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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

My Octacopter rig.

Is it just a lift power issue, or are there other reasons why almost all copters designed to fly Epic have 8 motors/props such as coaxial X8 configurations or octocopters? Say, is it obvious Y6 is out of question? It's interesting that Janne decided to use 17 inch blades.
 
Lauri my understanding is that you have three benefits from 8 rotors :

extra lift.
redundancy in case of an emergency motor/ESC/Prop failure.
More subtle and smooth movement and control as each motor works less hard.

of course there is some irony - with more motors,ESCs, and Props there are more failure points - but - a coaxial or X8 config seems to be a good compromise if you need a smaller rig. (But less foldable ?)
 
Dan Kanes said:
Lauri my understanding is that you have three benefits from 8 rotors :

extra lift.
redundancy in case of an emergency motor/ESC/Prop failure.
More subtle and smooth movement and control as each motor works less hard.

of course there is some irony - with more motors,ESCs, and Props there are more failure points - but - a coaxial or X8 config seems to be a good compromise if you need a smaller rig. (But less foldable ?)
Click to expand...

Yes, engineering is always a trade-off between various factors. Wonder if anybody has thought of a quadcopter or Y6 config with Tiger U8 KV170 motors? They have an impressive almost 15g/W efficiency. According to the manufacturer, a quadcopter with four U8 KV170 motors can lift the 12kg --which btw is the same weight as Janne's beautiful copter. See:

http://www.rctigermotor.com/html/2013/Efficiency-Type_0928/94.html
 
Really awesome stuff.
Will absolutely get in touch with you guys when I need some stuff shot!
Always been dreaming about heli-shots, it's only recently I've reached the budgets where we can use them :)
 
An expert gave me a link to page

http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc.htm

which enables one to evaluate the performance of different copter combinations quickly and rather accurateöy. After playing some time with different data it became obvious that a putting together copter to fly Epic is a compromise among many things.

Here are couple examples. Played with different combinations and ended up with a reasonable compromize; an octocopter with Tiger MN4012-11 motors. (Interestingly enough, the new Cinestar Heavy Lift octocopter designed to Epic seem to have precisely these motors.)

OctocopterMN4012-11.png


The new Tiger U8-10 motors are indeed wonderful. With these motors a quadcopter is enough to carry Epic, and a hexacopter would have more than enough power. However, the drawback is the very big size of propellers causing other kind of issues.

QuadcopterU8-10.png
 
I can really recommend the FamousHobby copters and gimbals. While having the same issues like other systems out there (adjustability etc.), they offer an amazing price performance ration.

I bought several of the FamousHobby gimbals to to test motors and components for my own product.

6g9vmpzn.jpg


9zgvopmu.jpg
 
Victor MOREIRA said:
Gotta have one of these... Bye bye cranes.
Click to expand...

Well, no, not if you're using sound (jibs/cranes are for the most part silent) , and not if you are in an area where using octocopters is illegal or dangerous. Cranes are much lower risk in general - it only takes skill to get a good shot, but no skill not to crash the thing so they are kind of idiot-proof, completely unlike octocopters.

To each tool its proper place.
 
hehe Yes a lot of my stuff is from FamousHobby :) I have also built a gimbals exactly like this, but I thought it was kinda heavy and chose a lighter one in favor for copter control and flying abliity. You have to calibrate the alexmos gimbalcontrol very carefully or you get small vibrations. On the Aurena hill shot I was just playing and all was not perfect. You can see small vibrations on the frame, but no big deal. Those are easyly removed in post also.

When flying octas like this, weight is just evil. Every gram you can remove, you gain in control, stability and flying time. DOP, directors, camera guys have always an automatic mentality to add stuff on a camera. Here you have to do just opposite. Every thing that is not needed must go. You need a arri master prime? Sure? than we just can fly 3m over threes for 7 min? Can ver use a canon lens? Than we can fly 50m higher and for 13 min :)



David Kellermann said:
I can really recommend the FamousHobby copters and gimbals. While having the same issues like other systems out there (adjustability etc.), they offer an amazing price performance ration.

I bought several of the FamousHobby gimbals to to test motors and components for my own product.

6g9vmpzn.jpg


9zgvopmu.jpg
Click to expand...
 
JanneJansson said:
hehe Yes a lot of my stuff is from FamousHobby :) I have also built a gimbals exactly like this, but I thought it was kinda heavy and chose a lighter one in favor for copter control and flying abliity. You have to calibrate the alexmos gimbalcontrol very carefully or you get small vibrations. On the Aurena hill shot I was just playing and all was not perfect. You can see small vibrations on the frame, but no big deal. Those are easyly removed in post also.

When flying octas like this, weight is just evil. Every gram you can remove, you gain in control, stability and flying time. DOP, directors, camera guys have always an automatic mentality to add stuff on a camera. Here you have to do just opposite. Every thing that is not needed must go. You need a arri master prime? Sure? than we just can fly 3m over threes for 7 min? Can ver use a canon lens? Than we can fly 50m higher and for 13 min :)
Click to expand...

Thats why you need to start buying FD lenses... :)
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
Is it just a lift power issue, or are there other reasons why almost all copters designed to fly Epic have 8 motors/props such as coaxial X8 configurations or octocopters? Say, is it obvious Y6 is out of question? It's interesting that Janne decided to use 17 inch blades.
Click to expand...

You have to have enough force to fly good. If you use X8 - up-down mounting of motors, then you can have bigger motors and larger props the I8 or V8-mounting. When I build, I don't know exactly what props that will work, so some distance between then is good. There are some powerful Y6 like the Paparazzo.

HAB1005_10182.jpg
 
Any reason why your using Lipo's to power the camera and not say a red volt in a side handle? Is it a weight issue or are you just wanting to power the camera for longer periods?
 
Phil Aitkens said:
Any reason why your using Lipo's to power the camera and not say a red volt in a side handle? Is it a weight issue or are you just wanting to power the camera for longer periods?
Click to expand...

Yes both, less weight, longer time. I know my lipos very good and they are also very afordable.
 
john zerihoun said:
You have my respect sir. :)

I have to come by you next time I'm back in good old Sweden. Actually, I'll be back in Sthlm beginning next month, if you have the time, I would love to pick your brain and perhaps get a demonstration. ;)

I've been looking into buying a ready-to-fly. Any tips on whom I should check out for the best best machine and best bang for the buck?

Edit: I should add that I'm looking to buy 2-3 machines and they will be used in various locations so the easier to travel, the better. Anyone that has good tips are of course welcome to answer. :)
Click to expand...

Thank you :)
Just call me and I fix some cool stuff for u.
+46 (0)703 68 97 65
 
Sweet Janne,

Next week I'll be in Sweden. Will contact you and chekc for a time to meet up.
 
Late update for the $4k drone: Done about 2500 commercial flights with it and 3 feature films and countless ads. Here is a pic from last week in northern sweden during the storm. In the shopping bag is my new Dragon Carbon running like a tank in -10 degree. They had an alexa also on the shoot but kept it in a windbag most of the time while the Dragon was just sitting in the snow. No problem everything working very good. Really just a dumb of luck that this drone been working as good as this, but been extremely aware of every everything going on and fixed it. New landing gear otherwise same drone. Had extra battery powering the Dragon during shots keeping it warm to maintain black calibration. Then fly like crazy and got awesome shots.

ski.jpg
 
That little package there comes in at just over €5,600 would you not consider taking orders for your own build?
 
When flying octas like this said:
This is a big reason we keep using single rotor helicopters (alongside our MR rigs). When it comes to speed, maneuvering and payload, the SR destroys any MR out there. We get 13 minutes flying Epic with a master prime on a Movi M10 and can hit over 65 mph. With lighter glass we can hit 80 mph. At these speeds the gimbal has to be fully enclosed to reduce wind buffeting though. I still prefer a MR when flying close to talent but It would also be a bad day to hit someone with an 18" prop.
Click to expand...
 
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