NAB13- RED MOTION MOUNT

[Phil Holland]

Jarred wrote "1 stop and chance," witch in english propably means 1,3...

When speaking to a few folks early on at Red's booth during NAB it was described as what will be an equivalent of a 0.33 ND, so a hair darker than a 0.3. Between 0.3 and 0.4. A bit over a stop of loss.

Lets see what happens though. It's a few months away from landing on our camera bodies.

 

[Thibaut de Chemellier]

Will it be possible to have the regular Mounts upgraded to "Motion" ?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

pretty sure welders have this glass in their face-masks. Clear until they spark-up, then darkens to compensate accordingly.

Yes, they do, been using auto-blacking welding helmets since the late '80s. It's convenient and all, but I always got in the habit of closing my eyes just before striking my weld because the initial burst of light still reaches your eyes. The response time is only a few nanoseconds, but after a few full days of welding, I'd feel like my eyes were sun-burnt. Especially on the older hoods where the response time was in milliseconds. LCD shutter glass isn't anything new, but the tech is getting a lot better these days. Many mirrorless DSLR cameras are using it for a shutter. There are also polarization switching panels out there too. I'm still scratching my head as to why TV makers never adopted these for 3D use -- they're not that expensive. Then everyone could have full resolution 3D with passive cheap glasses. My guess is it would add another $80 to the manufacture cost of a 50" TV and it's cheaper to implement LCD shutter glasses and sell those for a high price on their own. All kinda moot moving forward with laser based projection and new OLED and LCD tech that can control and switch polarity right at the cell level. Not to mention that even though 3D has become a standard feature, no one is running out to buy it and no one is stressing that hard over improving it. So baby steps... the current race is all about pixel density.

Will it be possible to have the regular Mounts upgraded to "Motion" ?

I would say the chance of that is almost nil.


As for the motion mount, I'm still eagerly awaiting depth info and other specs to know which lenses I can or can't use with it. IMO, I would much prefer this motion shutter upgrade be part of the sensor block and low pass filter portion of the camera than something embedded in the mount.

 

[Louis Maddalena]

As for the motion mount, I'm still eagerly awaiting depth info and other specs to know which lenses I can or can't use with it. IMO, I would much prefer this motion shutter upgrade be part of the sensor block and low pass filter portion of the camera than something embedded in the mount.

This would be cool, however, just the presence of the filter causes light loss even if you have it set to clear. This is why I am happy it will be in a mount so we can take it off if we ever decide we need all of the light.

 

[Jens Jakob Thorsen]

Hopefully they had a backup generator, or there would be red faces all around should someone have to go when the power went...

It actually stopped working in the last two years before the company folded...So, in plain view...

 

[Paul Ellington]

unless you are shooting with Master Primes , Red Pro Primes , Ultras and the like ... it's nice to be able to go to a 2.8/4 split anyway... It's a nice place to be, so for my point of view, the motion mount is a no brainer... As Ketch would say... Bought...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

This would be cool, however, just the presence of the filter causes light loss even if you have it set to clear. This is why I am happy it will be in a mount so we can take it off if we ever decide we need all of the light.

it could include a means to move the LCD shutter out of the way when not needed... As the motion mount is supposed to have. Still think it belongs more in the camera than within the mount where it's very likely, almost guaranteed, to restrict our lens choices. I'm going to be very surprised if the Optimo DP zooms can still work with the motion mount. Still possible, yes, but they extend pretty far into the imager well.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

It would be shame if the Angie DP zooms can't clear the motion mount. Love their tele centricity, rich look, buttery mechanics, light weight and overall build quality.

While I see the upside of putting this tech right in front of the OLPF rather than in the mount, it sure would be frustrating to need that last stop and not be able to remove it easily.

Cheers - #19

 

[Louis Maddalena]

it could include a means to move the LCD shutter out of the way when not needed... As the motion mount is supposed to have. Still think it belongs more in the camera than within the mount where it's very likely, almost guaranteed, to restrict our lens choices. I'm going to be very surprised if the Optimo DP zooms can still work with the motion mount. Still possible, yes, but they extend pretty far into the imager well.

I understand. I guess we won't know till we get more information or until the ship and people start to see the mounts in the real world. I guess its very possible that they made the mount recessed into the body a little bit. It would be a shame if the mount limited our lens choices, however, I won't go only motion mount, I'll keep my other mounts for when they are needed as well.

 

[Phil Holland]

It would be shame if the Angie DP zooms can't clear the motion mount.

There's a fair amount of cinema primes that protrude back too. I'm sure Red is taking this in account with the design. Some Angie do apparently go pretty far back in there. Tickling the body and all that.

Gotta test them.

 

[Dmitry Burenok]

Active filter can be removable like this:

Could help to save an extra stop and save the filter in case of extra long lens-end

 

[Timur Civan]

ok but what about high speed? 96FPS, 300 FPS, etc.... Can it keep up?

 

[Karl Krings]

super nice!

 

[Jack Smith]

Any chance we have Red Motion for Red ONE MX version?

 

[Sigismund Pikul]

Could somebody help explain this to me because I'm deeply interested in wrapping my head around how this mount works. The way I understand a global shutter with a CMOS sensor is achieved is by attaching pixel-level memory to the sensor so it can hold the information while waiting for the line-by-line readouts of sensor. This means that the size of the photosite per-pixel is smaller since a portion of it is taken up by this memory module, and can only be implemented by the design of a sensor vs a mount.

I get that the Motion Mount is "curving" the exposure by gradually letting more and less light into the sensor as the sensor captures a period of exposure, but I don't understand how this is achieving a global shutter, which would mean that the information that was captured was captured all at once, even if its recorded to memory line-by-line as a CMOS Global Shutter would.

I feel like there is a missing piece that I'm not getting here, most of my information of how this whole she-bang works is based off of this article published by Aptina: Global Shutter Pixel Technologies and CMOS Image Sensors - Aptina

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Can anyone tell the "motion" difference between an Epic rolling shutter and a global shutter camera apart from freeze framing high speed pans? I will buy this mount to escape the tyranny of ND filters but the Global shutter capability does not excite me. Not once in 5 years of shooting Red One and Epics has the rolling shutter been an issue. Am I missing something here?

 

[Phil Holland]

Can anyone tell the "motion" difference between an Epic rolling shutter and a global shutter camera apart from freeze framing high speed pans? I will buy this mount to escape the tyranny of ND filters but the Global shutter capability does not excite me. Not once in 5 years of shooting Red One and Epics has the rolling shutter been an issue. Am I missing something here?

For the most part I find Epic and Scarlet rolling shutter to appear "filmish". It's pretty close. However, some folks want that a purer image. If for instance you're shooting something fast that's rotating you would currently get one result, which would give you that slanted rolling shutter effect due to the read out. However, if you want a natural circular motion blur, much like what we see with our own eyes that's kinda what this does.

Another good example would be pointing your Epic outside of a train window as it's traveling quickly across the country side. You'll see slanted phone poles, trees, and such. Global Shutter activated and everything gets vertical, not slanted.

The interesting and rather cool thing about this is that you can activate and deactivate global shutter, strobe/flicker safe mode, and of course ND filtration.

 

[Augusto Giachino]

I get that the Motion Mount is "curving" the exposure by gradually letting more and less light into the sensor as the sensor captures a period of exposure, but I don't understand how this is achieving a global shutter, which would mean that the information that was captured was captured all at once, even if its recorded to memory line-by-line as a CMOS Global Shutter would.

I have the same question a Sigismund. The sensor is still scanning, how does it get to global shutter?

 

[Tom Gleeson]

I'm sure VFX people will be happy with a global shutter for comps but the slight lean of vertical on fast motion in general work has never been problematic nor even spotted by a client.

 

[Mark Britton]

I get that the Motion Mount is "curving" the exposure by gradually letting more and less light into the sensor as the sensor captures a period of exposure, but I don't understand how this is achieving a global shutter, which would mean that the information that was captured was captured all at once, even if its recorded to memory line-by-line as a CMOS Global Shutter would.

Shutter closes. No more light hits sensor. Sensor is read out while the shutter is closed. No additional exposure reaches the sensor while the sensor is being "scanned". So any motion blur skew that would have happened is prevented because the shutter is blocking off light during the sensor readout.

Reading all lines at the same time would be a way to achieve a "global" sensor readout. But the motion mount is a shutter approach and is working in front of the sensor. It's blocking light to freeze the exposure so the image skew can't happen.