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MX upgrade in France and custom duty

Olivier Madar

Olivier Madar

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Hi,

I just went to Fedex this afternoon for sending my RedOne or MX upgrade (2070). And they said that I will have to pay TVA and duties again !! They don't do temporary export, and I have to find a "transit air" company, and Red have to send back the RedOne through the same transit air. If not, I have to pay again VAT and taxes...

So, my question is : who has already done the MX upgrade in France and how did you send The RedOne ?

Do you have any ideas or suggestions ?


Olivier
 
Hi Olivier,

Fedex guy probably deals with export and knows nothing about import. Call the Fedex import people.

I've tried other couriers and they are all about the same or worse. Stick with Fedex because they handled the original import.


You need:

a Original Tracking Number
b Fedex account number
c State it is warranty repair/upgrade

The most important is your original tracking no. That is the tracking number from your original import of the camera. This number allows Fedex to access your previous importation details when the camera is returned.

Make sure to say on the Air Waybill that it is a warranty repair or upgrade.

Also, you probably have a Fedex account even if you don't know it. If you know the number put it on the waybill. If not phone Fedex and see if they have one for you. They give you a new number every-time you import something unless you put your number on the AirWaybill. This creates no end of confusion so it is best to use one number. This will ensure they don't bill the TVA.

I think this is everything but it doesn't do any harm to call the Fedex customs/import people (not sure what they are called in France but they handle the importation documents when the camera is returned) they know what you need to have in order to avoid being taxed again. They will tell you what else will make life easier.
 
Thank you for your answer. I have call the custom by phone. They tell me "you have to find a "specialist" (called a "commissionnaire en douanes" in french)... This country is so complex that people creates company just for managing this stupid complexity.

So, what shall I do ?
- Yes Fedex did my original import (I am very afraid of asking them the number, it will be an enormous pain)
- The "commissionnaires en douanes" don't have it, are much more expensive than Fedex, but should be "expert" in such bargain.

Nobody did it in France before me ?


Olivier

billymc said:
Hi Olivier,

The guy at Fedex is an idiot. He probably deals with export and knows nothing about import. Call the Fedex import people.

I've tried other couriers and they are all about the same or worse. Stick with Fedex because they handled the original import.

I've spent hours talking to idiots and assholes in Fedex before finally getting someone who was helpful. - they do exist.

You need:

a Original Tracking Number
b Fedex account number
c State it is warranty repair/upgrade

The most important is your original tracking no. That is the tracking number from your original import of the camera. This number allows Fedex to access your previous importation details when the camera is returned.

Make sure to say on the Air Waybill that it is a warranty repair or upgrade.

Also, you probably have a Fedex account even if you don't know it. If you know the number put it on the waybill. If not phone Fedex and see if they have one for you. They give you a new number every-time you import something unless you put your number on the AirWaybill. This creates no end of confusion so it is best to use one number. This will ensure they don't bill the TVA.

I think this is everything but it doesn't do any harm to call the Fedex customs/import people (not sure what they are called in France but they handle the importation documents when the camera is returned) they know what you need to have in order to avoid being taxed again. They will tell you what else will make life easier.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Olivier,

It is difficult to imagine that Fedex can handle this in Ireland and the Uk but not in France.

The tracking number will be on the email Red sent you before delivering your camera. If you don't have it you might have the invoice Fedex sent you to collect the VAT on the original - you can get the number from that or try your Red rep.
 
Thank you,


I did not think about retrieving Red email for finding the Fedex tracking number. Red only works with Fedex, so if I take another company, I will have much more trouble. So, I think I have to contact a "chief" at Fedex France.


Olivier



billymc said:
Hi Olivier,

It is difficult to imagine that Fedex can handle this in Ireland and the Uk but not in France.

The tracking number will be on the email Red sent you before delivering your camera. If you don't have it you might have the invoice Fedex sent you to collect the VAT on the original - you can get the number from that or try your Red rep.
Click to expand...
 
Olivier,

I had the same problem a few years back with the same "explanation" : Fedex doesn't do temporary exports. It's a problem Red has to solve, as they're Fedex clients. Fedex is just a big piece of shit. I don't know how Red is going to improve this when the Scarlet will be available, but I really hope they will find a way to repair these cameras without getting stuck with customs problems.

A possible solution for you : trying to see with Red at Pinewood if they can send your camera directly to their headquarters. A UK to France shipping should be less problematic, although the UK aren't in Europe (no Schengen space). Red should have chosen Germany for their European base, less problems for real Europeans ;-)
 
I'm not in France of course, but RED Europe are using FedEx regularly and we experience very few problems with temporary export and imports.
The trick here is to do exactly what Billy has said, but in addition we ask FedEx to register the export via a 'Pre-Alert' form. This will return a document to us with that registration number. Upon return, Fedex should contact you and ask how you wish the import to be cleared. You must instruct them that it is a Repair Return and they must register that import. Again you should get the registration number.
We then have 6 months to give the 'balanced' Export Entry Number and Import Entry Numbers to our Tax office and unless something is wrong, we hear no more.
Unfortunately, due to import requirements at the receiving US office, I am unable to offer to ship from the UK office.
 
Thanks Alan, but this unfortunately doesn't work at all this way in Europe. You can't really generalyze your situation in the UK compared to Europe which has its own customs regulations. It looks like things haven't improved since a few years judging by the number of people I know in Europe who are running into problems with customs when repairing/updating or even buying their Reds.

If things were as easy as you pretend, Alan, you should be able to send Olivier's Red to your headquarters without any problems :closedeyes: ...

I'll probably buy a Scarlet S35 system but this is a really worrying problem. It's just not possible to rely on this kind of shipments back and forth, especially if the warranty of the new models will be 1 year (not confirmed ?). I've been saying the same thing for about 2 years now.

At Red Europe you should also be able to repair and upgrade MX bodies from the start. Sorry to sound harsh, but it's really a serious problem that Red should solve for good.
 
Last edited:
Like I said, I'm not in France and I don't mean to generalise but rather offer how it works here (we are in the EU and 'should be harmonised' :laugh:) - Ultimately we want to be in a situation whereby the UK office can look after EU repairs in their entirety. The MX Upgrade is a special requirement and RED have set up a dedicated facility to handle the demand. We aren't in a position to do that in the UK.
Problem with FedEx is they are a courier company, not a freight company - as has been said already, they rely on the customer providing the appropriate paperwork. If you then have additional complications with French authorities, then perhaps the only way to go would be to use a bona-fide freight agent?
 
This may sounds like an expensive option, but have you considered flying to Lake Forest and staying there for a week while the upgrade is performed?
 
Hi Olivier, yes Fedex closed their temporary export office in France and recommend you go thru a "transitaire"...

Most of those "middle guys" we contacted before wanted to use their own carrier and not Fedex. The process seemed both complex, hazardous and expensive (we got quotes of approx 10 times Fedex in't priority shipping cost).

It was quite a complex path to gather all the info and do it all manually by ourselves but we managed to went through half of that french custom paperwork maze and did send our RED at CDG airport today.

We lost half a day today between the custom office in the freight zone and the Fedex counter to manage to do it directly. With all the information gathered in the previous days we had prepared all the documents needed to export it under that special economic regime called "perfectionnement passif" (EX2 régime 21) :

http://www.douane.gouv.fr/page.asp?id=227

We will have to also deal ourself with the re-import process when the camera gets back, meaning another half day at the airport minimum. It will need to stay at Fedex until we clear the customs and pay taxes on the upgrade/improvement part (not on the whole camera).

You can private message me if you want more details but honestly I'd recommend you try to find a good "transitaire" that could handle it directly (and one that could still use Fedex to keep it simple for RED) as it took us a lot of time, patience and paperwork to do it properly...
 
I think the fact that every time we have to send camera back to USA is actually an issue and something Red shouldn't underestimated. I really hope that the London branch or so will be soon able to offer every possible service including sale that Red USA could offer...

v*
 
Vincent Thomas said:
I think the fact that every time we have to send camera back to USA is actually an issue and something Red shouldn't underestimated. I really hope that the London branch or so will be soon able to offer every possible service including sale that Red USA could offer...

v*
Click to expand...

RED Europe is now a full service facility... they can do everything, except for MX sensor upgrades.
 
Will the pro-forma you has sent me of the x-m sensor and red rocket the same
as the final commercial invoice of the updated camera?

Last year I had a very big problem when we asked you to repair our camara
You decided to collect it from our office and send it back
after being repaired for it was under warranty.-
Then, you decided to use FEDEX services so as to take and bring back
the camera to us.-
But, FEDEX never does temporary import or export of goods and the Local
Authorities considered that the camara was being sent away as a definitive
export and when it returned to Spain we had to pay 3000 euros again as if
we were importing a new camera.-
The Customs office in Spain did not consider the paper stating that the
camera was under a warranty of repair, they only considered the
value of the camara in the document 17.500 US dollars.-

If you put the total price of the m-x sensor and the red rocket on the
invoice is going to came back, I will only have to pay that vat (16% of
8750usd) and the import will be ok.
But if you put the price of the camera also, I will have to pay an extra
of 3.000 euros again (for the third time).

Can you make sure that the final commercial invoice will be exactly equal
to the pro forma?
What about the shipping insurance when the camera returns to Spain?
What kind of documents are you going to attach to the camera when returns?
 
french customs follow up

french customs follow up

follow up on our camera upgrade and french customs...

camera is back with MX sensor, we only paid for import duties and VAT on the improvement part of the camera (5750 USD + shipping) and everything went fine (camera was held at FEDEX until we filled the re-import paper ourself at the same airport custom office used for the temporary export).

It does take some time to do it manually but we didn't have to pay any middle man... here is the receipe :

- fill export document EX A 21 at french custom
- send camera via fedex with only the 2 RED provided US custom documents
- when camera was back at fedex after MX upgrade : fill re-import document IM A 61 21 and pay taxes on upgrade work
- give fedex a copy of this paper to release the camera and have it delivered

HTH

Mikael
 
I will try Nova del Bene, as an intermediate mandatory these days. You will be informed as how it goes.


Olivier
 
Help is needed from Red !!

Help is needed from Red !!

It has been more than a month that I try to send my camera to Red...

I get the MX upgrade ready message the 2th may, and the camera is still not arrived in the US.

First try : Fedex. Wrong move, they closed their temporary export office
Second try : Savino Del Bene. They took the camera but did not send it because they can't be sure it won't be blocked at the US custom. They contact Red, but Red ask thema question like "who send you the camera ?". I tryed to contact Nick by email to make the join between Christophe (the one who cares about my Red at Savino Del Bene) and him but I get no answer.

So, what can I do ??? It is crazy. Still no camera and no MX. I am sure there are a lot of French people that will need the same in the near future.

Please Red, help me !!
 
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