My Review of the F55

[Dave Blackham]

They all have their pros and cons. An F55 isnt an Epic though in terms of its capability. The biggest issue is it isnt near being finished yet in terms of whats needed from it.

 

[luigivaltulini]

Epic and Mysterium-X have now been on the market for years and not months as f55 or f5, maybe 'to postpone the case a few months with Dragon, so we can have a good comparison.

 

[Phil Holland]

I should mention that I had my Epic with the new fan algorithms and new fans next to an F55 a week ago.

My camera is nice and quiet now

 

[Julio Quintana]

I should mention that I had my Epic with the new fan algorithms and new fans next to an F55 a week ago.

My camera is nice and quiet now

Nice. I ordered those fans the minute they went live at NAB and still haven't received anything. Are you using a beta model for testing or are production models shipping already?

 

[Norbert Jalitsch]

I recently worked on a reality show that wanted the look of Epic but the user interface closer to an ENG camera. They settled on the F55 with the Fujinon 19-90mm zoom and it works great. Built in ND filters, audio pots, white balance preset switches, auto audio levels, long battery life, quiet fan, etc.

I own an Epic and love it, but there are jobs where functionality and convenience are more important than image quality. For run n' gun documentary type work, I would use countless other cameras before pulling out my Epic.

+1 on that.

cheers

 

[Michael Dalton]

I must have ADD. I skimmed the review.

 

[Michael Dalton]

I recently worked on a reality show that wanted the look of Epic but the user interface closer to an ENG camera. They settled on the F55 with the Fujinon 19-90mm zoom and it works great. Built in ND filters, audio pots, white balance preset switches, auto audio levels, long battery life, quiet fan, etc.

I own an Epic and love it, but there are jobs where functionality and convenience are more important than image quality. For run n' gun documentary type work, I would use countless other cameras before pulling out my Epic.

I use my epic for run and gun stuff all the time in the doc world. I shoot in extreme conditions in super fast pace environment without a crew, and epic works great. Wouldn't sacrifice anything. If you don't have a camera, I guess what ever feels and looks right for you is the best camera for you. When I get back into my edit suite and start pulling curves on my work in Redcine, I get goosebumps. My wife likes it too, lugging the epic up mountains and into the jungle has made me strong! I'm sure the F55 and f5 are good cameras, I just don't own them.

 

[Phil Holland]

Nice. I ordered those fans the minute they went live at NAB and still haven't received anything. Are you using a beta model for testing or are production models shipping already?

I'm pretty sure this is a production model as I paid for it and it's "mine". I did actually physically pick it up though.

Main things that I can say about the new fans. Lots of folks will say they are louder! And yep, they sure as heck can be. However, they are louder because in a "maximum push" they move a good amount of air.

Okay, away from that. Because they are moving more air overall they are slightly better at cooling the camera off as they perform in unison. Combined with the new fan algorithms they make for a wonderful combo.

I have been using "Adaptive" at 70°, which I have confirmed with Red as "okay for everyday use" as some where concerned about that. In standard shooting conditions they are quiet. When the camera warms up a bit you hear them ramp up slightly and then mellow back down once temperature has been regulated.

 

[Mike Kushner]

Love my Epic...but F5 and F55 give me something I desperately needed...a 35mm size sensor with PL mount that gives a choice to record a 1080, ready to edit file, right out of the camera without unacceptable compression (like F3). If Epic had done that, too...would be the perfect camera. Lost too many weekends transcoding for a TV interview shoot where no one cares about the number of pixels or raw grading possibilities. Unfortunately my day to day living is in broadcast television (what would still be considered high-end for some: national network, sports-feature work), but does not need to hold up for the big screen or future proofing. If Epic had just offered a high speed 1080 solution, i would have bought two more bodies...but despite the feedback in posts, sadly they would not. I salute Red for the pioneering and without them there would not be an F5 or F55 for under 100K. If you need to shoot high speed (above 60 fps) or interval recording (longer interval than 1 fps) the only option today, right now, is the Epic. The Sony will not do that today...and the future promise means not much to me until it happens. Please Red, create a selectable 1080 choice in ProRes or Dnx or an open, editable format without converting or carrying another set of cards, card reader, etc...become the perfect camera for me! Sony just got a lot of $$ I would have preferred to spend with you! One of the problems today is that codecs are all intellectual property requiring licensing and royalties to all the developers. Lets have an open codec that everyone can use without proprietary software...that works with all platforms. They say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Love my Epic...but F5 and F55 give me something I desperately needed...a 35mm size sensor with PL mount that gives a choice to record a 1080, ready to edit file, right out of the camera without unacceptable compression (like F3). If Epic had done that, too...would be the perfect camera. Lost too many weekends transcoding for a TV interview shoot where no one cares about the number of pixels or raw grading possibilities. Unfortunately my day to day living is in broadcast television (what would still be considered high-end for some: national network, sports-feature work), but does not need to hold up for the big screen or future proofing. If Epic had just offered a high speed 1080 solution, i would have bought two more bodies...but despite the feedback in posts, sadly they would not. I salute Red for the pioneering and without them there would not be an F5 or F55 for under 100K. If you need to shoot high speed (above 60 fps) or interval recording (longer interval than 1 fps) the only option today, right now, is the Epic. The Sony will not do that today...and the future promise means not much to me until it happens. Please Red, create a selectable 1080 choice in ProRes or Dnx or an open, editable format without converting or carrying another set of cards, card reader, etc...become the perfect camera for me! Sony just got a lot of $$ I would have preferred to spend with you! One of the problems today is that codecs are all intellectual property requiring licensing and royalties to all the developers. Lets have an open codec that everyone can use without proprietary software...that works with all platforms. They say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one.

Would the Samurai Blade solve some of these issues for you? Smaller than a Pix240, while also serving as an AC's extra monitor...all at once.

 

[Mike Kushner]

Would the Samurai Blade solve some of these issues for you? Smaller than a Pix240, while also serving as an AC's extra monitor...all at once.

Thanks for the suggestion...but not with over-cranking unless you take the time to play back from the camera into the device.

 

[Michael Dalton]

Love my Epic...but F5 and F55 give me something I desperately needed...a 35mm size sensor with PL mount that gives a choice to record a 1080, ready to edit file, right out of the camera without unacceptable compression (like F3). If Epic had done that, too...would be the perfect camera. Lost too many weekends transcoding for a TV interview shoot where no one cares about the number of pixels or raw grading possibilities. Unfortunately my day to day living is in broadcast television (what would still be considered high-end for some: national network, sports-feature work), but does not need to hold up for the big screen or future proofing. If Epic had just offered a high speed 1080 solution, i would have bought two more bodies...but despite the feedback in posts, sadly they would not. I salute Red for the pioneering and without them there would not be an F5 or F55 for under 100K. If you need to shoot high speed (above 60 fps) or interval recording (longer interval than 1 fps) the only option today, right now, is the Epic. The Sony will not do that today...and the future promise means not much to me until it happens. Please Red, create a selectable 1080 choice in ProRes or Dnx or an open, editable format without converting or carrying another set of cards, card reader, etc...become the perfect camera for me! Sony just got a lot of $$ I would have preferred to spend with you! One of the problems today is that codecs are all intellectual property requiring licensing and royalties to all the developers. Lets have an open codec that everyone can use without proprietary software...that works with all platforms. They say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one.

In a way, I'm sure Jim thinks like Steve Jobs did, in order to get to a certain place (i.e. the 4k world), you need omit the technology that has been holding us back. I think he thinks 1080 is the equivalent to cd/dvd drive. Jim is going forward, not back. Like with apple and Jobs, people are looking what Red is doing... case in point the f5 and f55. I'm sure many of us here wonder if epic 006 was reverse engineered and bunch of 5's added. I know without Red, there would not be a single 4k screen coming to market today. So the $$$ he lost in you, he gained by selling 50 epics each to PJ and JC.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Thanks for the suggestion...but not with over-cranking unless you take the time to play back from the camera into the device.

Gotcha.

 

[James McLellan]

I should mention that I had my Epic with the new fan algorithms and new fans next to an F55 a week ago.

My camera is nice and quiet now

Phil, you and Julio look a lot alike. You should take a picture of yourself in the exact same pose as his avatar and post it. I'll bet it would be unbelievable. Sorry. So off topic.

 

[Phil Holland]

Phil, you and Julio look a lot alike. You should take a picture of yourself in the exact same pose as his avatar and post it. I'll bet it would be unbelievable. Sorry. So off topic.

Heh. I can sort of see that.

 

[M Most]

I know without Red, there would not be a single 4k screen coming to market today. .

I think that's a bit of an overstatement. While I give Red a lot of credit for a lot of things, they didn't "invent" 4K as an image format. There was a lot of momentum building up behind 4K film scanning and mastering as early as 2005, championed by people like Chris Cookson (head of technology at Warner Bros. at the time, now with Sony). There were a number of demonstrations and comparison tests done that were shown to many in the industry. What Red did was make it more known to the general public (at least somewhat) and affordable if you didn't want to shoot film. As for the home monitor market, that's driven by the consumer electronics manufacturers, not by cameras or even production. Once the HD market became rather saturated, they needed something new to sell, especially since the quality and thus the shelf life of consumer electronics has gone up exponentially. So I think the move to 4K or something similar was destined to happen regardless of what production was or was not doing. Red certainly helped to push that, but there are a lot of other factors in play. I think there's a much more direct correlation between Red's efforts and the development of cameras by other manufacturers, notably Sony and Canon - although once again, Sony has been talking about 4K for a long time, and was, in fact, the leading and essentially only manufacturer of 4K projection devices until very recently.

 

[Michael Dalton]

I think that's a bit of an overstatement. While I give Red a lot of credit for a lot of things, they didn't "invent" 4K as an image format. There was a lot of momentum building up behind 4K film scanning and mastering as early as 2005, championed by people like Chris Cookson (head of technology at Warner Bros. at the time, now with Sony). There were a number of demonstrations and comparison tests done that were shown to many in the industry. What Red did was make it more known to the general public (at least somewhat) and affordable if you didn't want to shoot film. As for the home monitor market, that's driven by the consumer electronics manufacturers, not by cameras or even production. Once the HD market became rather saturated, they needed something new to sell, especially since the quality and thus the shelf life of consumer electronics has gone up exponentially. So I think the move to 4K or something similar was destined to happen regardless of what production was or was not doing. Red certainly helped to push that, but there are a lot of other factors in play. I think there's a much more direct correlation between Red's efforts and the development of cameras by other manufacturers, notably Sony and Canon - although once again, Sony has been talking about 4K for a long time, and was, in fact, the leading and essentially only manufacturer of 4K projection devices until very recently.

what red did was open everything up for the content creator. If there is no content beyond feature films, there would be no market for TV's. So had they not entered the market, and "forced" a lot of camera companies to adopt 4k a lot sooner, then the electronic manufactures would not have followed. Maybe home computer screens, but even that's doubtful. The professional market I can see making 4k screens for what you described, but they would have remained a rather high price item.

 

[M Most]

what red did was open everything up for the content creator. If there is no content beyond feature films, there would be no market for TV's. So had they not entered the market, and "forced" a lot of camera companies to adopt 4k a lot sooner, then the electronic manufactures would not have followed. Maybe home computer screens, but even that's doubtful. The professional market I can see making 4k screens for what you described, but they would have remained a rather high price item.

You're talking about production. I'm talking about the entire entertainment (and non-entertainment) ecosystem that determines what consumers have and/or want. I was also referring to the "history" of higher resolution imaging that was in existence before anyone thought it was practical to do this with electronic cameras, but that was entirely possible and practical with film. I really don't think people buy large screen televisions to watch YouTube. They buy them to watch television programs, motion pictures, sports, news, special events, and many, many other things. And they buy them to watch that stuff, not to shoot it. Production and consumption are two very different and only peripherally related things. Contrary to what you state, there is and always has been an awful lot of "content" beyond feature films. That was never the issue and still isn't. I guess my point is that the appearance of 4K televisions is not any direct reaction to the availability of 4K cameras. It is an attempt to reinvent a market so that consumers will buy new devices. The fact that there are 4K cameras makes it a bit easier to sell, but even if we were still shooting film, we had gotten to the point where 4K scanning was becoming a real time process, so that would have provided the "content" anyway, at least at the network and studio level. Don['t overlook the fact that when HD was introduced, there was not only very little "content" available in that format, but there were essentially no consumer level devices to shoot it. That didn't stop the electronics manufacturers from touting it as the next "must have," in much the same way that they're trying to convince consumers that they now "need" 4K sets. The more things change............:001_rolleyes:

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Agree with Mike I wholeheartedly do, but there is one thing that still baffles me in this whole 4K revolution, or evolution more like it.

There is very little 4K content to consume at home, just like there was when HD was first introduced, and although the availability of said content will be/should be far quicker this time around, that ignores the fact that where this move should first take place is at the cinema exhibition level. Sony has had 4K projectors for a LONG while now, before there were any films shot in 4K, and thousands of theaters have now implemented these projectors as part of their conversion into digital. And now we have Barco and Christie also making 4K projectors. The home/TV market may not be quite ready yet but the cinema market has been for quite a while. So where are the 4K movies? Very, very, very few shows are shown at 4K, and in very, very, very few venues. Why? Everyone seems to agree that 4K makes more sense at the large size of cinema screens. Add to that the undeniable fact that studios and exhibitors are desperate to find new gimmicks to bring audiences to set their butts onto those $10-20 seats, a fact amply demonstrated by the "new again" 3D trend. So what's holding them from exhibiting in 4K, using those projectors that have been in place for years now? 4K finish too expensive? Please! The cost of mastering and delivering in 4K is a tiny fraction of what they spend in promoting films, trying to guarantee that all-important "opening", and it certainly is WAY cheaper than the widespread 2D to 3D conversions they make many films go through nowadays. Add to that the fact that a lot of celluloid acquired films can easily be scanned at 4K, those scanners have existed for even longer than the 4K projectors, and it is hard to understand what is holding back the migration to theatrical 4K exhibition....

And if a technology which is perfectly suited for a particular medium, and the infrastructure to showcase such technology is mostly in place, and still that medium is not championing said technology, then what are we to infer from that myopic behavior? And don't forget that, however disconnected from each other the parts that form the whole of the conglomerate that is Sony function, they pioneered 4K projection, have the biggest lineup of 4K cameras AND they own a major movie studio...

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Totally agree that the consumer electronics industry is desperately seeking any rallying cry to motivate people to upgrade. That said, at least part of the cratering of the S3D market was the lack of plentiful content - IMO Mr. Dalton is correct that thousands of RED cameras in the wild is helping the odds of the UHD/4K having legs.

This thread started off as a glancing blow to the F55 and an affirmation for Epic. Now that we are talking UHD/4K ecosystem development it might be worth noting that the F55 (and to a lesser degree the F5) might actually have an even bigger impact. The F55 form factor may owe more of its heritage to the Epic than any other "video" camera on the market, but its far more familiar operationally for video crews. With the live UHD/4K output the F55 appears to be a sports, special events and general broadcast camera the industry can embrace.

Not looking to contest Mr. Most's notes about the macro forces in play, but having a cost effective way to generate thousands of hours of content for UHD/4K is an oar in the water.

Cheers - #19