NAB 2018: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Zeb B]

I don't see Blackmagic moving to higher resolution any time soon. 4K is more than enough resolution for 99% of productions, and if Blackmagic ever builds a larger-format sensor, they will probably just use larger photosites like Arri does. My guess is Blackmagic's next camera will be the same 4.6k sensor but with 4K 120fps and 1080p 240fps enabled. Probably they will use some of the materials of the Pocket camera to shave off some weight too.

Shot on a Ursa 2 years ago in 1080P. Doesn't suck

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

I don't see Blackmagic moving to higher resolution any time soon. 4K is more than enough resolution for 99% of productions, and if Blackmagic ever builds a larger-format sensor, they will probably just use larger photosites like Arri does. My guess is Blackmagic's next camera will be the same 4.6k sensor but with 4K 120fps and 1080p 240fps enabled. Probably they will use some of the materials of the Pocket camera to shave off some weight too.

While I agree that 4K is enough for many if not most productions, I do think that BM will move to higher resolutions as soon as they can. They are hungry and are clearly seeking world domination.

They already have a 8K Decklink card and they were very fast at upgrading their broadcast products from HD to UHD. The new Pocket 4K also has a dedicated button for taking still photos. They don't use OLPFs which some other still camera manufacturers have been doing for some time, in order to have sharper images. Higher resolution sensors will be important if they want to compete in the still world. And how would they not want to ? They have been shooting RAW since Day 1 and they have Davinci Resolve in which their next addition could be a Photoshop-like module.

Kinefinity which is a brand that should be taken seriously has already moved beyond 4K. Foxconn will start making 8K cameras sooner than many expect. BM is the camera industry's new kid on the block and I think that the next few years will be very exciting...

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

Shot on a Ursa 2 years ago in 1080P. Doesn't suck

I think it looks very good. Skin tones, colors and DR are very nice.

What's also interesting is that the URSA had the old 12 stops 4K sensor. We can safely assume the Pocket 4K with its new 13 stops sensor and the new Color Science 4.0, will produce an image at least as good as this fashion short movie.

 

[Savannah Miller]

If Blackmagic wants to achieve "world domination" then 4K is the way to do it. Think about how many TV shows are shot on the Arri Alexa because it does 1080p prores so well? Consumers don't need 8K yet and a lot of people have trouble shooting and editing 4K, so I doubt they really need more than that. Very few American TV dramas shoot on RED and for good reason. Prores on the Alexa is perfect for their needs.

Blackmagic 4.6K is dangerously close to ALEVIII performance with all the convenience features of the Alexa Mini and then some. That shows what happens when you have an 6 or 7 year newer sensor design. If they iterate just one more time, they might even surpass the performance of the ALEVIII sensor which might make more DP's consider it for their next Principle camera.

Maybe it's just me, but compared to even compared to top-of-the-line camera companies like RED, Blackmagic just makes a better TV camera. With all of the FOX shows that John Brawley is shooting on Ursa Mini/Pro and how much the producers tend to enjoy the images from the Blackmagic cameras, I wouldn't be surprised if they start getting considered for more shows. If Blackmagic would just make 1 more iteration of their dual-gain fairchild sensor and possibly surpass the performance coming from ALEVIII sensor they might corner a pretty large market of production.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

If they iterate just one more time, they might even surpass the performance of the ALEVIII sensor which might make more DP's consider it for their next Principle camera.

If one disregards the speculation...what is the purpose of wishing more DoPs choosing this and this camera ? If one doesn't work for a camera company, that is.

Red comes close to Arri in some image performance aspects and in some surpasses it.
Did DoPs used to Alexa look and feel switch to Red because of that ?

 

[Savannah Miller]

If one disregards the speculation...what is the purpose of wishing more DoPs choosing this and this camera ? If one doesn't work for a camera company, that is.

Red comes close to Arri in some image performance aspects and in some surpasses it.
Did DoPs used to Alexa look and feel switch to Red because of that ?

No. Because you need compelling reasons for people to switch. TV shows use the Alexa not only for the images but because HD Prores 4:4:4 is a preferred workflow. If there was another camera that could do the same thing and provide a superior image, then why would people not consider it? Some of the old shows that JB was shooting still continue to use ursa mini. If they didn't like the camera surely they would switch back to something else? I just like the idea of a cheap camera because it opens up more creative opportunities.

Blackmagic is more targeted directly at the Alexa. It uses exactly the same dual-gain sensor technology, and their image pipline from capture to raw encoding, is almost identical to how the Alexa works. It's not a camera meant to deliver market-crushing specs, it's just one that gives you a nice looking image without 3 different OLPF's, 10 different color gamuts and color spaces, and other things that a lot of DP's could care less about. If you factor in price, ergonomics, size, weight, etc. there are plenty of compelling reasons to start considering Blackmagic as it gives you pretty much what you're used to with a few benefits. If they can iterate 1 more time with the dual-gain tech they might get closer and then those other reasons might make more of a difference.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

No. Because you need compelling reasons for people to switch. TV shows use the Alexa not only for the images but because HD Prores 4:4:4 is a preferred workflow.

That would be a gross oversimplification.

If there was another camera that could do the same thing and provide a superior image, then why would people not consider it?

There already is another serious production workhorse camera with excellent imagery and it's already widely used for what it is designed for.

https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/digital-cinema-cameras/pmw-f55

Blackmagic is more targeted directly at the Alexa.

That would be either an unrealistic target or an assessment of one.

It uses exactly the same dual-gain sensor technology, and their image pipline from capture to raw encoding, is almost identical to how the Alexa works.

You have deep insight into Arri and BM sensor and processing tech ?

If you factor in price, ergonomics, size, weight, etc. there are plenty of compelling reasons to start considering Blackmagic as it gives you pretty much what you're used to with a few benefits.

Surely, a serious image and in case of Ursa Minor 4.6K camera with a bunch of benefits with excellent results for the pricing segment. And a great achievement of the team behind it.

And many of those who have bunch of other factors and don't factor in the price as priority for covering the main device of the project capturing the whole investment while being able to fit in the typical higher segment production workflow...they get Alexas. For example.

 

[Misha Engel]

You have deep insight into Arri and BM sensor and processing tech ?

It's not far of and you can find it yourself on the internet (google, etc..).

Big differences are also there.
Arri(Cypress) 2x14 bit vs. 2x11bit UMP(fairchild).
And even more important, ARRI doesn't clip in the highlights(like all others do, incl. UMP).

 

[Savannah Miller]

The 2x14 bit might be what gives the Alexa better color latitude when under/over exposing the images, but in normal usage I see not much difference. But if you look at the image processing charts of the Alexa and how the images are captured, it's basically the same thing with the way Blackmagic works.

Ursa Mini has a larger amount of shadow dynamic range which gives it a slightly harsher highlight rolloff. You could probably shoot at 1600 ISO during the day but the saturation and colors fall apart a little more. I would say for night shots that are perfectly exposed, the UMP looks better than the Alexa. So if your show takes place largely at night, it might be an interesting choice.

Here's some examples of shadow-distributed scenes shot on ursa mini.

The reason I bring up Alexa is I don't off the top of my head know any American network TV shows shooting on SONY. I would guess over 90% are shot on the Alexa and there are very few shooting anything other than 1080p prores 4:4:4. For Netflix it seems to be a little more split as a lot of people seem to be using Panasonic/Canon/Sony in order to avoid shooting RED cameras. Now that Alexa LF is out we might see a switch back to the Alexa again.

 

[jordan levy]

The 2x14 bit might be what gives the Alexa better color latitude when under/over exposing the images, but in normal usage I see not much difference. But if you look at the image processing charts of the Alexa and how the images are captured, it's basically the same thing with the way Blackmagic works.

Ursa Mini has a larger amount of shadow dynamic range which gives it a slightly harsher highlight rolloff. You could probably shoot at 1600 ISO during the day but the saturation and colors fall apart a little more. I would say for night shots that are perfectly exposed, the UMP looks better than the Alexa. So if your show takes place largely at night, it might be an interesting choice.

Here's some examples of shadow-distributed scenes shot on ursa mini.

The reason I bring up Alexa is I don't off the top of my head know any American network TV shows shooting on SONY. I would guess over 90% are shot on the Alexa and there are very few shooting anything other than 1080p prores 4:4:4. For Netflix it seems to be a little more split as a lot of people seem to be using Panasonic/Canon/Sony in order to avoid shooting RED cameras. Now that Alexa LF is out we might see a switch back to the Alexa again.

a lot of Viacom shows are shot on the sony F55 as well as almost all the netflix live show type specials, stand up and talk show types. i know because the camera has been being forced on me for years, and again for a show im shooting in two weeks. Though they asked if i could shoot it on the new Alexa LF, i was like yeah! but, um, there arent that many out yet and i need 5 cameras and it will double the budget
also i would definitely say almost every other network show is alexa.

 

[Alex.Mitchell]

If one disregards the speculation...what is the purpose of wishing more DoPs choosing this and this camera ? If one doesn't work for a camera company, that is.

I was thinking the same thing!

 

[Matt Bai]

Great looking camera. Body-wise.

Soon Hydrogen is going to bitch slap this back to the middle ages however.

 

[Matt Bai]

Gorgeous mate.

Shot on a Ursa 2 years ago in 1080P. Doesn't suck

 

[jordan levy]

Great looking camera. Body-wise.

Soon Hydrogen is going to bitch slap this back to the middle ages however.

except they do two completely different things???

 

[Savannah Miller]

a lot of Viacom shows are shot on the sony F55 as well as almost all the netflix live show type specials, stand up and talk show types. i know because the camera has been being forced on me for years, and again for a show im shooting in two weeks. Though they asked if i could shoot it on the new Alexa LF, i was like yeah! but, um, there arent that many out yet and i need 5 cameras and it will double the budget
also i would definitely say almost every other network show is alexa.

That's the perfect example of where the Ursa Mini excels. It's more of a camera aimed at people who like the alexa but cheap enough that you can have tons of them. If for whatever creative reason you need 10 cameras, you can do that and it costs virtually nothing compared to other cameras.

Also because they're not locked down to a specific sensor architecture or even necessarily 100% proprietary sensors, there's more flexibility in sensor size/resolution compared to Alexa. The 4.6k sensor was a completely new custom design but done in a very cost-effective way.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

That magenta tint in the corners seems like a major design (hardware) flaw. How did they fix it? Firmware? That would mean either a sensitivity hit or a noise hit? Have they ever explained the fix?

 

[Savannah Miller]

That magenta tint in the corners seems like a major design (hardware) flaw. How did they fix it? Firmware? That would mean either a sensitivity hit or a noise hit? Have they ever explained the fix?

I believe they fixed with a combo of hardware and software. I have no proof of this but the Pro version doesn't seem to have that issue at all and it's minimal on the 4.6k now. I think they quietly figured out what it was and didn't tell anyone but their newer cameras don't have it. Instead of making everyone angry demanding for an RMA they just spent most of their effort on a firmware fix.

Or maybe it's still there on both cameras and it's entirely a firmware situation for both. But sensitivity and noise is more/less the same. Noise actually decreased slightly because they also implemented black shading into the cameras around the same time.

 

[C. Burkhart]

There is a lot of nonsense going on here. I work with footage from a ton of different cameras every day as a colorist.
I don't care what any proponent from/for Blackmagic says. The footage from the UMP is not even close to the Alexa in terms of actual dynamic range. Sure if you are shooting in the sweet spot you can make almost any camera today with a decent log algorithm or RAW aspect look like Alexa footage. That does not make them the same. However, the fact that these cameras are consistently tossed about as necessarily being more compatible/comparable to the Alexa is nothing more than another form of MARKETING in my opinion, right here and on other boards. This is CRAP. And I am fed up with it.

The Alexa has at least 2-2.5 stops more latitude in the highlights than the Ursa Mini. They are not even close.
You want to shoot with the URSA as a B-Cam? Great. Go for it. I am the guy who can match them up, and I do. But don't tell me they are the same !
However, there are plenty of people who use Varicam, RED or even Sony cams doing exactly the same thing. Using an Alexa as a standard to match to is not new, not limited to Blackmagic users and not any more easy with the latter's camera than the others. They have no special qualities, which make them particularly more a B-Cam than the other competitors, except price point. This includes notions of "color palette". Trust me, every camera has a color palette, but when working near the center of the color spectrum as most productions do, they all pretty much can be matched up without any special workarounds. It's only when going to the edges of the spectrum that each begins to have it's own special requirements.

Don't get me wrong. The Ursa is very good value for the money. It is more than enough for a lot of people's work. Generally if one is doing decent lighting control, they dont need 15 stops of range. It appears to that BM is ironing things out after a myriad of artifacting and issues. (which I have encountered quite regularly in the past). However, this following video confirms my experience. Watch what starts to happen in terms of clipping on the face in terms of the highlights after about 3 stops compared to the the Alexa which goes to 5-6 stops. Even at 5 stops over the Alexa can still be pulled back to looking virtually the same as normal exposure. That is something I don't find with most other cams. There is a real distortion in color terms with most other cams when overexposed beyond a much lower threshold than the Alexa. It's incredible and it's why people choose the Alexa over everything else.

These guys like the URSA, but they assess the realities of it in what I consider to be a very reasonable and honest way. I really respect that. Look at around the 6 minute mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk7ZFx7j8f8

Oh and by the way the video addresses the reliability issues of previous BM cameras in the same manner as my experience working with DP's. This is not just "second hand" talk. It is real experiences from people I have worked with in the field, and I have seen the footage issues myself. As I said, the response here and elsewhere is generally favorable given the price point. It's great that BM is doing things for filmmakers on a budget that would have been unimaginable only a few years ago. There are always issues with ALL cameras and things do appear to be improving with BM, but please stop with the "baby alexa" marketing speak. It is an attempt to gain credibility by using another top manufacturer's reputation. But there is a real, legitimate and concrete set of reasons why that manufacturer is at the top.

John Brawley's arguments about the form factor and using different cameras for different needs, is really the best reason for buying a BM camera. Not because of it's supposed compatibility with the current leader in our niche world or trying to make it into a camera which it is not.

Which ultimately confirms what I have always believed. Give a good DP, even a mediocre camera (not saying BM is medicore, just saying) and he is probably going to do a great job if allowed to light things well and control the workflow from end to end. Give a mediocre DP a GREAT camera and it's still going to look like crap, if he/she doesn't know what to do with the lighting and hasn't mastered the entire production process. That's my experience, anyway.

 

[John Brawley]

This is the original shipping firmware, with an early camera but here are some camera original files from Arri RAW and Ursa Mini 4.6K (not pro) RAW.

https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2016/03/23/ursa-mini-4-6-and-alexa-side-by-side/

By the way, they quote me in that video as saying something I've never said.

They don't explain their workflow (in detail) and theres a few factual, or at best misleading errors (like when he says ProRes recorded externally from an A7S will be somehow close, ignoring the fact i think that they only output 8Bit).

JB

 

[Aaron Lochert]

This is the original shipping firmware, with an early camera but here are some camera original files from Arri RAW and Ursa Mini 4.6K (not pro) RAW.

https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2016/03/23/ursa-mini-4-6-and-alexa-side-by-side/

By the way, they quote me in that video as saying something I've never said.

They don't explain their workflow (in detail) and theres a few factual, or at best misleading errors (like when he says ProRes recorded externally from an A7S will be somehow close, ignoring the fact i think that they only output 8Bit).

JB

I'm getting a "Sorry, these files are no longer available." on the Blackmagic footage link.