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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Mysterium-X dynamic range...

The iso crank now goes to 6400!

And yes, it was noisy at that. But no sign of the cross-hatch fixed pattern. Plus we were looking at the regular old live 720p video tap on an NEC LCD. We all know with a full debayer we will get cleaner images.

Using the one-to-one zoom, looking at the blacks of the petrol pump in the set, the noise at iso 2000 looked like it could be a completely usable starting point.

And eliminating REC709 and the punchy gamma of redspace and leaving simply Redcolor makes life a lot easier. The gamma curve on that means the highlights no longer blow away compared to raw when you toggle between the two.

All-in-all another great day for Red and for us! Thanks guys. Hope you got some well-earned rest last night!

James Milner-Smyth
 
Thanks James. Was great to have the opportunity to explain this all to you (and many others yesterday) in person.

Graeme
 
Justin Anderson said:
All digital sensors capture linearly. I'm 99% sure, in that raw acquisition form, that 1 bit is 1 stop.

I believe a 12-bit AD converter cannot pull beyond 12 stops of information out of the linear sensor.
Click to expand...

Bits do not have to equal stops. A stop is an abstract unit of measure used to assign value to a quantifiable range. A stop measures light transmission similar to how an inch or centimeter measure length.

A 12bit value can represent an integer range from 0 to 4095. Or 4096 integer steps between two points. I doesn't matter if the sensor can register 2 stops of DR, 8 stops or 20 stops -- a 12bit value will represent 4096 total steps between the lowest and highest value recorded.

By having a larger range or more stops applied to this 12bit value, you only lose precision between the end-points of your range. In a linear system, the precision loss is uniform across the range. In a logarithmic system, you have a curve and can weight the curve to retain precision in one area of the range more so than another.

Another way to look at a 12bit system, if it accounts for 12 stops of dynamic range, then you have 4096 values ranging from 0 on up to 12 stops in 0.0029 stop increments (341.33 values between full stops). If this same system were to account for a range of 16 stops, then you would still have the same 4096 values, but this time each value would correspond to 0.0039 stop increments or 256 values between full stops. So greater range, but less precision.
 
This is great- I can't wait to see the results- more DR is what I've been craving for - keep up the great work. :)
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Bits do not have to equal stops. A stop is an abstract unit of measure used to assign value to a quantifiable range. A stop measures light transmission similar to how an inch or centimeter measure length.

A 12bit value can represent an integer range from 0 to 4095. Or 4096 integer steps between two points. I doesn't matter if the sensor can register 2 stops of DR, 8 stops or 20 stops -- a 12bit value will represent 4096 total steps between the lowest and highest value recorded.

By having a larger range or more stops applied to this 12bit value, you only lose precision between the end-points of your range. In a linear system, the precision loss is uniform across the range. In a logarithmic system, you have a curve and can weight the curve to retain precision in one area of the range more so than another.

Another way to look at a 12bit system, if it accounts for 12 stops of dynamic range, then you have 4096 values ranging from 0 on up to 12 stops in 0.0029 stop increments (341.33 values between full stops). If this same system were to account for a range of 16 stops, then you would still have the same 4096 values, but this time each value would correspond to 0.0039 stop increments or 256 values between full stops. So greater range, but less precision.
Click to expand...
Jeff, you have a way of making the muddy waters clear. This is a great explanation.
 
After seeing the demonstration of the the new Mysterium X sensor last night, I believe it is as much a quantum leap as the Red One was two years ago.

-Thor
 
When oooh when will we see a side-by-side comparison between the M and the M-X? By the response of the people who seen it in action, its quite a big leap in sensor technology but I want to know by how much :)
 
M and M-X side by side

M and M-X side by side

Peter Karlsson said:
When oooh when will we see a side-by-side comparison between the M and the M-X? By the response of the people who seen it in action, its quite a big leap in sensor technology but I want to know by how much :)
Click to expand...

Peter,

When we shot the M-X footage last week with an ASC DP, we also did a couple of side-by-side shots with the R1 and M-X ... when we put the side-by-side scenes up on the Barco and graded them, it was quite obvious to all in the room (and we had 4 very experienced ASC DPs look at the footage) that the M-X sensor is a quantum leap up from the M sensor in terms of Dynamic Range, noise level and color rendering .... part of that is due to the physics of the sensor and the new DSP and part of it is due to the magic of Graeme's new FLUT color science (Graeme is Jim's secret weapon in the war against the old school camera manufacturers).

We'll be showing the R1 and M-X comparisons next Saturday at our ASC Follow Up event where we'll be digging deeper into the characteristics of the new M-X sensor, color science and grading the new .r3d RAW files.

If you have a Red One and can afford the upgrade to the M-X sensor I would highly recommend taking that course of action .... you will not be disappointed.

Neil
 
Seems that the wait is well worth it.

13+ stops? :hurray:

Then Monstro will probably be superior to film.

I like.
:001_cool:
 
I echo the sentiments here expressed. Seeing un graded raw M-X footage is believing. A huge leap forward. And a very elegant leap forward with Red Cine X to go with it. The software integration is huge as well, walking hand in hand.

Red is definitely rocketing on many fronts. Congratulations and thanks to Jim & the whole crew. Their creativity will be spurning on greater creativity on the story-telling visual expressive front in many domains where it would been next to impossible before they came along.
 
Neil, are there any images you might post? I would love to see what happens when you start pushing up the blacks, or putting a contrast curve on a overbright sky etc.

I have some money, but not enough to both go to the Red day to see it in action and upgrade.... Seems like you all having a blast over there! Don't want to miss out on all the fun.
 
R1 and M-X images ..

R1 and M-X images ..

Peter Karlsson said:
Neil, are there any images you might post? I would love to see what happens when you start pushing up the blacks, or putting a contrast curve on a overbright sky etc.

I have some money, but not enough to both go to the Red day to see it in action and upgrade.... Seems like you all having a blast over there! Don't want to miss out on all the fun.
Click to expand...

Peter,

Let me check with Jim on what we can share with you ... we're in 'engineering build' mode at the moment and we only want to go public on images that everyone will understand, appreciate and comment on in the right context ... ASC DPs understand the technical underpinnings of what Jim and Graeme are striving for .... sometimes Redheads get it wrong .... 5k digital filmmaking is a tough game - we're trying to simplify things but its still hard.

Bear with us .... these are still early days for the Epic revolution.

Neil
 
"Graeme is Jim's secret weapon in the war against the old school camera manufacturers)."

"Their creativity will be spurning on greater creativity on the story-telling visual expressive front in many domains where it would been next to impossible before they came along."


Right on Neil and Rod.
 
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