New mount...

[Brook Willard]

If there's a chance that the camera could be splashed, it should be in a housing or bag.

If you're just referring to salt spray from being near an ocean... then that makes a bit more sense. That said, I wouldn't call it "immersed" - and there should be screws in the holes that might be damaged from salt water.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Absolutely correct sir.

Absolutely correct sir.

I'm curious here (and I don't do underwater work so I don't know much about that area)...

If your camera is immersed in any water, wouldn't you have much bigger problems to worry about? Or are we talking about a splash of water accidentally getting on the camera?

That was my attempt at wry humor. (Forgive me, I'm suffering from just watching the Miami Dolphins lose their 13 game of the season on their way to the worst season ever for an NFL team.) Basically, I thought it was kind of funny that people were thinking that the REDs out there were rusting since I thought just about everyone knew it was made of aluminum, and I was sort of adding to the absurdity by implying that you ought to be able to immerse your red in salt water. (And I hope they never make it submersible since my main business is making underwater housings for cameras - we've already sold a couple housings for the RED and prototypes are being used as we speak.) I did put the little wink symbol on that post.

 

[GlennChan]

Ah, that... makes sense.

I think that calls for a random smiley.

 

[Wes Printz]

Will you provide zincs for those who use the RED in salt water? As you probably know, when immersed in salt water the aluminum will start to dissolve away around the helicoils unless you provide a sacrificial metal with a higher electrical potential than the aluminum.

Are you referring to zinc plated screws or camera body?

A good form of protection is preventative maintenance. And DON'T immerse your RED in salt water. I spent 3 months on a job over in Australia (Nov/Dec/Jan) shooting every day on the water in Far North Queensland. Not a single failure related to water, mechanical or electrical. Corrosion was kept to a minimum as well.

I used CRC 2-26 every night to wipe the gear down.

For users in North America:
http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/content/prod_detail.aspx?PN=02005&S=Y

In the Austral Asia region:
http://www.tesa.co.nz/cgi-bin/cgimain.exe?FORMNAME=PRODCAT&CODE=CRC-226

"Plastic safe lubricant, penetrant and corrosion inhibitor that helps prevent electrical malfunctions caused by water penetration, humidity, condensation or corrosion. Restores resistance values and helps stop current leakage."

Global Web Page:
http://www.crcindustries.com/crcwebmain/

This is a top-notch product, and won't go anywhere near a water shoot without it. After wiping down and cleaning your gear, spray it on a cloth, wipe a VERY LIGHT coating, and put the gear in its case for the next day.

Let's try to get this thread back on topic...

 

[Zaphod]

Yeah, Does New Mount Have an End Stop?

Yeah, Does New Mount Have an End Stop?

so what we found at shooting was, that the ring of the mount to tighten had no end point. so when no lens is on the mount the ring was going through... is that now the same on the new mount ????

regards
rainer

Yeah, does the new mount have an end stop?
It's really annoying when a PL mount has the end stop removed.



Also, by the way, other cameras have had adjustable mounts previously (not all shim based). For example the 16SR-II.

 

[Manolo S. Navazo]

hi zaphod,
do you have a photo or can explain where this adjustable mechanic is? got here five 16 sr II with arri bajonett, but couldn't find the trick.

thx manolo

Also, by the way, other cameras have had adjustable mounts previously (not all shim based). For example the 16SR-II.

........some time later............. edited version-.......

ah okey, i found it now. you must unscrew the front-mount desk (?? how to explain with my bad english) and under this there is a screw where you can adjust it in plus and minus distance.

greetz manolo

 

[Matt Uhry]

I'll have to find out just how much I'm allowed to say. We developed a technique as well as some specialized custom pieces of gear so that we now have a system that will work with any camera. I know what Panavision's system is for the Genesis. It is very accurate and easy to use, but it is also custom specific to the Genesis. They would have to engineer a variant for the RED One, Phantom or any other single sensor digital camera.

BTW, we need to begin this process even before these cameras were around. It was necessary for properly adjusting the oculars for devices such as the MOVIEtube.

Not trying to be evasive or pithy, just have to find out what I'm allowed to share. I can say this: if you have a wide angle lens set to perfect collimation based on an optical bench collimator ($40K or so), than you can use it as a guide to setting the camera's mount.


Mitch Gross
Technical Director of Rentals
Abel Cine Tech

Thanks for your reply,

Are you planning to offer FFD tune ups in your LA office ? I understand it's hard to set the FFD using a bench collimator due to the CMOS's nature, the focal plane is not very reflective has a texture that makes it hard to see the collimators critical focus.

Have you seen any thermal expansion factor with the red sensor mount FFD, for instance is it wise to set the camera when it's warm or does this not matter?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[Mitch Gross]

Thanks for your reply,

Are you planning to offer FFD tune ups in your LA office ? I understand it's hard to set the FFD using a bench collimator due to the CMOS's nature, the focal plane is not very reflective has a texture that makes it hard to see the collimators critical focus.

Have you seen any thermal expansion factor with the red sensor mount FFD, for instance is it wise to set the camera when it's warm or does this not matter?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Certainly, we offer this for any camera. I can't tell you costs or time because we have not seen the new mount, but we certainly would not exclude RED cameras from our normal services. As I mentioned previously, at the request of RED we helped out a few owners who needed to have their older shim-based mounts adjusted.

We left those cameras running for quite some time to check for thermal expansion issues and found no change, which is what we expected.

And yes, you can't do it on a standard optical collimator. We use other equipment.

Again, my point here was to be a helpful resource, not to be a salesman for Abel's services. But since you ask... I will say that if you rent lenses from us we will make sure that they are all set to an absolute standard for proper collimation. For a fee we will do the same for your camera's (any camera's) lens mount. If you have your own lenses then we will adjust these for a fee as well. We don't exactly make a lot of money doing this and frankly it takes us away from the activities that do make money. We perform these services as a courtesy to our clients and charge appropriately to cover the costs for our technician's and facilities' time.

Mitch Gross
Technical Director of Rental
Abel Cine Tech

 

[chuck colburn]

Mitch,

Why can't one use a standard autocollimator on a video chip camera?
Short of confusing the filter in front of the chip what is the problem?

thanks,

 

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

Does this new mount have ANYTHING to do with how the RED will interface with the Nikon mount being made by Birger Engineering? I haven't followed the whole collimation issue at all (other than to observe that many have been concerned about it). I will likely never use cinelenses on the camera, only Nikons. But since the mount is coming separate from the camera, I'm wondering if any of the design changes associated with the new mount will make the job of accurately attaching the birger mount to the camera easier than it might have been before.

 

[David Battistella]

But since the mount is coming separate from the camera, I'm wondering if any of the design changes associated with the new mount will make the job of accurately attaching the birger mount to the camera easier than it might have been before.

No. The PL mount calls for the lens to be 52mm from the sensor. The Nikon mount needs to be set to place the lens 47mm from the sensor plane. This means that the mount assembly needs to be changed completely from PL to Nikon so that the lenses may focus properly, etc.

The new mount solves the problem of having to have the lens mount shimmed. The new mount can be set up by a professional (without using shims) and locked in that position (to keep it calibrated).

David

 

[Mitch Gross]

Mitch,

Why can't one use a standard autocollimator on a video chip camera?
Short of confusing the filter in front of the chip what is the problem?

thanks,

An autocollimator reflects light off the surface of the gate to measure correct depth. With a digital sensor there is not only the low pass filter, but then the top surface of the sensor and the interior depth to the "little buckets" of the individual photosites. It is enough of a difference that a good deal of visual interference exists and will not lead to an accurate or even semi-accurate measurement of depth.

I've seen someone try to do it (and know another house that attempts to use this as their method) and it is incorrect and unacceptable by our standards.

Mitch Gross
Technical Director of Rentals
Abel Cine Tech

 

[dmartos]

Taking a wild guess at the new RED PL mount images, it looks like one can remove the "extension tube piece" and fix the PL mount some 16-18mm closer to the camera using shorter screws.

Question: Can this piece be removed or does the back focus mechanism depend on it? If it can be removed, how much closer can the PL mount get to the camera?

I'm trying to anticipate if it will be possible to have a PL mount with reduced Flange Focal Distance (and a working back focus mechanism) to allow the use of PL-SLR lens adapters.

 

[mezmo]

We just finished the new PL mount. Now we can start working on the Nikon mount.

Jim

Why bother, looks like you and the guys have done an excellent job
with this thing. Adapting stiils lenses to a Digital Motion Picture camera
like Red is a waste of time. People should adapt Nikon to PL with retrofit.
Get the focus working in the right direction and solve breathing problems, for starters.
The Nikon mount will always give you problems due to the quality and condition of
a vast array of Nikon lenses out there, some 30 or so years
old and many filled with fungus.
You have done more than enough with this mount and set a PL standard that future customers should have to meet. Move on.
Someone had to say it.
Mezmo.................. ducking for cover.

 

[number6]

Why bother, looks like you and the guys have done an excellent job
with this thing. Adapting stiils lenses to a Digital Motion Picture camera
like Red is a waste of time. People should adapt Nikon to PL with retrofit.
Get the focus working in the right direction and solve breathing problems, for starters.
The Nikon mount will always give you problems due to the quality and condition of
a vast array of Nikon lenses out there, some 30 or so years
old and many filled with fungus.
You have done more than enough with this mount and set a PL standard that future customers should have to meet. Move on.
Someone had to say it.
Mezmo.................. ducking for cover.

Mezmo... Please! Put your teeth in and BITE YOUR TONGUE! (I've just finished buying two Nikon lenses on ebay)

 

[mezmo]

Sorry.
Mezmo

 

[Mitch Gross]

Taking a wild guess at the new RED PL mount images, it looks like one can remove the "extension tube piece" and fix the PL mount some 16-18mm closer to the camera using shorter screws.

Question: Can this piece be removed or does the back focus mechanism depend on it? If it can be removed, how much closer can the PL mount get to the camera?

I'm trying to anticipate if it will be possible to have a PL mount with reduced Flange Focal Distance (and a working back focus mechanism) to allow the use of PL-SLR lens adapters.

While I have not seen it so don't really know the details of it's design, I would doubt that the new RED PL mount can be safely dismantled in this way. I see what you're trying to achieve here, but it is not a good way of going about it. Precision machined moving assemblies should be left in place if at all possible.

Mitch Gross
Abel Cine Tech