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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- DSMC FAN 2.0 Upgrade Kit

Rob Castiglione said:
I agree with Patrick that some more information is required concerning optimal temperature.

Running the camera continuously at 70 degrees sounds kind of hot. My camera generally never gets up to those kinds of temperatures. Is that going to affect the life of the camera or is it perfectly ok to do that for long periods?
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From the manual:

"The Target Temperature range is 45°-75° Celsius; the default is 55° Celsius".

That's the targeted operational range and has been the spec for a while now. It's when it goes outside of that range that the camera can potentially stop recording and/or shutdown.

Indoors in a temperate environment you may find that it takes some time for your camera to get up to 70°C and you'll notice that running at that temperature produces a pretty quiet fan.

The key thing is to black shade once your camera is up to temp.


Here's the quick reference for the Temperature Indications on your screen:

At 72°C the temperature display will turn YELLOW.
At 74°C it turns ORANGE, fan mode settings are overridden and the fans go to max speed.
At 76°C it turns the temperature indicator turns RED.
At 77°C if you are recording, the recording will be stopped.
At 83°C the camera will shutdown no matter what.


Any hotter the core explodes and the rebels have won :)

In reality though, the camera with the new algorithms manages the temperature very well. I've burned 3 20 minute takes at 70°C with Adaptive and they look good. I also black shaded at 70°C. Indoors it's nice and quiet at this setting.
 
Cheers Phil. Its always reassuring to know the facts. I should get my fan upgrade next week and I cant wait to install. It is major fix of a long standing problem. I guess it is also good to have a second fan just in case one fails.
 
Maik Müller Menendez said:
One thing comes in mind. Think about the blackshading-profiles, they're somehow bound to a temperature-range and with this setting you can force the camera to stay within that area, even if you go from a cooled room into the summer-heat outside.
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Very true. But then again I could black shade to the temperature offered by the setting. ;)
 
My question is, (generally) what is the highest (old) fan speed % acceptable for audio? I realize that the camera can be at wildly various distances from where the sound is being picked up.
From my experience in a normal distance from where the sound is being picked up (at least 6-8 ft) 45% fan speed is the limit for me.


My thoughts/experiences (I have the old fans, wait for the new ones to come in):

The new algorithms are cool. I've played with "adaptive" and "quiet record", in a room that was 75-80 degrees F. With adaptive set at 68 degrees i was able to roll for about 5 mins before the fan got to 45%. In "quiet record" I rolled for about 20 mins and cut after that because I got uncomfortable with my camera funning at 72 degrees! it was going back and forth between 41 & 42% when I cut and seemed like it wold have given me at least another 10 mins or more before it got to 45%. I have the top and bottom fans on the way and if they are a lot quieter at the same fan speeds as the old ones then it seems like the fan noise issue will practically nonexistent. After reading Phil's experience and comparing it to mine using that "adaptive" feature they must be a great improvement. Either way it's an upgrade and has knocked a big one off the "cons" list of things to be said about the camera.
 
Jamon Lewis said:
My question is, (generally) what is the highest (old) fan speed % acceptable for audio?
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It depends whom you ask. Most camera guys will tell you a number between 25~50. But almost all audio guys will say 30 and bellow... ;o)

:sifone: Peter
 
Phil Holland said:
You're going to want to reconsider the ideas of running at certain percentages. While the Auto fan setting is tried and true, really take a look at the new Adaptive setting in particular. That's what I'm rolling with using the new DSMC Top and Bottom 2.0 Fans. I have the target setup at 70, black shaded to that, and the camera just runs....... quietly. There's a sound It's sort of freaking me out.

Pretty confident that Adaptive and Quiet Record are going to be popular on set while rolling audio.
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Thanks for the input Phil.

I have been stung by the delta between rolling and standby noise levels. While shooting I try to be <37% (unless I'm right next to talent), but I leave it at auto so as soon as I cut the hair dryer comes back on (with 3.3.15... only recently upped to 4.0.12). I have yet to have a sound guy not shake their head for the first couple of hours shooting (and they say they shoot RED all the time... must be R1). I'm going to try the adaptive -- 65c? -- and see what that does. I don't know where the camera temp sits at 37% but I'd hate for it to go above ~40% while shooting with adaptive on.

Regardless, I still think it's a stupid problem to have. And having to pay $450 for the solution (that should have been implemented from the get-go) is a little rinky-dink, if you ask me.
 
Mike P. said:
Thanks for the input Phil.

I have been stung by the delta between rolling and standby noise levels. While shooting I try to be <37% (unless I'm right next to talent), but I leave it at auto so as soon as I cut the hair dryer comes back on (with 3.3.15... only recently upped to 4.0.12). I have yet to have a sound guy not shake their head for the first couple of hours shooting (and they say they shoot RED all the time... must be R1). I'm going to try the adaptive -- 65c? -- and see what that does. I don't know where the camera temp sits at 37% but I'd hate for it to go above ~40% while shooting with adaptive on.

Regardless, I still think it's a stupid problem to have. And having to pay $450 for the solution (that should have been implemented from the get-go) is a little rinky-dink, if you ask me.
Click to expand...


I'm also waiting for my fan upgrade here.
I usually shoot with the same % in stand-by and record so no one hears when we cut (pleasant for doc environments).
I'm at 40%/40% quite often and I hope I will get to 30-35% stand-by and record with the upgrade...

@ Phil: after your first tests, do you think this might be achievable?
Thx!!
 
I would like to know the max record times folks (with the new fans) are getting with the "adaptive" feature set at the a high temp vs "quiet record"...:bigear:
 
Mike P. said:
Thanks for the input Phil.

I have been stung by the delta between rolling and standby noise levels. While shooting I try to be <37% (unless I'm right next to talent), but I leave it at auto so as soon as I cut the hair dryer comes back on (with 3.3.15... only recently upped to 4.0.12). I have yet to have a sound guy not shake their head for the first couple of hours shooting (and they say they shoot RED all the time... must be R1). I'm going to try the adaptive -- 65c? -- and see what that does. I don't know where the camera temp sits at 37% but I'd hate for it to go above ~40% while shooting with adaptive on.
Click to expand...

Basically in my experience as you go down from 70° to 65° to 50° to 45° or whatever in between is that the fans are a bit louder at each increment the lower temperature you go. This is mainly because they are working harder to keep the camera cooler. Makes sense.


Sebastian Winkels said:
I'm also waiting for my fan upgrade here.
I usually shoot with the same % in stand-by and record so no one hears when we cut (pleasant for doc environments).
I'm at 40%/40% quite often and I hope I will get to 30-35% stand-by and record with the upgrade...

@ Phil: after your first tests, do you think this might be achievable?
Click to expand...


It's just a different mode really with Adaptive. The Auto fan mode is a different beast all together. I think you'll be impressed honestly. I showed a dozen folks the new fans today and the sort of unanimous thought was "oh, well that's taken care of".


Jamon Lewis said:
I would like to know the max record times folks (with the new fans) are getting with the "adaptive" feature set at the a high temp vs "quiet record"...:bigear:
Click to expand...

I haven't tested Quiet Record just yet, but I've burned a 20 minute take with Adaptive indoors and it maintain at 70°C comfortably without freaking out. I was watching and listening like a hawk and you can hear when the camera begins to compensate for increase in temp, but then it regulates itself. It's a very slight audible increase.

Sound folks should be pretty happy now.
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Hello Luigi

You allready got yours? Have a nice day.

Pat
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Ciao Pat,
and from 3 days that I'm working with the new fans.
And you do an upgrade?
I think your plate FanPlate is excellent, you are at the Locarno Film Festival this year?
 
Thanks for the clarification Phil!

So, is it right that the fan speed doesn't jump up anymore when going from record to stand-by in adaptive mode?
 
Phil Holland said:
Basically in my experience as you go down from 70° to 65° to 50° to 45° or whatever in between is that the fans are a bit louder at each increment the lower temperature you go. This is mainly because they are working harder to keep the camera cooler. Makes sense.





It's just a different mode really with Adaptive. The Auto fan mode is a different beast all together. I think you'll be impressed honestly. I showed a dozen folks the new fans today and the sort of unanimous thought was "oh, well
I haven't tested Quiet Record just yet, but I've burned a 20 minute take with Adaptive indoors and it maintain at 70°C comfortably without freaking out. I was watching and listening like a hawk and you can hear when the camera begins to compensate for increase in temp, but then it regulates itself. It's a very slight audible increase.

Sound folks should be pretty happy now.
Click to expand...

Phil when you get a chance you should try the "quiet record" mode. I know if it kept my cam below 42% fan speed for a bit over 20 mins I would imagine with the new fans the time should be a lot longer, cooler and at a quitter/lower fan speed. Are the new fan(s) quieter at the same fan speeds than the old ones (i'm sure ut;s been asked)?
 
Just got back from a 3 day shoot where temps went over 120 degrees. With the new top and bottom fans installed, constant flagging of the camera, and a little dry ice in front of the front fan I had zero issues with the camera. I was really happy because the stuff I was shooting was not going to happen more then once on many occasions.
Great job Red.
 
When installing the top fan, I have to remove the top plate on the epic ... i don't seem to have one of those weird little screwdrivers for that size ... does someone know the size/type of screwdriver to remove the top plate (I think it's called the T size)?
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Editing ..... i think it is T08 .
Red Support btw showed me the link on the download page ... i had missed it ... is for sure T8. https://www.red.com/downloads ... look for "DSMC FAN 2.0 UPGRADE INSTRUCTIONS"

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Notes:

Got everything connected (both bottom and top fan) ... is dramatically quieter when shooting in a "studio" environment. Not able to pic up the fans when the mic is within a foot of the camera in a sound recording booth when the "adaptive" mode is turned on(will be real nice for people that shoot in temperature controlled studio's). This allows for recording people whispering on a closeup, or recording small acoustic noises from things like guitars/cello's. Outside the studio/sound stage type environment the fan does kick in and is a bit less loud, but I think is doing a much better job on cooling (i.e. you see the temp just level off rather then climbing, so I don't have to worry about doing a different black shade in a hot environment).
 
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