NAB 2025 - Rumors & Wishlists

[Karim D. Ghantous]

There is a part of me that thinks Nikon/RED might in time swing past MF and imagine something bigger that coincides with a yet to be developed format
specific to exhibitors. This would be in a bid to get people back into the theaters in bigger numbers by offering something that can't be replicated in a living room or home theater.
Something along the lines of a next gen IMAX for larger than large exhibition. Movie theaters need something to differentiate it from what streaming offers and this may be a way to do that. I can see an imaging company like Nikon and a cinema subsidiary like RED doing just that.

I agree. A few years ago I got the idea that cinema will take it up a notch - full sized IMAX. The films will be cheaper to make, because the format is the effect. The format is the attraction. People have been able to do their own lightsaber effects since the days of the G3 iMac, for goodness sakes. The real world is amazing, and IMAX shows it off perfectly. 3D becomes unnecessary, although that adds another dimension again.

Red 8K cameras don't cost that much, and Blackmagic cameras are even cheaper. Give me a good script, take advantage of that huge screen, and I'm sold.

You will need to actually build the cinemas, of course. Will this work? I can't see why not.

 

[M Harvey]

I think that or perhaps an even bigger format might happen but I truly think that is something further down the road. [...] I can see a larger than VV format RED camera being deeply tied to releases of new Nikon glass that will support it but that will take time. [...]
Something along the lines of a next gen IMAX for larger than large exhibition. Movie theaters need something to differentiate it from what streaming offers and this may be a way to do that. I can see an imaging company like Nikon and a cinema subsidiary like RED doing just that.

It's interesting to think about what might attract the public in this regard. What has a "wow" factor, what's different from the home experience? It's widely agreed that widescreen and large formats were driven by these questions in the 1950s. The challenge grows greater today, with ever larger 4k screens, shortened theatrical windows, and a huge amount of choice from streaming services-- there's a perception that "everything is available" at home at all times.

There seems to be at least some interest in seeing movies on film where I live (New York City)-- theaters advertise 35mm prints when they're showing them. Maybe it's akin to the resurgence of interest in vinyl record albums? And the screenings of THE BRUTALIST on 70mm were pretty packed-- they really felt like an event, with an intermission and programs and everything.

With digital, I'm not sure whether the audience cares about sensor size-- or about resolution, for that matter. My sense is that perhaps in the past 70mm felt special for its superior detail on the largest screens (as well as the fact that it was reserved for only truly epic projects-- today we might say it was branded that way). But that experience maybe that feels a little less special since digital capture and projection have made sharp, detailed images in whatever aspect ratio a little more commonplace.

Immersiveness is the quality that I think tends to get foregrounded now-- both in filmmaking technique as well as presentation. The argument for IMAX was always having an immersive experience (more than a technical quality such as the size of the film itself). And that still seems to me to be driving digital IMAX presentations of Christopher Nolan or TOP GUN. An immersive experience is also the sell on The Sphere, which must be one of the biggest recent investments in large format image presentation. And unlike most IMAX, it's also about the uniqueness, an experience that's programmed like a concert venue and now available in a home theater format. (And speaking of large format capture, here again is the American Cinematographer piece on the 18k, 109 mm diagonal"Big Sky" camera designed for The Sphere.)

So what's the logic that makes people leave home to see a movie in coming years? And are we going to see Hollywood or anyone else invest in it at a time when more and more entertainment revenue is either about home or mobile consumption?

 

[Brian Timmons]

Immersiveness is the quality that I think tends to get foregrounded now-- both in filmmaking technique as well as presentation. The argument for IMAX was always having an immersive experience (more than a technical quality such as the size of the film itself). And that still seems to me to be driving digital IMAX presentations of Christopher Nolan or TOP GUN. An immersive experience is also the sell on The Sphere, which must be one of the biggest recent investments in large format image presentation. And unlike most IMAX, it's also about the uniqueness, an experience that's programmed like a concert venue and now available in a home theater format. (And speaking of large format capture, here again is the American Cinematographer piece on the 18k, 109 mm diagonal"Big Sky" camera designed for The Sphere.)

Agreed on the point of immersiveness. That seems to be the next step in many areas (Augmented reality, Apple Vision Pro, etc) but I can see a larger screen as one of the more straightforward ways of getting an immersive experience as it does not require the viewer to use extra hardware (ie. headsets or goggles) to achieve the experience.

So what's the logic that makes people leave home to see a movie in coming years? And are we going to see Hollywood or anyone else invest in it at a time when more and more entertainment revenue is either about home or mobile consumption?

I think people will always want the combination of spectacle and a communal experience and in terms of filmmaking theaters are that place for it to happen.
While artists will always be the vessel for expressing the spectacle they need an appropriate canvas to express it on.
I want to avoid the mentality of bigger being automatically better but there could be some interesting creative possibilities with larger (Sphere like) screens for filmmaking.

It's uncertain times like this that can help create the next step forward.
Will be interesting where things go.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Edith Blazek]

While I guess doubt could be thrown towards the idea of a 65mm camera, I'm still gonna add in a prediction as to what it could look like. Given the history of the red 8kvv sensor from dragon to raptor x of using stitched smaller sensors, I'm gonna bet the range of dimensions it would be in if they wanted to build upon the 5 micron pixel size and I would bet they go the Alexa 65 route by adding a third sensor chip into the mix and modify their height. I'm betting this 5 micron sensor would no narrower than 48.6mm with 9720 pixel resolution and no wider than 54.886mm and a pixel resolution of 10977 with a height no shorter than 25.57mm for low end and no taller than 30.72mm with resolution ranges from 5115 pixels high for dci on the low end and 6144 on the high end with sensor diagonals coming in at 54.916mm on the low end and 62.89mm as the limit, with bearing in mind compatibility with 65mm cinema lenses as I could imagine it larger than these figures but I think red would probably want their 65mm camera to be used as a 65mm camera at least some of the time. I'm guessing they'd probably do lpl for the lens mount.

 

[Brian Timmons]

While I guess doubt could be thrown towards the idea of a 65mm camera, I'm still gonna add in a prediction as to what it could look like. Given the history of the red 8kvv sensor from dragon to raptor x of using stitched smaller sensors, I'm gonna bet the range of dimensions it would be in if they wanted to build upon the 5 micron pixel size and I would bet they go the Alexa 65 route by adding a third sensor chip into the mix and modify their height. I'm betting this 5 micron sensor would no narrower than 48.6mm with 9720 pixel resolution and no wider than 54.886mm and a pixel resolution of 10977 with a height no shorter than 25.57mm for low end and no taller than 30.72mm with resolution ranges from 5115 pixels high for dci on the low end and 6144 on the high end with sensor diagonals coming in at 54.916mm on the low end and 62.89mm as the limit, with bearing in mind compatibility with 65mm cinema lenses as I could imagine it larger than these figures but I think red would probably want their 65mm camera to be used as a 65mm camera at least some of the time. I'm guessing they'd probably do lpl for the lens mount.

That's interesting.
I will say if RED did develop a 65mm camera I wonder if it would be more in cooperation with Panavision.
RED already makes the current DXL2 in partnership with Panavision who has quite a few 65mm lens sets
and directly serves the market that is targeted for such a camera.
Despite Panavision's recent closure of the Hollywood office they are still very much a player.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Edith Blazek]

That's interesting.
I will say if RED did develop a 65mm camera I wonder if it would be more in cooperation with Panavision.
RED already makes the current DXL2 in partnership with Panavision who has quite a few 65mm lens sets
and directly serves the market that is targeted for such a camera.
Despite Panavision's recent closure of the Hollywood office but they are still very much a player.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

But why? There's medium format expanders and focal reducers on the market that could make it viable to sell imo

 

[Brian Timmons]

But why? There's medium format expanders and focal reducers on the market that could make it viable to sell imo

Sure, those are an option too.
RED could always make a version for the wider market, which would be quite likely.
At the end of the day who knows how this could go.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Zack Birlew]

So far the news around the webs is that Blackmagic Design will have a 12K PYXIS camera body at the show! I haven't been to the convention center myself to see if the window art is 100% confirmed in this age of AI but, if true, it is quite the surprise! I wonder what the competition's response will be to this and hopefully this will get it through everybody's heads that we're well past 4K now, it's 8K+ from now on!

Also, I don't know if it is entirely related or not, but I saw that RED Studios has renamed themselves to RSH Studios. Not sure what the name change is for but it brings up a question mark for sure.

 

[fgonz031]

So far the news around the webs is that Blackmagic Design will have a 12K PYXIS camera body at the show! I haven't been to the convention center myself to see if the window art is 100% confirmed in this age of AI but, if true, it is quite the surprise! I wonder what the competition's response will be to this and hopefully this will get it through everybody's heads that we're well past 4K now, it's 8K+ from now on!

Also, I don't know if it is entirely related or not, but I saw that RED Studios has renamed themselves to RSH Studios. Not sure what the name change is for but it brings up a question mark for sure.

Hello Zack I think if the rumors are true RED would be staying behind or is the new CEO of RED Kenji who is doing badly job, Blackmagic is breaking into the market with force and decision, RED come on awake.

 

[Phil Holland]

I don't know

The Nikon acquisition was for RED Digital Cinema. RED Studios Hollywood is owned by Jarred Land. He's changing the name to RSH because the name has been RSH for a long, long time.

It was formerly Ren-Mar, Rowland, and RED. So R.

Also, RED is at NAB 2025 as well as having cameras all over partners booths. I just arrived myself. Show starts Sunday.

 

[Zack Birlew]

Thanks for the clarification, Phil, I was just surprised to see the name change right around NAB like that but I do remember that Jarred owned the studio now that you mention it. I'm looking forward to NAB 2025, it's looking like it will be a big year and hopefully at least some of my predictions hold true!

 

[Zack Birlew]

Summary of my predictions for 2025:

RED - Nikon Z Mount added to Komodo-X and V-Raptor but no Medium Format camera as of yet.

Nikon - Same as above.

Both predictions could change by Cinegear in June though!

Fujifilm - The Eterna camera continues to be developed and now we have confirmation of larger Medium Format resolutions compared to GFX100 and GFX100 II as well as upgrades to eliminate moire and aliasing instances that can show up. Prediction was close and could develop over time.

Panasonic - The S1R II came close to filling the gap for an 8K Panasonic camera that appeals to everyone like the S1H did but it's a mixed bag based on reviews. There wasn't anything else of note for filmmakers. The Arri acquisition surprise didn't happen but would have been pretty cool, however, there's still time in the year so I'll hold on to that one.

Arri - Arri already announced the Alexa 265 and I unfortunately didn't get time to check it out myself at NAB (assuming they had it on display). My Panasonic sale prediction didn't happen, no 8K+ answers from Arri, we'll see how things go.

Sony - No updates on major camera releases and no advancement to 8K for FX-line, broadcast, camcorders, or action cameras, I was surprised! They did show off advances in their Virtual Production offerings which were really cool and shaved some cost off of our Virtual Production budget for Babs Do Studios. I expect later announcements from Sony as well, a lot of folks expected new 8K offerings but none showed up at this particular show. Hmmm....

Canon - I walked through the booth and saw a very average crowd space. Not a lot going on so didn't stay too long.

DJI - They had a nice crowd moving through, once again I didn't get much time to check them out but their new gimbal looks nice and they did do the price drop on the Ronin 4D 6K model and RAW license that were pretty intriguing.

The Blackmagic Design PYXIS 12K clearly stole the show! The new 65mm lenses from Cooke and Dulens looked pretty great too so there's some modern Medium Format cine lenses to look forward to as well! Overall, I was spending a lot more time at other booths this year than previous years, lots of things I had to consider beyond cameras for Babs Do Studios, and there just weren't that many announcements before or even during the show. At the same time, I feel like this was a big advancement year, I'm just surprised it didn't come from the names we would all expect. Still, there's still time in the year and the economic changes shifting around before and during the show will surely calm down and reveal some surprises before year's end, we'll have to see! Another year, another NAB Show, I hope everyone who attended had a great time!

 

[fgonz031]

Summary of my predictions for 2025:

RED - Nikon Z Mount added to Komodo-X and V-Raptor but no Medium Format camera as of yet.

Nikon - Same as above.

Both predictions could change by Cinegear in June though!

Fujifilm - The Eterna camera continues to be developed and now we have confirmation of larger Medium Format resolutions compared to GFX100 and GFX100 II as well as upgrades to eliminate moire and aliasing instances that can show up. Prediction was close and could develop over time.

Panasonic - The S1R II came close to filling the gap for an 8K Panasonic camera that appeals to everyone like the S1H did but it's a mixed bag based on reviews. There wasn't anything else of note for filmmakers. The Arri acquisition surprise didn't happen but would have been pretty cool, however, there's still time in the year so I'll hold on to that one.

Arri - Arri already announced the Alexa 265 and I unfortunately didn't get time to check it out myself at NAB (assuming they had it on display). My Panasonic sale prediction didn't happen, no 8K+ answers from Arri, we'll see how things go.

Sony - No updates on major camera releases and no advancement to 8K for FX-line, broadcast, camcorders, or action cameras, I was surprised! They did show off advances in their Virtual Production offerings which were really cool and shaved some cost off of our Virtual Production budget for Babs Do Studios. I expect later announcements from Sony as well, a lot of folks expected new 8K offerings but none showed up at this particular show. Hmmm....

Canon - I walked through the booth and saw a very average crowd space. Not a lot going on so didn't stay too long.

DJI - They had a nice crowd moving through, once again I didn't get much time to check them out but their new gimbal looks nice and they did do the price drop on the Ronin 4D 6K model and RAW license that were pretty intriguing.

The Blackmagic Design PYXIS 12K clearly stole the show! The new 65mm lenses from Cooke and Dulens looked pretty great too so there's some modern Medium Format cine lenses to look forward to as well! Overall, I was spending a lot more time at other booths this year than previous years, lots of things I had to consider beyond cameras for Babs Do Studios, and there just weren't that many announcements before or even during the show. At the same time, I feel like this was a big advancement year, I'm just surprised it didn't come from the names we would all expect. Still, there's still time in the year and the economic changes shifting around before and during the show will surely calm down and reveal some surprises before year's end, we'll have to see! Another year, another NAB Show, I hope everyone who attended had a great time!

Hi Zack
Summary of my predictions for 2025:

RED - Nikon Z Mount added to Komodo-X and V-Raptor but no Medium Format camera as of yet.

Nikon - Same as above.

Both predictions could change by Cinegear in June though!

Zack Are there any surprises in June?

 

[Zack Birlew]

Hi Zack
Summary of my predictions for 2025:

RED - Nikon Z Mount added to Komodo-X and V-Raptor but no Medium Format camera as of yet.

Nikon - Same as above.

Both predictions could change by Cinegear in June though!

Zack Are there any surprises in June?

The thing is, sometimes announcements make it to the summer rather than NAB and I'm only predicting that RED/Nikon has to make a move on Medium Format after seeing Blackmagic Design's 17K 65 step up the game and Arri's 265 and Fuji's Eterna making such a splash at NAB and in the headlines as well. For a good while now, RED likes to save things for Cinegear rather than NAB so if there were a 65mm entry it would probably be around then or slightly after in the summer. Otherwise it would be anybody's guess and quite a thing for them to fall behind a little on such a development. Still, whenever their Medium Format camera comes, it will surely be quite the camera!