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Letus Helix vs. DJI Ronin - Pros and Cons???

Andy Roberts

Andy Roberts

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So I wasn't at NAB and I only know what I've read on RU. But I'm hoping someone in the know can add to this thread what they think the Pros and Cons are of these two gimbals. How are they similar? How are they different? I know some people are talking about buying both. I can barely afford one. I'm leaning toward the Helix but my leaning could easily shift. I just don't have enough info to really make a decision.
 
Aw, oh. Cage fight. LOL

This list will be long, I think so I'll wade in to the shallow end. I got interested in Letus because of the modular approach. You can use it with 1,2,3 or 4 axes in play. Was also interest in the fact that it was built for handheld (not adapted from helicopter gimbal) and that the simple one-axis mode would be great on a steadicam. I also liked the fact that it was less bulky in back allowing the operator to hold it closer to his/her body. It seems simple to balance and keep balanced. And it seems lightweight. The company seems humble, cool, and responsive.

Just some subjective thoughts.

Oh, and I think the Letus will be slight lower priced while offering equal quality - IMO.

It will be interesting to see what gets posted here as both look like very fine products.
 
Thanks Terry. I will try to summarize what people say and list them as bullet points in the OP. Yeah, no need for a cage fight like with the RED vs Arri, Mac vs. PC, Canon vs. Nikon, Ford vs. Chevy, creamy vs. chunky debates. Two good products with possibly slightly different applications.... the users win either way. Comparisons just help me see side by side the features I need.
 
Someone do a spreadsheet - include this criteria:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...IN-Group-Buy&p=1354470&viewfull=1#post1354470

Would be interesting to do a spreadsheet analysis of all four. Metrics (not in priority order):
1. Company market / actual field experience with DSLR+ class gimbals measured in years
2. Weight limit and performance with RED Epic class payload
3. Company strength measured in capitalization, engineering and support workforce
4. Price
5. Availability
6. Distribution channel / Support model / Training
7. Warranty and Technical support
8. Ease of use / speed on set
9. Reliability, durability and tolerance of interference from power cables, moron operators etc
10. Related and integrated peripheral products such as video downlink
11. Gimbal weight
12. Battery run-time
13. Ergonomics / cool features
14. Ease of modification and customization
15. 3rd party support
16. You get the drift . . .
 
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I guess Im one of the guys, together with Zeb, that are thinking of buying both.

My thoughts:

- Ronin, its direct peers are Movi & BeSteady4(I havent looked into the other "octocopter"-versions). Advantages; 1) Auto calibration through Ios-app(say waat!?) 2) DJI have a solution to quickly attach/release the gimbal from various attachements(octocopter etc etc) 3) DJI is a well-known, big company. With that comes experience in support, firmware updates, standardized parts etc etc.

The Ronin gimbal will be used on sets where we during a day shoot both in air and land( for instance when we do stuff for Red Bull). A time saver deluxe to just in seconds attach an already calibrated gimbal to a octocopter and start shooting while the light is still somewhat the same as the scene before.

Helix, it has no peers. Helix is built to be used on steadicam or comfortably handheld. Advantages; 1) Its modular system. I can slap it on my steadiseg(1 axis or 4 axis), put on the 3rd axis and do long follow scenes through windos and what not. 2) Its design. You can hold the Helix much closer to yourself than any other system out there today. It gives you that eye level height you want without paying Arnold for gym hours. 3) Quick calibration. You set the center, after that its just back and forth when you change lenses. I have a gig shooting tigers in the jungle of Myanmar. First of all, this system is small enough to bring with me, secondly, I can sit on an elephant back and change lenses in a flash. That you cant do with the design of the other gimbals.

The Helix will be used in various situations where we need a small footprint from our gear and where we handhold for longer periods of time.


That's just my take on the two systems.
Hope that helped you a little bit. :)
 
A couple things to note about Letus: they have indicated that there will be a smart phone control app although there have been no details. Also, there is the capability for a second operators to use remote control for various functions. I, for one, would love to hear more about this.
 
John, Thanks for that comparison... I don't do any aerial work but I can see how the Ronin would be helpful if you were doing both aerial and handheld. Your description of the Helix continues to help me lean towards the Helix...
 
john zerihoun said:
secondly, I can sit on an elephant back and change lenses in a flash. That you cant do with the design of the other gimbals.
Click to expand...

Hahahaha, its true

I should have my Helix very soon, can't wait to test
 
Here's my list:

Ronin

Pros

Price Point - basic kit approaches $4k, includes extra battery and cut case, no one is approaching it
Quality of Build looks fantastic
180 degree mode looks very stable and has advantages over earlier gimbals which limit shooting at height
DJI is a heli company and will undoubtedly factor that into its design, it will be very heli friendly and integrated to this application
Firmware upgradeable
Looks big and impressive - there are definitely tone deaf producers out there who will pay up for "bigger is better" - if it looks small, integrated, and inconsequential, they will hold tighter to the cash. sad but true....
Easy to balance from all reports
Early demo footage looks amazing

Cons -

The group buy seemed, for a moment there, to run off the skids due to poor communication - although Willis seems to be trying hard to shift that perception and bring a more open process to light.
You are dealing with resellers, not the company, for customer support and for communication and feedback regarding a 1st-gen technology

The big DJI pro (to me) is the price point. Once the dust settles, it looks like it may be a fairly substantial discount to the Helix, on a percentage basis. If you are on a budget, this is definitely a big consideration.

If you read through the GB thread, you'll hear some whinge-ing about price, but ignore it. Everyone was hope for under $5K and now, through AMP, the GB is approaching $4K with a case. Way better than expected. So it mystifies me why the complaining is happening....


Helix

Pros
Total re-design on the gimbal system, from the ground up.
Modular - you buy the axes that you need. Can add new axis as needed. Scales up or down.
Weight - the redesign resulted in tremendous weight design reductions
90 degree angle operation - this move allows you to run the rig as if it had a top handle, without the need for the 4th axis (top handle). Run longer, with less weight and fatigue. Go from low mode to high mode in a single move.
Integrated battery cage - run the rig and the camera from the same battery
Easy to balance because its balancing system is designed alonged the first axis of your camera.
Held close to body rather than out in front of your body means you can operate longer and more efficiently without fatigue
Price point - while more expensive than the Ronin GB but still at the much-desired $5K mark
Doesn't require a dedicated stand while resting - the unit can be set directly on the ground or any smooth surface
Direct communication with the inventor/manufacturer - the entire redesign was built on user feedback enhancements
Dedicated forum to get your questions answered or troubleshoot problems
Early Production units are shipping - oddly this also worries me but only slightly. seems too good to be true for a complex redesign. I find myself waiting for the other shoe to drop, to a small degree because I've never ever ever seen such a fast time-to-market on a complex electronic product without the product being buggy. But it's me, not you, Letus! I'm still a buyer. And a believer....
Swift integration of user feedback - Letus has been simply outstanding in this regard.


Cons

I'm not sure I have found any yet! But in the interests of fairness, price may be the big difference, possibly as much as 20% - but again, we have no final hard figures to compare yet.
No demo footage is available to the public - should change soon, once these are in new owner's hands.
Untested technology - we know that the Ronin should simply work, because it is so close in design to Movi that its type has been battle-tested. Ronin follows the "better-than-Movi" model of build and design. Helix is so new that we can't make similar assumptions until units get in the field. We have only seen minimal footage of the first production model, no footage of operating from the 4th axis, etc.

Hope this list helps. I'm sure it will be out of date fast.


I personally jumped from the Ronin to the Letus for 4 reasons: integrated battery, the considerable loss of weight by being able to run 3 axis (most of my applications), ability to set it down/single operator, ability to hold it close to body with less fatigue

But I have been more than happy with their desire to build a community of users and discuss the product openly. Their commitment to the product and to their users is tremendous. This bodes well for our future relationship.
 
Good analysis but I am not sure about the price thing. The three axis Helix is priced at $3995 retail. It's true you add about $900 for the 4th axis but, to me that seems to add a whole dimension that goers beyond what others are offering. IIRC, the Ronin has been priced at $4495.

I haven't looked closely at the different packages and that could make the pricing difference for the group buy. Yes, with the Helix, you have to add a little bit for the blue tooth option, the joystick option and the RC receiver but those are relatively small additions. Are those things standard with Ronin? All in all, I am not sure I see pricing as a major difference.

And, it should be noted the firmware on the Letus is also upgradeable and I believe they are considering the development of a more custom approach to software with some added capabilities, but that is yet to be seen.
 
You forgot one pro for the helix....you can use it to do rotation around the optical center...this can now replace the need of an expensive Tango head to do cool Dutch angles and stuff...
A few of us including Terry have already ordered our Helix and should be getting it soon... So I am sure there will be plenty of information posted about the Helix ;)
 
Maz Mawlawi said:
You forgot one pro for the helix....you can use it to do rotation around the optical center...this can now replace the need of an expensive Tango head to do cool Dutch angles and stuff...
A few of us including Terry have already ordered our Helix and should be getting it soon... So I am sure there will be plenty of information posted about the Helix ;)
Click to expand...

Yep. I have gone from a sideline observer to someone with skin in the game. I plan on posting some footage when I get a chance to work with the Helix.
 
Ronin Pro:
Giant Chinese company with 1500 employees

Ronin Con:
Giant Chinese company with 1500 employees

Helix Pro:
Small Portland OR based company with very few employees

Helix Con:
Small Portland OR based company with very few employees

Pick what's important to you:
A huge company that can mass produce a solid, universal product at a Walmart price point and have global distribution and support
A small company that can listen and implement user input but might have to be a bit more expensive and be limited in retailer support

Either way we are guessing and projecting our hopes of what each might be since there has been no independent testing and reviews. Those who do not need a gimbal immediately will be best served to wait and watch for a month or so.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Good analysis but I am not sure about the price thing. The three axis Helix is priced at $3995 retail. It's true you add about $900 for the 4th axis but, to me that seems to add a whole dimension that goers beyond what others are offering. IIRC, the Ronin has been priced at $4495.

I haven't looked closely at the different packages and that could make the pricing difference for the group buy. Yes, with the Helix, you have to add a little bit for the blue tooth option, the joystick option and the RC receiver but those are relatively small additions. Are those things standard with Ronin? All in all, I am not sure I see pricing as a major difference.

And, it should be noted the firmware on the Letus is also upgradeable and I believe they are considering the development of a more custom approach to software with some added capabilities, but that is yet to be seen.
Click to expand...

No, I think my price analysis is fairly accurate, with the caveat that we don't have all prices for all accessories. You can't do certain things without the 4th axis - like undersling to jib, for instance. So to make fair comparisons, that has to be included, which puts the price closer to $5K than $4K. The beauty of modularity is that you can add what you can afford, whenever you can afford it - but we are comparing Group Buy pricing - not what comes later. But we can't compare less to more and call it a fair comparison....

(I also think it is important to be deliberately vague about pricing, Terry, because we are under an NDA and I don't think it is right to talk about final pricing for the Helix until that info is in the public domain.... I know they are shipping, but it is still their prerogative to print pricing. I just want to be careful about this.)

The Ronin GB has a 10% discount, which you aren't accounting for in your numbers, so the GB price is $4099 - the price you're quoting is MSRP. AMP is also throwing in an extra battery. They are also including a cut case, which is a $300 - $400 value, an add-on for Letus. I think pointing out a $1K difference between the 2 units (for the Group Buy only!) is fair. It's substantial.

This doesn't take anything away from what Letus has done, in terms of re-inventing the gimbal concept. We are paying for the additional research and design which has gone into a complete re-think, whereas Ronin is borrowing and enhancing. Letus is offering a very fair price. Ronin is offering a better price.

I'm a buyer of Letus. I am trying to be very objective in my analysis, however. And I think, on a percentage basis, the price difference is an important consideration. It's not important to MY purchase decision because weight and the limits of my personal mobility mean more than price to me. But I don't think it's fair to pretend their price points are comparable. With accessories (and 4th axis, which is the only really fair comp), some of which are not just add-ons but essentials - like batteries - the Helix is likely to top $5K, even though the basic unit may be priced under $5K. The GB Ronin is not, will likely stay under $5K.

For some people, having a "5" or "4" at the front of the pricetag will matter.

I'm not here to cheerlead Letus. They will sell on their merits, which are incredibly strong.

And Maz, thanks for the add. My list wasn't intended to be definitive, just a starting point for people trying to figure out the differences without wading through pages and pages of text....
 
Meryem - Pricing is on their public web site. :smiley:

And, with the changes that have been made recently, it may be possible to shoot from Jib without 4th axis.

I do think the prices are "comparable" but that is a subjective term for sure. And while I would quibble with your $1K delta, they are most definitely not the "same."
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Meryem - Pricing is on their public web site. :smiley:

And, with the changes that have been made recently, it may be possible to shoot from Jib without 4th axis.

I do think the prices are "comparable" but that is a subjective term for sure. And while I would quibble with your $1K delta, they are most definitely not the "same."
Click to expand...

Good to know about the prices. Now we can speak freely.

I'm curious about these changes that would allow us to operate underslung on a jib (or heli, etc.) without a top handle... if I missed something, I'd sure like to know about it. if you're referring to 90 degree mode, that can be used in some circumstances, but I would not use it for all....

but seriously, if we can be obvious about pricing.

Ronin GB - base unit is $4099 and includes

1 x Ronin Gimbal
1 x Ronin Intelligent Battery
1 x Ronin Battery Charger
1 x Dual mini 15mm accessory rods
1 x Lens support base
1 x Remote Operator Controller 2.4ghz
1 x Camera Dovetail Plate
1 x Collapsable tuning / balancing stand (able to take top part off to mount on a baby pin)
2 x Top Bar Accessory Mounts
2 x 1/4" Camera Screws
2 x 3/8" Camera Screws
1 x Allen Wrench Set
1 x Accessories Pouch
1 x Custom Molded Pelican-Style Carrying Case with hard foam
1 x Power Breakout Box


Letus GB - base unit is $4874 and includes

4 axis unit

add 1 battery $124
add 1 charger $59
add joystick $124
add carry case $399

so to have matching packages, we are looking at $5580. with the $400 credit for buying the 4th axis, call it $5180

if you back out $899 for the 4th axis, it's $4681 versus $4099.

anyway, I'm not trying to sell or cheerlead anything. Just trying to help out and getting into a back n forth over pricing makes me sound like I'm selling Ronin, which is nuts, because I'm buying a Letus. So I'll just throw those numbers out there and let them speak for themselves and be done with the pricing discussion....hard numbers ought to do the trick as a starting point.

I'm actually quite excited about what Letus is doing with their Juice Box. I may buy a separate cage to velcro to my EPIC back and see if it can double as a larger capacity Redvolt alternative. could be cool....
 
I will add that, if I ever invent something, I hope to have Terry VerHaar as my first customer.

I don't know anyone with more brand loyalty. heh... :001_cool:
 
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