May Update... The month of Raven

[Tom Dowler]

I understand that people get frustrated, but it's so easy to take for granted what an incredible camera you are able to get, at such a ridiculous price. Complaining that it takes longer to get to you than you'd like is churlish.

I remember saving up to buy the Sony PD150 back in the day. Pretty sure it cost about as much as a Raven does now. Sure it was available straight away, but that thing was a stone age relic compared to the cameras available today.

Red's deal has always been to push the boundaries of what's possible by asking for just a little more loyalty and patience from the community than Canon or Sony, or even Arri would do. It's a trade-off. Slightly frustrating waits in return for incredible tech at stupid low prices.

If you don't like that trade-off, fine. Go buy a C300 mk2 or an Alexa Mini. But don't come posting on here like getting your Raven precisely when someone from Red once said you might is your birthright. That's just not cool. Be cool. Take the bumps like a champ and chill out. Some people have real problems. Like, they decided to buy an Ursa Mini

 

[Tom Dowler]

I hope that doesn't happen. I think it's fantastic that they build all their cameras in California. I commend them for that. Doing the right thing is not always the easiest thing...

+1 on that.

Any company that manufactures in the country where they make their home and pays their fair share of taxes will always get more business from me than one that doesn't.

I buy Apple products but I wish I had better alternatives.

 

[shatek king]

I agree.. And you get less mishaps this way..

 

[M.Halsell]

Nothing much needs to change. Just more accurate delivery projections on future updates. If production needs to bleed over to 2017, that's what should be stated. We are half way the calendar year. Right now, everyone who has placed an order is under the impression, they will get their camera this year.

 

[Derek Carlson]

I think RED should take a "build-a-bear" approach. We can go build our own cameras, they just give us all the pieces.

 

[jordan levy]

I think RED should take a "build-a-bear" approach. We can go build our own cameras, they just give us all the pieces.

i feel that is exactly what they did.

 

[Riley Nightingale]

Red biulding cameras in the US is a huge deal. Those are jobs where workers have rights and protections. When you suggest moving manufacturing to China what you're saying is you value cheap prices over workers getting fair pay and protections. Fuck that. I too wish there were a good US built alternative to Apple for laptops.

Side note: why doesn't red give out camera serial instead of time stamp, and then just say every now and then what number they are currently shipping?

 

[D. O'Bryan]

Red biulding cameras in the US is a huge deal. Those are jobs where workers have rights and protections. When you suggest moving manufacturing to China what you're saying is you value cheap prices over workers getting fair pay and protections. Fuck that. I too wish there were a good US built alternative to Apple for laptops.

+10000 on this.

My trashcan Mac Pro has "Assembled in the USA" engraved on it, and I couldn't be prouder. Still wish it said Made instead of Assembled (a lot of the manufacturing capacity for certain parts simply doesn't exist in the US) but it's a huge step in the right direction. Rumor has it they're slowly trying to push more and more production lines back to the States.

Heck, I was at the hardware store yesterday idly looking at appliances (had a DMV appointment... thus PLENTY of time to kill!) and noticed the Whirlpool and Maytag products all had a prominent "America" sticker on 'em, while everything else was made in china. When I own a house - RED is a more pressing expenditure, no? - those will be the ones I buy.

And in the meantime, I'll be glad every time my DSMC's come out of their cases, knowing some filks in Irvine with good pay and benefits designed, built, and support them. That alone is worth the wait!

 

[Brody_B]

Red biulding cameras in the US is a huge deal. Those are jobs where workers have rights and protections. When you suggest moving manufacturing to China what you're saying is you value cheap prices over workers getting fair pay and protections. Fuck that. I too wish there were a good US built alternative to Apple for laptops.

Side note: why doesn't red give out camera serial instead of time stamp, and then just say every now and then what number they are currently shipping?

Ya agreed, Hell No!!!

 

[Jarred Land]

Even the popular Raven won't be anywhere near the volumes that are needed for proper manufacturing in China.

Actually you would be surprised... We have been courted by many.

But that's just not for us.

We love building cameras at home.. It's the right thing to do.

Apart from the whole creating jobs and giving back to the community stuff.. Being able to stand next to our manufacturing and engineering teams so we can tag team on issues and brainstorm the future together all in the same room is priceless.

That makes us better.. which makes our cameras better... which hopefully at the end of the day helps you do all your jobs better.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

Actually you would be surprised... We have been courted by many.

But that's just not for us.

We love building cameras at home.. It's the right thing to do.

Apart from the whole creating jobs and giving back to the community stuff.. Being able to stand next to our manufacturing and engineering teams so we can tag team on issues and brainstorm the future together all in the same room is priceless.

That makes us better.. which makes our cameras better... which hopefully at the end of the day helps you do all your jobs better.

true story

 

[Rakesh Malik]

Actually you would be surprised... We have been courted by many.

That doesn't surprise me.

Apart from the whole creating jobs and giving back to the community stuff..

But neither does that.

As frustrating as the wait is, it's better than not waiting for a mass-market Chinese knockoff.

There are so few cameras made in the US that it's depressing, IMO. In photography... none. Even the Light camera is going to be manufactured with Chinese partners.

Well, that's not entirely true; there are still a couple of American companies making large format cameras like Canham, but they're sadly rare.

 

[Cameron McKinlay]

I never said take jobs away from americans, though, For the record, I'm Canadian, so I don't share the same "America, Fuck Yea!" attitude. I merely suggested making the manufacturing process more efficient. IE, move the low priced, high volume products to china and keep the flagship products made in USA like they always have.
I guess I am looking at the bigger picture. There are more RED's in the field meaning more RED's that will most likely need servicing. I imagine between servicing the massive number of cameras they now have, 8k VV production which we all know takes a lot of time and resources and prototyping the next greatest thing, to me that sounds like that will keep ALL their current employees busy.
I do have a question though. Are the manufacturing line employees separate from the servicing and repair employees? What is the likelihood of repair turn around times increasing from days to weeks to get something fixed now with the huge influx of new customers?

 

[Elsie N]

I never said take jobs away from americans, though, For the record, I'm Canadian, so I don't share the same "America, Fuck Yea!" attitude. I merely suggested making the manufacturing process more efficient. IE, move the low priced, high volume products to china and keep the flagship products made in USA like they always have.
I guess I am looking at the bigger picture. There are more RED's in the field meaning more RED's that will most likely need servicing. I imagine between servicing the massive number of cameras they now have, 8k VV production which we all know takes a lot of time and resources and prototyping the next greatest thing, to me that sounds like that will keep ALL their current employees busy.
I do have a question though. Are the manufacturing line employees separate from the servicing and repair employees? What is the likelihood of repair turn around times increasing from days to weeks to get something fixed now with the huge influx of new customers?

Cameron, I guess it is tempting (guilty as charged at times) to act as unpaid consultant while on the outside looking in... but IIRC, RED did outsource some production in the beginning. Internally, they came to conclude moving back onshore was best for the brand including manufacturing.

What I'm saying is there may be underlying reasons for the way they do things that aren't evident to outsiders.

As for efficiency... they produced the RAVEN at a price-point that created so much demand they had to raise the price in order to just hold down the demand.

They seem to have a handle on things. '-)

 

[Cameron McKinlay]

Cameron, I guess it is tempting (guilty as charged at times) to act as unpaid consultant while on the outside looking in... but IIRC, RED did outsource some production in the beginning. Internally, they came to conclude moving back onshore was best for the brand including manufacturing.

What I'm saying is there may be underlying reasons for the way they do things that aren't evident to outsiders.

As for efficiency... they produced the RAVEN at a price-point that created so much demand they had to raise the price in order to just hold down the demand.

They seem to have a handle on things. '-)

I apologize if it came across that way, I am in no way trying to tell Jared or anyone at RED how to do their job, just asking questions which I don't think are out of line. More curious than anything.
I appreciate the info Elsie, I was unaware they tried to outsource previously.

 

[Elsie N]

I apologize if it came across that way, I am in no way trying to tell Jared or anyone at RED how to do their job, just asking questions which I don't think are out of line. More curious than anything.
I appreciate the info Elsie, I was unaware they tried to outsource previously.

Like I said... guilty of doing the same thing. It just comes under the heading of "thinking-out-loud" IMO. And I'm sure I'll do the same thing again some time in the future. '-)

 

[M.Halsell]

For all of us arm chair quarterbacks, including myself, may I share an earlier moment in time both related to production and manufacturing in the USA.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?63426-Made-in-the-USA

 

[Elsie N]

For all of us arm chair quarterbacks, including myself, may I share an earlier moment in time both related to production and manufacturing in the USA.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?63426-Made-in-the-USA

Thanks for that... somewhere in the nether regions of my brain I was thinking China was involved in early production. I stand corrected.

EDIT: After reading further in the thread, it turns out the R-1 was initially made in Singapore.

 

[M.Halsell]

Early Production

Early Production

Thanks for that... somewhere in the nether regions of my brain I was thinking China was involved in early production. I stand corrected.

Your memory would not be remiss. Portions of the early RED One production was shared. I don't who or where, but manufacturing wasn't always entirely inhouse.

 

[Elsie N]

Your memory would not be remiss. Portions of the early RED One production was shared. I don't who or where, but manufacturing wasn't always entirely inhouse.

Heh, yeah... reading further in the thread it seems the R-1 was initially made in Singapore.