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Letus Helix vs. DJI Ronin - Pros and Cons???

Terry VerHaar said:
Yes - Helix can be controlled remotely or with joystick in the unit.

Also ideal for work on steadicam arm or from jib.

Really not ideal for heli, though.
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Never fully examined all the options on the website... changes a lot of thinking for me, the 4th axis adding stabilization, seems like a great option.

Ronin is pretty much a cheaper version of the Movi?
 
Jeffery Anderson said:
Never fully examined all the options on the website... changes a lot of thinking for me, the 4th axis adding stabilization, seems like a great option.

Ronin is pretty much a cheaper version of the Movi?
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Ronin is much cheaper than Movi but more than likely much heavier. Don't know for a fact since DJI hasn't released their specs yet. Movi also sells through the Pro Cine market - DJI through their existing Hobby / RC market. Letus, like RED, seems to be primarily a sell direct model. All different flavors so lots of good choices for us buyers to find the right fit of company/product for our work style and support needs.
 
Andy Roberts said:
So I wasn't at NAB and I only know what I've read on RU. But I'm hoping someone in the know can add to this thread what they think the Pros and Cons are of these two gimbals. How are they similar? How are they different? I know some people are talking about buying both. I can barely afford one. I'm leaning toward the Helix but my leaning could easily shift. I just don't have enough info to really make a decision.
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While some great points and "On Paper" comparisons have been offered in this thread in detail, I like to stress that I learned the hard way what it truly means to operate and choose the best Gilbal for your needs, based on the type of camera set up you are most likely to use...

Flash back to last September at Red Studios Hollywood... We used the Movi on my first short... A total disaster... Why? Because the Movi was well capable and a great Gimbal, but only so if set up well within or should I say below it's weight limit, and with short lenses...

But I wanted to shoot with the Leica Summilux we had on set, and wanted the camera set up no to change, so we lost half a day because the Movi had too much difficulties getting Balanced, a nightmare!!

Now, if we had use shorter lenses and a lighter set up coming below it's weight limits, then the Gimbal would have not needed to be LIMITED in both it's Pan and Tilt axis, and would have most likely been set up in WAY less time...

But I do not wish to be DICTATED what I can or can't use as far as lenses goes with my camera at any given shoot... I in fact also want to use a Matte Box as I would in any given shoot...

For this since then, I tested and tried out and assisted in the coming to market of several Gimbals (wan't make any names) one of which I am actually very much looking forward to see coming to market, and an other one to still test as soon as I get to Europe, as I think it has great potential, even so a bit expensive, in the 12k range, not as much as the Movi, but afar cry from the now multitude of Gimbals in the 5 to 8k range.

I will soon test and shoot the Ronin as well, as I think this one it really marks a new standard as far as how a Gimbal should be built and how it should work, in my observations at NAB & Cinegear, the Ronin offers the absolute best bang for your money, and also it's integration, Software, and design are making me believe that very well this might be the Gimbal I have been waiting for!!

The Helix on the other hand is an interesting system design for aGimbal, a cleaver one no doubt, but I did not see IT as my most likely choice... Then again, all can change, but right now I don't see it working for me, but I would not discard it completely, not at all, and I will at some point pout IT to the test as well.


SO as I stated doe were else, buying a simple yet intricate system such as the Gimbal is, without having worked with one and tested the ones of interest, is not a good idea, as again, I have learned that each will have it's pro and cons, and you want to make sure you buy the one that fits your Camera Set Up needs...

What I have done is get DragonM8 set up as intended to work with 90% of the time, and pop IT on to the Gimbals I tested and then make the final decision, Ronin and Helix look both promising, with the Ronin head of the game in more then one way, but I won't know for sure till I test one.
 
What lenses are people planning to use with the coming cornucopia of gimbals? I have built up a nice set of Leica R glass but I really can't see these operating on a gimbal very well as they all have a lot of mass that moves with the focus -- the barrels crank way out. I would think that would mean a re-balance with every focus change, and no option of remote FF on the gimbal. I assume this is part of the reason so much demo footage is shot with stopped down lenses -- not as much need for focus.
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
The Helix on the other hand is an interesting system design for aGimbal, a cleaver one no doubt, but I did not see IT as my most likely choice... Then again, all can change, but right now I don't see it working for me, but I would not discard it completely, not at all, and I will at some point pout IT to the test as well.
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Ketch - as always, your input is helpful and always of great value. I think your caution to choose a gimbal based on one's particular needs is especially important. I am curious as to specifically what it is about the Helix that you think won't currently work for you. If you see deficiencies of some sort, I'd be eager to test these issues when I get my unit. And, hopefully, if possible, they can be addressed by the Letus folks in short order!

Thanks.
 
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Terry VerHaar said:
Ketch - as always, your input is helpful and always of great value. I think your caution to choose a gimbal based on one's particular needs is especially important. I am curious as to specifically what it is about the Helix that you think won't currently work for you. If you see deficiencies of some sort, I'd be eager to test these issues when I get my unit. And, hopefully, if possible, they can be addressed by the Letus folks in short order!

Thanks.
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Not really a matter of the Helix presenting deficiencies per say, but more like the way it is designed to work that I see it not possibly working as good as a more traditional Gimbal design.

I love what they have done with it, but their balancing system, is some what cool yet not ideal for me, also while the design offers a different perspective on the way Gimbals look and operate, I simply don't see it working for me as I would like to.

The balancing itself for me has to become an effortless step, and the Ronin with it's self balancing system, once you have of course set up the camera and locked the initial perimeters of were anyhow the camera set up seats on it, it is impressively fast, and I see this type of systems winning lots of customers over other Gimbals, also the way the system itself allows for initial balancing and calibration lis very important, and Software here will be also extremely important and here again, at this time I favor the Ronin by far.

But please do keep in mind, that as I said, only after testing the unit could I really make a truly informed opinion, as of now, my opinion is only based on how I see the Helix "On Paper" and by observations made in person of the Gimbal it self, and my opinion could change completely once I tested them both.
 
Med D said:
What lenses are people planning to use with the coming cornucopia of gimbals? I have built up a nice set of Leica R glass but I really can't see these operating on a gimbal very well as they all have a lot of mass that moves with the focus -- the barrels crank way out. I would think that would mean a re-balance with every focus change, and no option of remote FF on the gimbal. I assume this is part of the reason so much demo footage is shot with stopped down lenses -- not as much need for focus.
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Hi Med,

I am planning on using the Xenons. I will say that one plus, IF it comes with the production unit, that Ronin had, at Nab, with the prototype, is a reasonable balance tolerance. The operator there, shifted the fore/aft balance off by a few inches and the RONIN seemed to not bat an eye. Now, not a stringent test, but, impressive, nonetheless. Still, just a prototype and I wonder if the weight of the gimbal system plays here. I do hope they do more carbon fiber change outs, in any case.
 
Med D said:
What lenses are people planning to use with the coming cornucopia of gimbals? I have built up a nice set of Leica R glass but I really can't see these operating on a gimbal very well as they all have a lot of mass that moves with the focus -- the barrels crank way out. I would think that would mean a re-balance with every focus change, and no option of remote FF on the gimbal. I assume this is part of the reason so much demo footage is shot with stopped down lenses -- not as much need for focus.
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Same as Fury, I too will be sporting the Xenon's... At list for the very near future that is... :)

What this means for the chosen system is that it will with "ease" be able to also support and pretty fast balance/calibrate with other longer front heavier lenses such as the Summilux C primes, and make a breeze of setting up shorter lenses such as the Summicron C primes, Ultra Primes and any Still/Re-housed Prime lenses out there...

Hell, if you have been doing the Hercules work out you can even put on a Master Prime... :)

Were weight capacity allows of course.

But I fill that with more easy rig like and in fact even way better systems now in the market, the actual weight of the entire set up is no longer as big of an issue were the actual Gimbal is in fact the one to be able to handle the weight of a Professional Cinema packaged Camera/Lens/FocusMotor/WirelessMonitoring/MatteBox/Filters/Power.
 
The only unique gimbal design currently out there is the Helix. All the yoke style gimbals are variations on the Movi theme. The Helix wll take some additional set-up and one time learning since it is best utilized when your camera package is as close to a balanced cylinder as possible. Once you understand that, and optimize your gear, the Helix will offer creative moves that the asymmetrical yoke style gimbals can not.

None of these proposed gimbals have been independently, non-NDA tested yet so we all have no idea what the reality is. That being said . . .

If you want a rugged, heavy duty Movi style gimbal that is dummy proof - the Ronin is a good choice. This is what a rental house will like

If you don't mind tweaking and optimizing a custom rig that will give you a new range of creative moves - the Helix is a good choice
 
Med D said:
What lenses are people planning to use with the coming cornucopia of gimbals? I have built up a nice set of Leica R glass but I really can't see these operating on a gimbal very well as they all have a lot of mass that moves with the focus -- the barrels crank way out. I would think that would mean a re-balance with every focus change, and no option of remote FF on the gimbal. I assume this is part of the reason so much demo footage is shot with stopped down lenses -- not as much need for focus.
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Cine lenses, and many still lenses, have internal focus mechanisms which means they won't change length/balance while focusing. Maybe you want to get your Leicas rehoused? :-)
 
Med D said:
What lenses are people planning to use with the coming cornucopia of gimbals? I have built up a nice set of Leica R glass but I really can't see these operating on a gimbal very well as they all have a lot of mass that moves with the focus -- the barrels crank way out. I would think that would mean a re-balance with every focus change, and no option of remote FF on the gimbal. I assume this is part of the reason so much demo footage is shot with stopped down lenses -- not as much need for focus.
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Actually, I think small cinemodded glass like Leica R and Contax are likely well suited for Gimbal work. My friend Joe Victorine is shooting Epic + MoVi all over the world, and shoots all Leica R with Motion Mount. Says the combo is fantastic, and his clients clearly love it...his career is taking off.

Chris McKechnie (fellow RU) rocks Epic + MoVI + Contax all the time, and has been getting SUPERB results! His Contax primes are pretty much EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE AND WEIGHT (18 f4, 28 2.8, 35 2.8, 50 1.4, 85 2.8), and he's loved how well they balance on his system!
 
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Mark L. Pederson said:
Is the HELIX shipping with their own custom software - or is it only running on BaseCam software and firmware??
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Mark - as it stands, the Helix is shipping with the standard firmware. Buried somewhere deep in the Helix thread, it was stated that Letus has two software engineers working on some additional stuff; whatever that means.

hienle said:
We are going with the stock firmware so that you all can have the latest and greatest firmware as it become available. However, we have 2 software engineers working on the PC software and smartphone software so we can simplify the process for all of you.
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Nick Morrison said:
In fact many of the Contax "Standard Speeds" (18 f4, 28 2.8, 35 2.8, 50 1.4, 85 2.8) are all pretty much EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE AND WEIGHT, so he's loved how well they balance on his system.
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I guess that is kind of my point, the non-rehoused Leicas are not all the same size and weight, and it gets worse when you throw in focus as a variable. I would guess that cine rehousing equalizes the weight partly just by overwhelming the weight of the glass with the weight of the housing. I mean the glass needs to move in either case. Maybe these gimbals are not as finicky as I would have expected -- that would be great.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Mark - as it stands, the Helix is shipping with the standard firmware. Buried somewhere deep in the Helix thread, it was stated that Letus has two software engineers working on some additional stuff; whatever that means.
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Okay - that means you will have to have an android phone or tablet to use it and run this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsed_BmyZ2M
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Okay - that means you will have to have an android phone or tablet to use it and run this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsed_BmyZ2M
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Yes - if you want to run that particular app, you would need Android. My understanding is that, currently, there is no iOS version.

EDIT: That said, as I indicated above (post #53), Letus is working on a "smart phone" app which I am hoping will be iOS.
 
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Med D said:
I guess that is kind of my point, the non-rehoused Leicas are not all the same size and weight, and it gets worse when you throw in focus as a variable. I would guess that cine rehousing equalizes the weight partly just by overwhelming the weight of the glass with the weight of the housing. I mean the glass needs to move in either case. Maybe these gimbals are not as finicky as I would have expected -- that would be great.
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I have a deposit down on a Helix, and by all accounts its not that finickey. That said, as a modded Contax glass owner, Ive lucked out..as many indeed are very similar size and weight (in particular amongst the "Standard Primes").

Best
 
I think Zeb hit the nail on the head when he said the current Ronin looks more suited for a Canon 1D C/ GH4...where as the Helix is good to go for most of the big boys ;)

Oh yeah....and the Helix weighs less, can take longer/ bigger lenses, and the form factor is superb and doesn't freak out as easy as the other guys. And once you get it balanced the first time you don't really have to re-balance again when switching lenses, etc. And the big cherry on top for me is that you can dutch the damn thing!!! ;)

And it is made in America.
 
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