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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

lenses for red raven

Jacek Zakowicz said:
Optimos have type of PL mount that works with PL->EF adapters. adapter is the most practical route to mount them on EF cameras with these lenses.
It's not about the rear glass clearance with Optimos. The Angie DP lenses however may have an issue with rear glass clearance.
It's easy enough for Red to disclose the distance from the Raven mount flange to the OLFP. Hopefully they get around to it soon so the Raven customers can start lining up the glass for their cameras...
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ok, thanks, yeah it looks like he posted a picture of a optimo DP lens with that new i/o, i was assuming that meant they will be able to clear, if so, then maybe a ceico7 adapter might be ok?
 
Nick Morrison said:
Yes, being aware of larger sensor's is important. That seems to be where the market is going.

But suggesting that the s35 will be consigned to a "flea market" or the past also seems far fetched. Super 35 remains, by all accounts, the best ratio of sensor size to optical performance. Meaning, you're far more likely to get a MASTER PRIME SET that covers 12mm to 150mm all at a T1.3 (ie often a F1.2!!!) than you ever will on a larger sensor (say VistaVision)...it's just PHYSICS.

Notice how long and hard it's taken ZEISS to come out with their WIDE ANGLE OTUS, which by all accounts is a 24/28mm? At a T1.4?

Master Primes go to a 12mm. At a T1.3

Also - there's a SYNTANX to Super 35 that's important, and should be valued:

When Roger Deakins says he loves to shoot on a 28mm, 32mm, and a 65mm...he's referring to MASTER PRIMES and how they look on SUPER 35.

When Janusz Kaminski says Spielperg "sees the world through a 21mm", he's refering to a 21mm MASTER PRIME on SUPER 35.

When Michael Haneke says he shoots EVERY MOVIE on a 32mm, he means a 32mm Cooke on SUPER 35.

When people say Terry Gilliam and Terrence Malick love shooting "wide angle", they mean btw 14mm-18mm on SUPER 35.

SUPER 35 has been the language of the majority of all movies shot over the past 30 years.

I highly suggest we honor and respect it, as most of the best filmmakers in the world have made it their home.
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AMEN!
 
Nick Morrison said:
Yes, being aware of larger sensor's is important. That seems to be where the market is going.

But suggesting that the s35 will be consigned to a "flea market" or the past also seems far fetched. Super 35 remains, by all accounts, the best ratio of sensor size to optical performance. Meaning, you're far more likely to get a MASTER PRIME SET that covers 12mm to 150mm all at a T1.3 (ie often a F1.2!!!) than you ever will on a larger sensor (say VistaVision)...it's just PHYSICS.

Notice how long and hard it's taken ZEISS to come out with their WIDE ANGLE OTUS, which by all accounts is a 24/28mm? At a T1.4?

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Sigma just announced 20mm 1.4 (Full frame) and therefore, I stopped financing to get otus sets (28mm, 55mm, 85mm) and I will cinemod all my sigma art primes (20mm, 24mm, 35mm, and 50mm) instead for that short focal length in the super speed.

It means, they made 13.5mm 0.95 lens on Super 35mm lens - In speed booster, you will get an extra stop on super 35mm.

In terms of image quality, sigma art lens is better than most other lens manufactual now - not as pleasant look as Ziess, but when you count only CA/sharpness only, sigma is doing great job.

i understood that master prime is 60 times more expensive than Sigma art prime lens, I understood that S35lens is in general faster than FF LENS.

But, when you compare FF35 lens with Hasselblad's 6x6 and mamiya 645, FF35 lens seem faster too. In fact, s16 lens or C mount zoom lenses are extremely fast as well.

Think of comparing between super 16 lens and super 35mm lens, which do you think is better? Yes super 35mm should be better, and it will be same as FF35 and super 35's comparison as well - It's just my opinion

P.S: But, Damn master prime sets, if I had one, I don't even compare all these bull shit, I would rather find a way to hook it up on vista version sensor somehow.
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Minu Park said:
In terms of image quality, sigma art lens is better than most other lens manufactual now - not as pleasant look as Ziess, but when you count only CA/sharpness only, sigma is doing great job.
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From what I have seen, Sigma's Art lenses are better in every way than Nikon's or Canon's equivalents. But, there is a reason why the Zeiss Otus lenses cost so much. They are superior to the Sigma Art lenses and it's quite obvious.

Sigmas are probably the best value but Zeisses perform better. That does not mean that you MUST buy the Zeiss. But a fact is a fact. :-)
 
I think that Zeiss Otus line will be the new cinema Zeiss CP.3.
Is that possible?
What would be the T number if photo Otus line is f1.4?
 
my advice for anyone thinking about new lenses for their new camera is to use what you have laying around to test the camera, then rent a few sets to see what you like. NAB 2016 will bring a whole new world of ideas, everyone's gonna have new treats for the raven this spring.. its only like a month after the camera ships.. till then throw on any old thing and practice with the camera, especially if this is your first RED! =)
 
Matthew Quinn said:
my advice for anyone thinking about new lenses for their new camera is to use what you have laying around to test the camera, then rent a few sets to see what you like. NAB 2016 will bring a whole new world of ideas, everyone's gonna have new treats for the raven this spring.. its only like a month after the camera ships.. till then throw on any old thing and practice with the camera, especially if this is your first RED! =)
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This actually is very very good idea.
You're right. NAB is just one month after the Raven.
Zeiss and Canon could release somtehing very interesting for the Raven.
Good point, Matthew.
 
everything gets cheaper around NAB, and new products are announced, also lots of vendors give out 10-15% show discounts..i have a feeling there will be a second round of weapon incentives as well
 
You make some excellent points. I want to further underscore that this is a DSMC camera... Stills AND motion. With the fixed EF mount this camera has serious leanings toward still photography that previous DSMC's did not. This camera deliberately blurs the line between the S and the C further so it is only natural that this kind of discussion of crop factor is going to happen.

There are going to be a whole lot of (experienced) still 'togs who are very familiar with Canon still glass putting that glass on this thing and the "FF" crop factor is very useful to them initially. Yes it shows their lack of experience with S35 but it is dismissive, divisive and rude to smack them upside the head with that. This is a unifying piece of kit and we might all do well to embrace that attitude and each other.

Remember also that in the still photography world the top end shooters tend to be the ones shooting "full frame" and above. Those are the ones you will be having this discussion with most, while potentially less experienced photographers who are used to cropped sensors will assimilate more easily. With that in mind I suggest that condescending on this point is not just insulting to them but it makes you look ignorant and perhaps hypocritical. I don't direct that point at anyone here, it is just a thought to consider.

Once people get more familiar with their Raven I believe that crop factor references will become unnecessary and they will likely stop using it when discussing Raven just as 1D users don't use the term much when talking amongst themselves but they use it when talking with Rebel shooters.

Red is trying to bring in more still photographers. This began with the DSMC form factor and continues in earnest with Raven. If you want to see them succeed (and I think all of their customers want that) then I respectfully suggest that this kind of attitude is counterproductive.

The younger shooters who will be coming up that have always shot video will not identify with this but most of us share common roots in still photography. It is where most of us began. Likewise I would think that most welcome DSMC for that reason; we are all photographers. This is why the whole "It's S35 just get used to it (idiot)." thing appears like petty posturing. My guess is that explains the resistance (if there is any) to S35 during these discussions. It is just the push back that happens when people are offended. It will pass.

Mike Garrick said:
I guess for a lot newcomers this may seem strange , what worked in stills land isn't referrenced in motion picture land.

Hence I have never heard a Alexa being explained as having 1.5 crop .

Just like stills, motion picture has there own standards & terms 16, s16, s35, 3 perf , ana, IMAX, 65mm, etc, etc.

Learn these standards , you will need them because without an understanding of them your ability to progress & understand this industry will be limited by your own vocabulary or lack of it.

The day you stop learning in this profession is the day your dead.

PS I guess the confusion is creeping in because we are talking largely still lenses on a motion picture body.
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Raven isn't going to be that great for stills in my opinion. This is coming from an epic dragon owner.
 
Time could prove you correct but I'm not sure how you can form an opinion on a piece of gear that I presume you have not used. Are you familiar with the software it is running? Stills features have been getting a great boost recently.

I expect with a fixed EF lens mount that Raven is going to have stills functionality in spades, but that is just a guess on my part that seems reasonable. You disagree?

This is the wild speculation of an imaginative mind, but I have been hoping for a software technology like HDRX that combines partial flash frames to automatically stitch them into a single still frame with a consistent exposure. I am hoping and dreaming that something like this could come from Red soon... Maybe with Raven.

I have not seen enough in Raven yet that would cause me to move from my Scarlet but if it delivers on the DSMC promise as I hope, that could change.


sorry, OT.

Jake Wilganowski said:
Raven isn't going to be that great for stills in my opinion. This is coming from an epic dragon owner.
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There is something about a 35mm or a 50mm lens on a FF (negative) that works well enough to have created thousands of incredible photos that made history in the visual art. I am not going into the technical aspects of lenses and DoF, neither touching MediumFormat, nor scientific explanation of sensors.

Motion at the end is a series of still images. We still use FPS to identify how many still images we take every second.

Learning goes both ways. Maybe studying still photography and full frame references will help you understand how an image can have such a long term impact. Then you can use it on your cinematography. It might be more useful than listing cinema formats....

My 2 cents, personal opinion. I am slightly uncomfortable with the usage of lenses that a sensor with such a crop factor would bring to my work.


Mike Garrick said:
I guess for a lot newcomers this may seem strange , what worked in stills land isn't referrenced in motion picture land.

Hence I have never heard a Alexa being explained as having 1.5 crop .

Just like stills, motion picture has there own standards & terms 16, s16, s35, 3 perf , ana, IMAX, 65mm, etc, etc.

Learn these standards , you will need them because without an understanding of them your ability to progress & understand this industry will be limited by your own vocabulary or lack of it.

The day you stop learning in this profession is the day your dead.

PS I guess the confusion is creeping in because we are talking largely still lenses on a motion picture body.
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sorry for posting this question in the "announcing raven" thread, thought it would be seen there, but this might be a better place to post the question.

i was looking very hard into lensing and making the right choice for the raven, i guess this question only goes out to jarred or brent, unless someone else has been playing with a raven, or got answers to this already.

does it make a lot of sense to go with only EF mounts that have digital communication to the camera?
is there a big advantage to this? i notced while shooting on cooke anamorphic lenses the other week, though it was on an alexa, that all the lens, fstop, focus distance and even depth of field was being overlaid on the monitor. this helped me a lot when managing a few cameras and having operaters, i can double check fstop compensations quickly, as well as showing the director, ok, this shot, you can see he only have 4 inches depth of field, haha… also for the focus pullers, i can really see why they want to be wireless and be at the monitor now…
is this something to expect to be overlaid on the video output stream with a ef digital communicating mount on a raven?
if so that will direct my thoughts on lensing in a very different way.
because i was looking at picking up a used zeiss LWZ or a optimo DP and having it converted, which both are still a pretty penny.
please please answer this question anyone that can!
thanks in advance.
 
I would assume that it is the same as with my scarlet. My contax zeiss lenses do not say focus distance etc, sigma 18-35 does, I don't see how it would be any different on raven. Also, there is the advantage of using foolcontrol with communicating lenses, pretty big deal.
 
Brandon Kelly said:
I would assume that it is the same as with my scarlet. My contax zeiss lenses do not say focus distance etc, sigma 18-35 does, I don't see how it would be any different on raven. Also, there is the advantage of using foolcontrol with communicating lenses, pretty big deal.
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Thank you Brandon! that answers that, i was thinking even going for a rehoused sigma, but they take out all the electronics, so that's no good.
i have a set of contax primes too, but i know with the raven im going to want to be a little more portable and quick with some light weight zooms.
ive also heard that the sigma 18-35mm might even be parafocal, can you confirm this?
thanks again!
 
Without the option to change lens mounts, I decided to cancel my order for now. I NEED PL Mount, Its non negotiable when I am trying to match my Epics and Dragons with UltraPrimes, there is NOTHING out there that can even get me close. POSSIBLY the OTUS line but at 5K a lens and only 3 focal lengths at this time: NAH.
 
Chad Bonanno said:
Without the option to change lens mounts, I decided to cancel my order for now. I NEED PL Mount, Its non negotiable when I am trying to match my Epics and Dragons with UltraPrimes, there is NOTHING out there that can even get me close. POSSIBLY the OTUS line but at 5K a lens and only 3 focal lengths at this time: NAH.
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you dont think angeniuex zooms and ultra primes can match? optimos can be rented with ef mounts all the time. ive dont countless jobs with those two together and everything matches fine. For actual jobs ill be renting optimos, but im mainly looking to see a few affordable lenses for personal or lower budget fun. now if you were talking about matching cookes or something id understand...
 
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