator, then onto a known good camera to check tape / eye focus. Once the PL mount is set up, any lens will and should go on, with all marks being accurate, if not then it's time to check the FFD of the camera. How is this achieved on RED? Is there a procedure devised yet? I.E. taking a prime at a fixed distance and looking at a High Frequency resolution chart and adjusting for optimum gain on the WFM at a specified freq. range?

Given the history of PL mounts on ARRI, Aaton, Moviecam, once the FFD is set, you can shoot your entire job with relative confidence if you have done your prep thoroughly, as the shim thickness wil not change. Unless the camera takes a hit, or your dolly grip decides to push the dolly down the street with your Optimo hanging off the front unsupported, the FFD should hold.

I have heard stories of the old mount and what a nightmare it was to get set up at times. I can only imagine the new mount is superior.