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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Mike Seymour

Sure

We have already started planning a shoot with an actress from Africa. I think a skin tone test with wide exposure requirement is a brilliant idea.
I am keen to do a few 'narrative drama' style shot - we have loads of action stuff...

I welcome any other ideas...

Mike
 
I am not sure why I am allowed to mention this - but as Jim said I could ...

Stage 1 of HDRx was mix

Stage 2 of HDRx was temporal - as in Magic Motion

Stage 3 of HDRx is spacial ... as in FUEL

We have been testing and working with RED on this at fxphd.com and I must say the results are really impressive. FUEL is a great name - it really is going to be brilliant.

A point I tried to make to a few people at NAB was that the first SDK using HDRx that is now out in beta from most of the companies at NAB are using stage 1. Red is not holding back stage 2 or 3 - they still need a little work. But as an independent third party I would hate to see people thinking that stage 1 was it for HDRx ... of course RED has always said that it will improve but the improvements are huge, valid and seemingly been worked on day and night.

I have no ideas on schedule or plans - other than clearly it is a little early to post images- but I want to again underline how well the team seems to be doing in staying away from that ugly hdr look of tone mapping and once again express my admiration for the work Graeme and the team are doing.

Of course Jim if I misunderstood your email about -" it is OK to comment on FUEL" ... sorry !!

Mike
 
Certainly OK to post but Graeme may describe the Stages in a different way.

Jim

Mike Seymour said:
I am not sure why I am allowed to mention this - but as Jim said I could ...

Stage 1 of HDRx was mix

Stage 2 of HDRx was temporal - as in Magic Motion

Stage 3 of HDRx is spacial ... as in FUEL

We have been testing and working with RED on this at fxphd.com and I must say the results are really impressive. FUEL is a great name - it really is going to be brilliant.

A point I tried to make to a few people at NAB was that the first SDK using HDRx that is now out in beta from most of the companies at NAB are using stage 1. Red is not holding back stage 2 or 3 - they still need a little work. But as an independent third party I would hate to see people thinking that stage 1 was it for HDRx ... of course RED has always said that it will improve but the improvements are huge, valid and seemingly been worked on day and night.

I have no ideas on schedule or plans - other than clearly it is a little early to post images- but I want to again underline how well the team seems to be doing in staying away from that ugly hdr look of tone mapping and once again express my admiration for the work Graeme and the team are doing.

Of course Jim if I misunderstood your email about -" it is OK to comment on FUEL" ... sorry !!

Mike
Click to expand...
 
Mike, it would be great (if this is possible on the camera with the current firmware) to do some opposite HDRx. What I mean is your 'A' track is exposed for the highlight to be in range of normal exposure (in my mind this would be say a busy street at night, where the 'A' track is exposed for car headlamps) and the 'x' track is 2-3 stops overexposed, for the street.

just a thought. If you dont think this would yield any different results than exposing the 'a' track for the street and protecing the car headlamps 2-3 stops then do not bother. Just trying to think outside the box with HDRx

EDIT: if you or anyone else can think of situations where the 'opposite' HDRx would be more useful than the way Jim and others have mentioned using it, feel free to post. I am curious about how HDRx can help cinematography past just protecting highlights
 
Jannard said:
Certainly OK to post but Graeme may describe the Stages in a different way.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hey I hope everyone knows - I never speak for RED - just my 2C, but it certainly feels that way... and I mean that in a good way

As in each step solves even more and provides even more flexibility.
Mike
 
Yeah it would not work Anthony... good suggestion but not exactly possible :-)

If I had an exposure of f 5.6 for the car - the headlights might be f 16 ... if you expose for the headlights - on A - then the second B track (even shorter exposure) would not expose for the car it would be virtually black.. being always faster - short LESS light than the A track

Mike
 
Anthony Cote said:
Mike, it would be great (if this is possible on the camera with the current firmware) to do some opposite HDRx. What I mean is your 'A' track is exposed for the highlight to be in range of normal exposure (in my mind this would be say a busy street at night, where the 'A' track is exposed for car headlamps) and the 'x' track is 2-3 stops overexposed, for the street.
Click to expand...

Why not just use a longer exposure on the base exposure? No need to flip things around...you'd get the same thing.
 
Mike, is the frame overlay function enabled one the EPIC M, or the ability to overlay previous frame for frame matching etc...

Jarred mentioned it would be on the EPIC but not on the Scarlet (sad face).
 
Not that I have seen but it sounds just like the sort of thing I would love !!

The normal overlays are working - such as grid (for rule of thirds) etc...

But -well now I want this new overlay !!

mike

Mike
 
Mike Seymour said:
Sure

We have already started planning a shoot with an actress from Africa. I think a skin tone test with wide exposure requirement is a brilliant idea.
I am keen to do a few 'narrative drama' style shot - we have loads of action stuff...

I welcome any other ideas...

Mike
Click to expand...
Beautiful! I would love to see that.
The freedom that HDRX will provide in uncontrolled situations puts a smile on my face : )

Thanks Mike.
 
I'm curious: on contrasty, sunny daylight exteriors, what ISO do you find best to work at? With HDRx mode enabled, are you comfortable going with a lower ISO than you otherwise would have so as not to have to ND/stop down so much? Thanks.
 
Mike Seymour said:
Not that I have seen but it sounds just like the sort of thing I would love !!

The normal overlays are working - such as grid (for rule of thirds) etc...

But -well now I want this new overlay !!

mike

Mike
Click to expand...

Its been something I keep bringing up because I want it a little bit, it would make life so much easier in so many situations especially for frame matching. It was a while ago that Jarred (back in the Nov 30th thread) so it might have changed in the last year or so.

Of course the great thing would be the ability to reload JPEGS into the camera for a custom overlay of an image but I'm not sure how they were thinking of doing it. It might just be the case that you can flip back and forth between the last shot to match angles or lighting, or have a lowered opacity frame that you tagged from a previous shot so you could overlay it.

Tim Hole said:
...like the ability to overlay images for frame matching etc...

[I will shut up about that one day!!!]
Click to expand...

Jarred Land said:
Heh heh previous scene frame overlay is in Epic :)

#21 is much more special than that... :coolgleamA:
Click to expand...

Apologies if this is one of those "was the case and no longer is" situations and I got you excited about something that doesn't exist. ;)
 
Stacey Spears said:
I believe it is the name of the new algorithm for HDRx (to combine the two tracks) that will be in a future release of RCX and the SDK.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, thanks Stacey! As usual, amped on all this nifty tech, steamed at the fact that, as it appears, I wont be able to get into a RED until late this year, early next. I mean cripes, Jannard, give me a job, I'll help build theses things!

-burk
 
Yes Fuel is an advanced HDRx system that is in development, and early testing - but the good news is that it is very much an example of the continuing development of the HDRx beyond what is released today.


Mike
 
Mike Seymour said:
Yes Fuel is an advanced HDRx system that is in development, and early testing - but the good news is that it is very much an example of the continuing development of the HDRx beyond what is released today.


Mike
Click to expand...


Thanks Mike, really exciting stuff! I think the biggest draw to this camera for me, is the fact that it will allow me to devote more brain power to lighting, composition, lensing and exposure as the raw workflow + HDRx seems to alleviate most of the other camera setup concerns(besides audio). I might be off base, but this is what I'm taking away from it.

I'm done harping on RED for all of the delays and changes since these cameras were announced, they seem to be working really hard, I'm just forced into a position to give Sony more money in a couple of months(picking up a fs100+hdmi recorder combo) While Im sure for what I do, this setup will produce very nice images, I have a problem supporting companies like Sony that purposefully cripple their own products to protect their legacy cameras and to keep the hierarchy of their model lineup intact. With their newest product announcements, it seems Sony is recognizing that the days of this type of business model are numbered as Sony, Panasonic, Canon, JVC, compete their way down to a focused, 3-4 camera model lineup similar to how RED is doing with EPIC and Scarlet. Whether this takes 5, 10, or 20 years, I do think it will happen.

I believe that content is the most important aspect of filmaking. I'd rather have a VX2000 and a brilliant script than an Alexa and a turd any day, but with these sweeping changes in the industry, choices like these will never have to be made.

Big sensors, lots of framerate options, high rez, and raw recording with efficient compression will be the norm and nobody will be limited by tech....I'm okay with this.

-burk
 
If you're still looking for suggestions, I would be interested in seeing a compression wedge (2:1, 8:1, 15:1) in a couple situations: Forest, Portrait and Chroma Key.
 
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