NAB13- DSMC FAN 2.0 Upgrade Kit

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

I'm curious as to what Red thinks of this. I became hesitant to make my purchase after reading this thread. I may just wait for the 2.1 or something.

Same here. This really seems to be a problem that RED can/should solve 100%. Just like that other lemo connector thread issue elsewhere on this forum. Small things that RED should just knock out of the park. Lay to rest. Pick your metaphor.

 

[Anton Klima]

shooting with A and B cam upgraded (bottom and top) to 2.0 on a movie, no problems, great cooling capacity, only wish: WOULD LOVE TO HAVE LOWER FAN SETTINGS IN MANUAL REC MODE !!!
sometimes doing very quiet scenes with 2 cameras in a narrow location the min. 25% rec setting is still to high (while the temp is at a comfortable range)

 

[Patrick Tresch]

shooting with A and B cam upgraded (bottom and top) to 2.0 on a movie, no problems, great cooling capacity, only wish: WOULD LOVE TO HAVE LOWER FAN SETTINGS IN MANUAL REC MODE !!!
sometimes doing very quiet scenes with 2 cameras in a narrow location the min. 25% rec setting is still to high (while the temp is at a comfortable range)

Try the original fan only. You'll get less noise at min setting. And put something in front of the fan (like a sound blimp cover) without cutting the air intake. Most of the fan noise is generated from the front fan directed to the subject. You can clearly hear the difference if you put your hand in front of the front Fan and taking it away. I don't want to design this cover as none will buy it... But I may make a prototype for me... ;-)

Pat

PS: in Adaptive mode if the temp is lower than the target temp the fan spinns slower than what you can preset in Manual mode. But You'll manage to make only a 1 to 2 minutes takes before getting higher fan speed.

 

[Will Keir]

The upgraded fans are more noise in RECORD?

WTF kind of upgrade is that? I want those fans powered down while recording, which is what I got now. Why would I upgrade?

 

[George A.]

I'll ask again... when will RED start modifying the existing Top Plates to accomodate the new top fan?

Thanks!

 

[Phil Holland]

The upgraded fans are more noise in RECORD?

WTF kind of upgrade is that? I want those fans powered down while recording, which is what I got now. Why would I upgrade?

I don't get why there's a lot of discussion and confusion on this particular topic. Let's just knock some things out:

- The DSMC Fan 2.0 system is an optional upgrade.
- You can purchase both or individual fans depending on your needs and installation is very simple.
- The DSMC Fan 2.0 upgrade interacts with the camera's fan algorithms. This is important.
- The new fans "can be" louder, specifically the bottom fan compared to the older fan, as it moves more air. It also allows it to run quieter as it moves more air.
- The new fan algorithms are where the party is at. Old fans or new fans, both benefit from the new code.
- The new fans show their real strengths under standard and "extreme" shooting situations especially in hotter outdoors scenarios.


The new fans are indeed an upgrade. While I wouldn't say the new fans are not a required upgrade, the do actually perform better than the old single bottom fan. Especially when used together. Keep in mind it's a subtle thing switching out the new bottom fan with the old one. The top fan is something both benefit from. The gains aren't major. The gains are subtle, however noticeable and some desire that.


I'll re-post my audio sample. I need to stress that this is literally using the gear that we use to record sound on set (and heck ADR sessions too) and I've boosted the audio +9.9dB to show the devil in the details.

The microphone goes from 12 inches to 20 inches from the camera, to nearly touching the fans themselves (you can hear me bang into the camera at one point), and I also step away from the camera to about 5 feet. I also get the microphone in "on camera mounted" positions. The sample in this clip was used at 70 degrees and the newer Adaptive fan algorithm. I run these days between 65 and 70 degrees, just depending on what I'm doing.

http://www.artbyphil.com/temp/reduser/phfx_DSMCFAN2pointOSounds.mp3

 

[Patrick Grossien]

Try the original fan only. You'll get less noise at min setting. And put something in front of the fan (like a sound blimp cover) without cutting the air intake. Most of the fan noise is generated from the front fan directed to the subject. You can clearly hear the difference if you put your hand in front of the front Fan and taking it away. I don't want to design this cover as none will buy it... But I may make a prototype for me... ;-)

About the blimp: if you feel that you need one, maybe the dust filter from grid acc is an option? If the material they use is not enough, I'm guessing it's easily switched.

 

[Rob Castiglione]

Hi Anton. In the latest beta software manual mode has been removed altogether. Really hoping Red reconsiders this.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

I decided to spend the money on izotope rx3 instead for now.

i'd love for RED to come up with a 2.1 upgrade to this that also takes into consideration the top plate I already have. Its just way too many iffy things with this upgrade. I can't wholeheartedly agree with the idea that this is an optional upgrade. Yeah, technically maybe, but we really do need to have quieter fans on quiet sets, and that's the upgrade I was hoping this could have been.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I decided to spend the money on izotope rx3 instead for now.

i'd love for RED to come up with a 2.1 upgrade to this that also takes into consideration the top plate I already have. Its just way too many iffy things with this upgrade. I can't wholeheartedly agree with the idea that this is an optional upgrade. Yeah, technically maybe, but we really do need to have quieter fans on quiet sets, and that's the upgrade I was hoping this could have been.

Hello Nikhil,

I understand your desapointment, but why do you do it in post if there are some other solutions out there?

See you.

Pat

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Hello Nikhil,

I understand your desapointment, but why do you do it in post if there are some other solutions out there?

See you.

Pat

Do you mean adding that blimp cover you mentioned earlier, Patrick? I suppose I could do that, and any number of things on set, and sometimes you do have to - even if the fans were absolutely silent, there may be other noises you have to blanket out.

My hope is that since RED iterated on the original fans, which is great, they will iterate again to address the issues being pointed out (Phil's results notwithstanding).

Basically, raise the comfort level of buying these fans. Or atleast formally respond to all these comments so that someone like me can understand what their view is on this feedback from several users.

 

[John Marchant]

Hi Anton. In the latest beta software manual mode has been removed altogether. Really hoping Red reconsiders this.

Red have a habit of listening, I wouldn't panic.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

I don't get why there's a lot of discussion and confusion on this particular topic. Let's just knock some things out:

- The DSMC Fan 2.0 system is an optional upgrade.

Not in my view, Phil. I shot a short and one of the locations had hardwood floors, and was very quiet. The fan sound was embarrassingly loud. Even if I get over the embarrassment, which I can as I'm an indie filmmaker (read: shameless) it impacts the actors' performance to hear this constant sound. IMHO. This isn't an optional upgrade if you see this as an issue that needs fixing.

- You can purchase both or individual fans depending on your needs and installation is very simple.

I can't purchase top fan as its incompatible with the top plate. So installation is not possible, forget about 'very simple'. Won't purchase bottom fan based on a seeming consensus that it does have issues.

- The DSMC Fan 2.0 upgrade interacts with the camera's fan algorithms. This is important.

Understood. Another thread where the new algorithms might have bugs that brick the camera (when you go into sleep mode, i believe?) don't make me a fan (no pun intended) of adaptive. I'd rather have QUIET fans that I can leave on all the time, and lower for record if location is very quiet.

- The new fans "can be" louder, specifically the bottom fan compared to the older fan, as it moves more air. It also allows it to run quieter as it moves more air.

OK. I think we need them to be quieter.

- The new fan algorithms are where the party is at. Old fans or new fans, both benefit from the new code.

See above re: algorithms and bugs.

- The new fans show their real strengths under standard and "extreme" shooting situations especially in hotter outdoors scenarios.

OK. But they first need to work for the scenario I'm really interested in - quiet locations.


Just thought I'd respond to your post so RED knows there's another viewpoint/need. Glad they work well for you tho, Phil. Hope I can get there soon myself. This is really a more important (required) upgrade for me than the DRAGON even.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Understood. Another thread where the new algorithms might have bugs that brick the camera (when you go into sleep mode, i believe?) don't make me a fan (no pun intended) of adaptive. I'd rather have QUIET fans that I can leave on all the time, and lower for record if location is very quiet.

Hello Nikhil,

I understand that people get afraid when some issues are raised. But I shoot all my productions in ADAPTIVE mode and had no issue at all. I'm not using the current "risky" Beta build but the 4.0.12 build and must tell that the fan speed setting is a huge difference in preformance increase and therefore way silenter camera.

Adaptive mode is (for me) a real game changer. Kudos to RED!

Regarding the other options... I'll send you a PM.

See you.

Patrick

 

[Rob Castiglione]

Cheers John. You are right about Red listening.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

And it's manifested.

There is no "risky" Beta as far as we know. People assume too much.
For example the deal with Dominik's Epic was that screws were driven into the body and metal shavings inside the body caused a short.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

And it's manifested.

There is no "risky" Beta as far as we know. People assume too much.
For example the deal with Dominik's Epic was that screws were driven into the body and metal shavings inside the body caused a short.

Wasn't Jay who had the trouble?

We still don't know if it was a FW problem...

Pat

 

[Patrick Grossien]

True, Jay mentioned it first. But it spawned a firmware scare.
Nonetheless BombSquad couldn't reproduce it and there's no firmware bricking as far as we know.

 

[Ivan Kovax]

Ok, so I don't know what to think. I've had my own experience, my first impression was "something must be wrong this particular fan that I have" then I hear the first fan test (I can't remember who posted it) and I say "wow, that's how my fan sounds, unless they put out a batch of defective fans (which I doubted) I guess that's how it's supposed to sound, so I like a few others opt for the original bottom fan and (new) top fan combo, run manual fan mode @ 36% rec 70-75 as suggested by Rob Castiglione, I'm definitely not comfortable running my camera in adaptive at 70 especially not for long periods. Then Phil posts his test (thanks by the way) so I think, "hey, maybe I should put my new bottom fan back in.." before I do I decide to test and this is what I get.

https://vimeo.com/73274513
password:fannoise

So, as I said in the audio clip I'm almost 9ft away from the camera. The new fan isn't actually louder (thought it's not a whole lot quieter either) but as many have said it's just a different sound of which the original bottom fan is my preference as it sounds more like room tone, the new fan sound is a deliberate "whine" that I can see being a pain to take out. Also one other interesting note is that the new fan combo ran only 2-3% lower than with the original bottom fan, which I though was interesting. Again, i'm not sure what to think and really don't want to go thru the trouble to fill out a ticket only to find out that there's nothing wrong with the fan, that it's operating correctly :001_huh:.

Did you redicover hardware or reinstall firmware after installing the fan? Because the new algorithms for the new fans won't actually work otherwise.

My fan is running at 12% during record (it slowly rises) and at around 45% during preview. I am using quiet record mode and couldn't be more happy with the results.

Compared to a week ago without the fans, it was running at higher temps at minimum of 25% during record and 75% during preview during using the same mode (quiet record mode). Major bloody difference if you ask me.

EDIT: I should add that I am currently in Thailand where it is between 30-35 degrees Celsius every day. Camera hasn't even broken a sweat, even in a room full of lights. Sound guys love it to death.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

My fan is running at 12% during record (it slowly rises) and at around 45% during preview.

What fan setting do you get in a 30 minutes long take (say at 23C°)?
How do you measure that you get 12% fan speed?
I can't access the vimeo link. The password does not work do you have a way to look at it?

Thanks a lot.


Pat