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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

My (somewhat sad) Scarlet-W Experience

Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
What does the power thing mean exactly? I mean isn't DC power from 4s li-ion cells pretty simple as long it can handle the draw and the voltage drop isn't too high. Perhaps you mean certain cells which may suppose the required current at higher voltages but cannot as the voltage lowers? The camera doesn't know anything about a 3rd party battery besides the voltage it provides, does it?
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I can tell you from experience that crappy batteries and crappy third party AKS can cause problems.

We use Blueshape Batteries and Scatterboxes as this ensures we get consistsent, regulated power to our cams.

Again, that engineer we spoke to was really helpful in explaining how often low quality batteries and distro boxes can spike, and how RED cams in particular (more than most brands) could be susceptible to this and shut themselves down (as a safety measure he guessed).

So good power distro is something to be aware of.
 
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Nick Morrison said:
I can tell you from experience that crappy batteries and crappy third party AKS can cause problems.

We use Blueshape Batteries and Scatterboxes as this ensures we get consistsent, regulated power to our cams.

Again, that engineer we spoke to was really helpful in explaining how often low quality batteries and distro boxes can spike, and how RED cams in particular (more than most brands) could be susceptible to this and shut themselves down (as a safety measure he guessed).

So good power distro is something to be aware of.
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That makes a lot of sense actually and certainly would help explain the occasional set of issues i see popping up on here. Especially the randomness part of things shutting down. In fact this makes so much sense that if there's quantifiable proof of this then Red should really make a support issue about this.

I've not (touch wood) had any issues but i'm using well known batteries.

For those that have had issues what power are you running, how old are the batteries and so on...

cheers
Paul
 
paulcurtis said:
That makes a lot of sense actually and certainly would help explain the occasional set of issues i see popping up on here. Especially the randomness part of things shutting down. In fact this makes so much sense that if there's quantifiable proof of this then Red should really make a support issue about this.

I've not (touch wood) had any issues but i'm using well known batteries.

For those that have had issues what power are you running, how old are the batteries and so on...

cheers
Paul
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Yeah, I mean in the end RED cams are very high end pieces of gear, and no surprise...run much better when paired with high end AKS.

I understand this is a challenge for the lower part of the market (especially as content budgets fall), but at least for my team, being aware of high end power solutions is becoming as important as getting high quality sound on set. It's just not something worth trying to save on.
 
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Personally, I've seen issues with Reds over the years, as a AC and DoP, but never had issues of my own...

Do any of the people that are having issues rent their Cameras out?
 
Nick Morrison said:
Yeah, I mean in the end RED cams are very high end pieces of gear, and no surprise...run much better when paired with high end AKS.

I understand this is a challenge for the lower part of the market (especially as content budgets fall), but at least for my team, being aware of high end power solutions is becoming as important ensuring we get high quality sound on set. It's just not something worth trying to save on.
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Which blueshape batteries are you using?
 
Had my scarlet 2+ years with 0 issues. Hypercore for Red batteries only.
Buddy has a scarlet also and he uses cheap $100 for 190wh chinese batteries, has had to send his in for 2x full board and sensor replacements.
 
Boy, how unfortunate. Sorry you've had so many issues. My Epic-W is the first Red I've had personally but known many operators and owners, as well as AC'd on lots of Red rigs dating back to the first firmware R1. I have never run into this sort of issue before. Most (if not all) of the rigs were using approved components or pretty heavily tested ones. A buddy of mine had an Epic Dragon that lasted him a couple thousand hours with no major issues. I've had my fair share of annoyances but those eventually get figured out with firmware updates (or WC updating their battery plates). I try to stay above board on products not made by Red and usually hold off on newer items (like my EVF is the OLED Bomb and my monitor is the old 5" touch). I've had absolutely zero issues with those two...never screen tearing or anything of the like. I've got 500+hrs on my body and nothing that has stopped a shoot.

Now all these things only help lessen the chance of a problem, but it's still there. Hopefully you can get things worked out. I will say I get my body powered up at least once every two weeks when it's not working (usually just a maintenance day between Alexa jobs). Best of luck.

EDIT: Adding that I only use Switronix/CoreSWX high-draw bricks. Occasionally rentals hand out IDX or AB-Cine (vlock) and they work great. I've avoided or straight up refused to put batteries on that I wasn't sure about.
 
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Josh Wilkinson said:
Had my scarlet 2+ years with 0 issues. Hypercore for Red batteries only.
Buddy has a scarlet also and he uses cheap $100 for 190wh chinese batteries, has had to send his in for 2x full board and sensor replacements.
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this might be getting to the bottom of things actually, especially with power issues.
i too only used original red bricks and Hypercore for Red, and never an issue.
 
Makes me scared to use my Dynacore. Any bad experiences with Dynacore batteries? They're chinese :(
 
What Nick Says I have seen also.

I got blue shape batteries, no issues.

Then I used pretty much every brand of battery as when I travel to shoots I often just bring a few, like three blushape granites or even a few of the new red small Vlocks.

The granites works fine even with quite a bit of accessories. Other batteries when using both Dtaps and the Dtap on camera normally give the camera all kinds of hickups. I seen menus disappear, camera shutting of in middle of takes, then when restarting on the same battery it continues to run. Also seen a lot off oddities in playback mode. Like shooting all fine, going to playback and camera can simply not do it. etc, etc.

I find the Epic was better on this front it complained on bad / low current etc. Weapon on the other hand seams to just freak on shitty power.

So my advice, use nothing but the red power modules and make sure to have good batteries. And if you use a lot of accessories. I would sugest running with two batteries and let one battery only power the camera and the second battery everything else.

Possibly I´m a bit paranoid but I seen people testing camera on prep day, all works fine, then on first shooting day camera simply start to act up like mad. and when they remove the accessories from the power source things goes back to normal. Then when asking they explain they tested camera, then turned it off and tested all the FIZ and other gear.

So if your camera starts to sketch out, try remove accessories out of the equation, then test new battery and if that does not work, test new power module or the AC adapter. usually then you can figure out whats causing the error.

On epic I had a rental client that manage to bend the connectors of my red Vlock adapter when it was unmounted. Then they ruined the +1 module trying to mount it... the + 1 module ruined my pro I/O module. and then also my XL battery module and my Quad Volt module... Then they rented a Vlock plate and AC connector and got going with their shoot... That kind of made me pull out of providing for small rental clients. Was simply not worth the hassle. Cost a fortune to get it all fixed even though red was quite nice to me.
 
Things like these make me check the news for when the A7S 3 comes out. Hassle free, reliable, lightweight and phenomenal in low light. I love my Epic-X (Old school) but man, a camera going down in front of a big client a few times, that's terrible.
 
Robert Bahou said:
Things like these make me check the news for when the A7S 3 comes out. Hassle free, reliable, lightweight and phenomenal in low light. I love my Epic-X (Old school) but man, a camera going down in front of a big client a few times, that's terrible.
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I don't think this is particularly fair. The RED's we use have been very reliable. And comparing the quality of an A7S to a RED is apples to oranges.

We get asked to work with a A LOT of Sony footage in post (FS7, A7, etc) and I would call it "ok" at best, and much noisier than advertised.

Much of it is also recorded 8bit internally, which is miles away from Redcode RAW.
 
Björn Benckert said:
On epic I had a rental client that manage to bend the connectors of my red Vlock adapter when it was unmounted. Then they ruined the +1 module trying to mount it... the + 1 module ruined my pro I/O module. and then also my XL battery module and my Quad Volt module... Then they rented a Vlock plate and AC connector and got going with their shoot... That kind of made me pull out of providing for small rental clients. Was simply not worth the hassle. Cost a fortune to get it all fixed even though red was quite nice to me.
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That's why here in Mexico nobody rents their professional camera without sending a camera technician ("encargado de cámara" in spanish). The camera technician is mandatory whenever you rent a professional camera and is in charge of taking care of the equipment, setting up and preparing the camera, sometimes his function is like a second camera assistant. The salary is about US$130 per 10 working hours depending on the equipment and the company.
 
Nick Morrison said:
My two cents on this is as follows (as someone that's used lots of RED cameras).

1) Power

I've found that it's helpful with RED cameras to really think about how you power them, as I've been told by some engineers who work on multiple cameras that RED brains are the most finicky about power, and will shut themselves down if the power going to them is a bit "off" (almost as a safety measure).

IE, it's better to lean on premium batteries (Blueshape for example), and a reliable power distro (we use a Scatterbox), as this can really help regulate the power going to the brain.


2) Foolcontrol

True the range from internal wifi isn't great, but if you use something like a Teraderk MDR or MDR-SK that generally boosts your range A LOT.
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If the Brain is that susceptible to power fluctuation etc . . . maybe have a circuit in there to condition the incoming power and shut down if it senses an issue . . . before it hits the Brain's core. If something is actually killing the Brain perhaps have an error log to record the event. Every wonder why it takes a second for your phone to start charging after you plug it in? It's checking the power source before letting it in.

A $50K rig, that your career depends on, should be extremely dependable. Like NASA, I always take reliability over new gee wiz features. That's a big part why I don't use gimbals etc when a mono pod, dolly or cage plus handles would do the job. If it's electronic - try to eliminate it from your kit. I'm looking very closely at in camera stabilization and post production tricks to get the shot without the ridiculous gack a gimbal requires.

Specifically to RED: have an extreme comprehensive testing protocol to stress test any camera which has been returned for repair. Run the thing for 24hrs with a test script which simulates every known working condition. It's a trust issue - when a cam comes back from the factory it should be 100% reliable. That takes a huge effort to design, implement and continuously update a protocol which finds problems before shipment back to customer. That effort, while not glamorous, is essential for reliability and trust.

Cam Brand A v. Cam Brand B becomes less about image quality etc after you've been abandoned in front of professional peers due to a technical crash. No matter what the issue is - it's your fault.
 
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Wow, that is a horrible experience. Hopefully, you get it fixed and it works out better for you. These cameras are too much of an investment to not have them work flawlessly.
 
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