Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB 2015 - Lies, damn lies and rampant speculation

Yes... better volts would be great. Also a Red menu simulator app would be brilliant. No not Donna, that is not quite good enough. I'm not like the rest... my needs are simple. A good Red menu simulator app so trainees can be sent home and return as experts. I'm sure someone at Red could knock that up in minutes..... :laugh:
 
Just keep going in the direction that you're going with the Skin OLPF and Dragon Colour.

I realise that I am in a tiny minority but I'd love uncompressed RAW.

I'd also like a mode that was exactly, and I mean exactly, super 35mm it's around 5.5K as far as I can see.

Cooler running would be useful.

A good app simulator would be a good thing.
 
Hi Geoff

5k is about as close as anyone else is... And if I remember correctly coming out of TK my framing off the neg was always a choice anyway?

Skin tone is great but I'm looking for a skin tone 2 (with a tad better performacne in the shadows) which I beleive is coming.

Re uncompressed... I don't believe 6k uncompressed is viable in any mainstream productions any time soon. However I do believe we would benifit massively from much faster media from Red. Very detailed scenes with lots of High frequencey detail are very tricky overcranked at the min...

If Red delivers at NAB

new OLPF with skin tone quality with a extra stop in shadow

Faster (probably more expensive) media

Fix a couple of minor niggles with RRX and Dragon playback

And for gravy if. there was a minor (paid or otherwise) upgrade for Dragon to get a modest bump in frame rates

.... I would be over the moon!!

Ps thanks for the test...
 
Michael Lindsay said:
Hi Geoff

5k is about as close as anyone else is... And if I remember correctly coming out of TK my framing off the neg was always a choice anyway?

Skin tone is great but I'm looking for a skin tone 2 (with a tad better performacne in the shadows) which I beleive is coming.

Re uncompressed... I don't believe 6k uncompressed is viable in any mainstream productions any time soon. However I do believe we would benifit massively from much faster media from Red. Very detailed scenes with lots of High frequencey detail are very tricky overcranked at the min...

Ps thanks for the test...
Click to expand...


You're right, 5K is very close, I'd just like it to be absolutely spot on, I always liked to line TK up to TAF and then leave it alone, that applies to the basic grade as well.
I have this strange idea that I want people to see what I shot and not something else!
this is why I'm so into ACES as it allows me to get "vanilla" rushes instead of rushes that show someone else's interpretation of my work.

Better shadows with Skintone would be great.

Why is everyone so scared of data? I keep hearing the same arguments we had in the late 90's about scanning 35mm at 2K 10 bit, nobody blinks at that now and hasn't for quite a while.
If we want to progress we have to push into areas where it may cause a little discomfort for a while.
 
geoffboyle said:
You're right, 5K is very close, I'd just like it to be absolutely spot on, I always liked to line TK up to TAF and then leave it alone, that applies to the basic grade as well.
I have this strange idea that I want people to see what I shot and not something else!
Click to expand...

5KHD is very close to S35 and translates well to 1080p which most of us are working for. I think the mathematical translation factor plays a major role in terms of quality at the back end. For uncompressed and "real" S35mm footage Red would have to build a new sensor. But even then the question remains: what is the desired delivery format, 1080p, UHD, 4K...?


geoffboyle said:
Better shadows with Skintone would be great.
Click to expand...

Yes. And I'm pretty sure that Red is working on this. It may come out even a little less aggressive regarding the low pass filter. Many knowledgable people find Red footage a tad too soft.


geoffboyle said:
Why is everyone so scared of data? I keep hearing the same arguments we had in the late 90's about scanning 35mm at 2K 10 bit, nobody blinks at that now and hasn't for quite a while.
If we want to progress we have to push into areas where it may cause a little discomfort for a while.
Click to expand...

You've got already 2:1 which produces tons of data and is at least visually/mathematically/whatever lossless. Ok. We want choices. You want uncompressed? Why not. I think a major obstacle could be a bottleneck around the SSD system. Probably faster cards won't cut the mustard.

I join Michael, thanks for the test!



Hans
 
Lee Saxon said:
They're still doing Dragon upgrades and we're worried about what's after Dragon?

I guess we have a lot of Sony A7 shooters here (the A7 was replaced when less than a year old).
Click to expand...

NAB 2013 was when upgrades began, which makes the sensor 2 years + old. Most have only had it for a little while, but that doesn't mean there isn't a new sensor ready to go. It would be silly if RED were not already onto the next sensor. That's part of the camera wars, trying to stay one step ahead. Sony's next move should be a pretty big one considering they have the best lowlight performing sensor on the market. If they can translate that to a cinema body with better rolling shutter performance, look out. It's not particularly for me, but it would be widely popular for a number of reasons.
 
NOSA OBAYIUWANA said:
So Matt do you rate the F55 higher than the Alexa XT... just wondering what your thoughts are.
Click to expand...

Depends what I'm basing the rating on. If I am required to finish in 4K (Which Netflix and Amazon now require for their original series) then the F55 is the choice. The F55 has blown up in the TV world and quite a few are shot on the F55. It doesn't have quite the DR of the Alexa but just barely short. It has more of a video look to it and is incredibly sharp, but also cleaner on the low end. So it depends what you are shooting and what you need. I personally like the look of the Alexa over the F55, but the price difference is also quite staggering when you look at it from that aspect. It would depend on the job and the finish to sway what choice to make. I'd personally probably shoot Dragon ;) but for this exercise that's how I'd make my decision.
 
Really interesting. I have shot with the Dragon, the F55 and the Alexa and in all honestly I can't say which one I prefer. I love the skin tones on the Alexa but prefer the overall colour on the Dragon & F55. Also (and I know some will shoot me for this) if I was going into a demanding three - four week shoot my first choice would be the Alexa / F55. On the other hand the Dragon has not let me down yet. But I worry sometimes.
 
Another question - what is the colour depth on the Dragon... I have always assumed it is 16bit but I have heard some rumours that Red has some coding that makes it "kind of" 16bit. The F55 guys at Sony say their camera is 16bit period with no fancy coding going on. We have a Dragon and F5 ... and we need another camera .... trying to make up my mind if we should go Dragon, Alexa or F55 again.
 
NOSA OBAYIUWANA said:
Really interesting. I have shot with the Dragon, the F55 and the Alexa and in all honestly I can't say which one I prefer. I love the skin tones on the Alexa but prefer the overall colour on the Dragon & F55. Also (and I know some will shoot me for this) if I was going into a demanding three - four week shoot my first choice would be the Alexa / F55. On the other hand the Dragon has not let me down yet. But I worry sometimes.
Click to expand...

That's totally fair and sad if people crucify you here for that. I think choosing a camera now is getting harder and harder because they are all so similar. You pretty much just need to pick a system and learn the ins and outs and how to work with it's weaknesses to get the most out of it. The DR race is pretty even, mainly color is the difference between the options now. As for reliability, I'm comforted by the fact that House of Cards is a fast paced hectic shoot schedule and they are able to work with RED's. Same for the larger budget features down to the indie films. So I think the RED gets a bad rep for reliability when it's actually much better than things used to be.
 
NOSA OBAYIUWANA said:
Another question - what is the colour depth on the Dragon... I have always assumed it is 16bit but I have heard some rumours that Red has some coding that makes it "kind of" 16bit. The F55 guys at Sony say their camera is 16bit period with no fancy coding going on. We have a Dragon and F5 ... and we need another camera .... trying to make up my mind if we should go Dragon, Alexa or F55 again.
Click to expand...

16bit, but I believe the compression ratios play a role in this number. I could be wrong though.
 
Decisions...decisions. Thanks Matt. I agree.... the dragon has not let me down yet. It is just that when so many people keep going on about it you question your choice when buying or shooting
 
NOSA OBAYIUWANA said:
Decisions...decisions. Thanks Matt. I agree.... the dragon has not let me down yet. It is just that when so many people keep going on about it you question your choice when buying or shooting
Click to expand...

I hear you. For me, the best bang for your buck is a Dragon. Especially since you can upgrade the sensor when the new one arrives. I think that is the strong point. I always owned Sony cams and was buying a new model every year, seriously. Having to sell my previous model for about half price. Not a pleasant experience. At least now the Sony AXS-R5 RAW module can work with future models if they keep the same body style and connections.

As for shooting, it's always a bit of a struggle. Choosing a camera is getting more and more difficult because they are so similar. My experience is budget usually plays a larger role so I have to make a decision based on that. Here in LA, Dragons are everywhere and the package prices are incredibly low. I've seen them going for $650/day with lenses, tripod, accessories, and a Ronin. So I'm lucky in a sense to have access to this high end gear for such a small amount. The Sony and Alexa still command premium prices here.
 
Matt Ryan said:
I always owned Sony cams and was buying a new model every year, seriously.
Click to expand...

I aways owned an Arri, never had to buy a new model every year, on the contrary had 15 years of great shooting with the same camera before I jumped on the Red waggon. Red turned out to be a equally reliable partner in the new era of digital filmmaking with generous upgrading paths that were second to none.

The RedOne was an interesting step in in a new technology, and often a pain. The Epic MX was much better in many ways and brought back many of the virtues of my old Arri I missed so much. The Dragon now is an excellent camera that serves me well and hansn't let me down yet. I don't have a reason to think about going back to Arri: the upgrade to the Epic was 10k, the upgrade to the Dragon 6k. 16k in 7 years of ownership to keep the camera up to date ist not much today.

In recent times Dragon proves to be a reliable and successful tool in the industry. And there is still room of improvement, just think about the upcoming OLPF choices.

---

I broke an Arri III, an Arri SR3 and an Arri 435, any camera can brick on you.

Hans
 
I'd like a wireless everything module. Video, camera control, time code, etc, with power pass through.
 
The whole reliability thing... after build 16 on my RED One, I never, ever had issues. Ever, with it. My first Scarlet had problems, but they reared their head early, in testing, and my RED Dragon has been 100% reliable, even in cold New York weather and hot LA and Texas locales. Meanwhile, my Canon C100 went nuts during a shoot and changed blue to green. No idea why, even now. And once, the Canon overheated and stopped working entirely. Back in the day, my Canon 7D would randomly stop working and demand a reboot. My HVX200 occasionally did, too. You never know, I guess. My own experience has been RED's been just as reliable as anything else. Like Hans said, any camera can brick on you.

What I'd like... I am a simple guy right now, I guess. I just want cheaper SSDs. I don't need anything else for the moment, Dragon is absolutely stunning if you treat it right, and certainly competes with the best images available.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top