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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New mount...

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I recall reading here that the new batch of cameras onwards were ditching the built-in threading in favour of high grade helicoils. I presume that this is being done not only to protect the body but also to solve the rust issue. Won't know for sure until someone from Red confirms or denies it though....

Paul
 
hi red heads,
i don`t had the time to read all 13 pages with full concentration. does somebody just were talking about, that the new mount is now able to do macro shots.
if you can manage the backfocus, so it also could be usefull for macro shots. logical, the distance marks are for this out of work.
 
Hi,

The chance of the adjustment being enough for macro shots is slim. I have a Fries Mitchell with 8 inches of bellows extension, I wish it had more!

Stephen
 
visceralpsyche said:
I recall reading here that the new batch of cameras onwards were ditching the built-in threading in favour of high grade helicoils. I presume that this is being done not only to protect the body but also to solve the rust issue. Won't know for sure until someone from Red confirms or denies it though....

Paul
Click to expand...

The rust is just on the screws, not on the body.

I was the one that made that post you're referring to. The camera definitely uses helicoils today, but I'm not 100% sure if they did as of the first shipment... they very well may have in hind sight.
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi,

The chance of the adjustment being enough for macro shots is slim. I have a Fries Mitchell with 8 inches of bellows extension, I wish it had more!

Stephen
Click to expand...

hi stephen,

what is a fries mitchell? perhaps you can explain me or send a photo. have no idea what it could be, the translator only says something like french fries :innocent:

greetz manolo
 
It's not the mount on the camera that allows you to do macro shots, it's what you put in the mount and the minimum focus distance. Most CF prime lenses have a minimum of around 2-3 feet, you could add diopters on these or on the other end, use a long zoom.

A shot done a couple of weeks ago in a feature currently shooting was a close-up of someone's eye. long end of a 24-275, Diopter, @ 10' gave Full frame, this is a popular way to get your macro shot.
 
MANXLX said:
hi stephen,

what is a fries mitchell? perhaps you can explain me or send a photo. have no idea what it could be, the translator only says something like french fries :innocent:

greetz manolo
Click to expand...

Hi,

This is a Fries Mitchell AF35R. Note the old Nikon lens!
 
Mitch Gross said:
You must have used a Phantom with the old mount that was not properly shimmed. Vision Research (manufacturer of the Phantom) issued an announcement last month (I reposted it on CML and Cinematography.com but not here) stating that the PL lens mount had been redesigned and would be replaced free of charge on all Phantom cameras. The new mount fits perfectly with every lens we 've tested, and believe me that we've tried a huge variety. As someone else mentioned, there are many PL lens flanges on various oddball optics and adapters that are not quite at Arri's design standard. They all now fit. So do the Panavision lenses for the PV mount we offer for the Phantom. At Abel we set the mount depth and centering on every Phantom we sell or rent as part of our standard QC program.

Sorry to hear that you had this problem, but let me assure you that we are working with Vision Research to make sure such issues are a thing of the past. Just like RED is doing.

Don't want to shill, just that you mentioned Phantom so I figured I should let you know.

Mitch Gross
Abel Cine Tech
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Hi Mitch

Thanks for the update.

It's very likely that the camera I was using had an old mount and I know that the rental house wasn't too sure about the shimming. I didn't mean the camera to be the example (I shouldn't have mentioned the model), I was trying to point out the importance of a good port. It's great that the issue has been dealt with as everyone loved the high speed stuff we shot.
 
Peter Sensor said:
On a Nikon mount - you could use a turn around adapter.
Turn your lens around for incredible Macro.
Click to expand...

Hi,

You can do that with any lens, you may need gaffer tape to fix it.
As Depth of Focus is inversely proportional to Depth of Field, its actually quite easy to focus like that!

Stephen
 
Pana-tech said:
If PL lenses were not accurate or calibrated properly, then how would one correctly set up the mount? let alone pull focus on the lens? All focus pullers I know have to trust the marks on the lens, as it's their butt on the line. If the lens is out, then it MUST be corrected before using it. Bottom line.

In setting up the mount, one would have to ensure their lens is spot on, before proceeding further. This is best done on a projector or collimator, then onto a known good camera to check tape / eye focus. Once the PL mount is set up, any lens will and should go on, with all marks being accurate, if not then it's time to check the FFD of the camera. How is this achieved on RED? Is there a procedure devised yet? I.E. taking a prime at a fixed distance and looking at a High Frequency resolution chart and adjusting for optimum gain on the WFM at a specified freq. range?

Given the history of PL mounts on ARRI, Aaton, Moviecam, once the FFD is set, you can shoot your entire job with relative confidence if you have done your prep thoroughly, as the shim thickness wil not change. Unless the camera takes a hit, or your dolly grip decides to push the dolly down the street with your Optimo hanging off the front unsupported, the FFD should hold.

I have heard stories of the old mount and what a nightmare it was to get set up at times. I can only imagine the new mount is superior.
Click to expand...

Also know that the issue is greatly magnified when a zoom is used. In theory, a prime lens could be totally off on its depth and by shimming out the mount you could bring everything back to a correct plane. But with a zoom it's like chasing your tail; everything is moving all the time. If the lens is off and the mount is off you need to get BOTH of them to the correct point or focus will never hold from one end of the zoom to the other. I've seen this -- it's a mess.

I'll say it again: I am not against the new RED One PL lens mount. I think it is great that it is far quicker & easier to adjust the mount. That means that the labor charge to pay someone who knows how to do it right will be low!


Mitch Gross
Technical Director of Rentals
Abel Cine Tech
 
Jannard said:
Here is the new adjustable PL mount for the RED ONE. It rocks pretty hard!

Jim

9_mount34.jpg
Click to expand...

It looks so "Alien"
 
Brook Willard said:
The rust is just on the screws, not on the body.

I was the one that made that post you're referring to. The camera definitely uses helicoils today, but I'm not 100% sure if they did as of the first shipment... they very well may have in hind sight.
Click to expand...
Thanks Brook, I stand corrected.

Cheers,

Paul
 
Mitch Gross said:
I'll say it again: I am not against the new RED One PL lens mount. I think it is great that it is far quicker & easier to adjust the mount. That means that the labor charge to pay someone who knows how to do it right will be low!


Mitch Gross
Technical Director of Rentals
Abel Cine Tech
Click to expand...

Hi Mitch,
How are you setting up the camereas FFD now? I understand that it's a bit hard to do with much accuracy on a single sensor electronic camera. But I've also heard rumors about secret propietary techniques at PV for setting the genesis.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
helicoils have always been on production red cameras. The body is aluminum, and hasn't had a rust problem.
 
Will you provide zincs?

Will you provide zincs?

Jarred Land said:
helicoils have always been on production red cameras. The body is aluminum, and hasn't had a rust problem.
Click to expand...

Will you provide zincs for those who use the RED in salt water? As you probably know, when immersed in salt water the aluminum will start to dissolve away around the helicoils unless you provide a sacrificial metal with a higher electrical potential than the aluminum.
 
Matt Uhry said:
Hi Mitch,
How are you setting up the camereas FFD now? I understand that it's a bit hard to do with much accuracy on a single sensor electronic camera. But I've also heard rumors about secret propietary techniques at PV for setting the genesis.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Click to expand...

I'll have to find out just how much I'm allowed to say. We developed a technique as well as some specialized custom pieces of gear so that we now have a system that will work with any camera. I know what Panavision's system is for the Genesis. It is very accurate and easy to use, but it is also custom specific to the Genesis. They would have to engineer a variant for the RED One, Phantom or any other single sensor digital camera.

BTW, we need to begin this process even before these cameras were around. It was necessary for properly adjusting the oculars for devices such as the MOVIEtube.

Not trying to be evasive or pithy, just have to find out what I'm allowed to share. I can say this: if you have a wide angle lens set to perfect collimation based on an optical bench collimator ($40K or so), than you can use it as a guide to setting the camera's mount.


Mitch Gross
Technical Director of Rentals
Abel Cine Tech
 
Will you provide zincs for those who use the RED in salt water? As you probably know, when immersed in salt water the aluminum will start to dissolve away around the helicoils unless you provide a sacrificial metal with a higher electrical potential than the aluminum.
Click to expand...
I'm curious here (and I don't do underwater work so I don't know much about that area)...

If your camera is immersed in any water, wouldn't you have much bigger problems to worry about? Or are we talking about a splash of water accidentally getting on the camera?
 
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