lenses for red raven

[Karel Šimůnek]

If you want that focal length as prime, then get the Zeiss and don't bother with Rokinon. Revised Xeen version with improved coatings or not, the Zeiss is in a different league and simply one of the best performing UWAs. This and the 135mm can be considered as predecessors for their Otus-Line.

Edit: And don't forget, Zeiss covers FF (maybe even VV-8k) while Rokinon's 16mm-lens is for APS-C.

OK. Thanks.
And do you thing Zeiss will release more lenses from their Super Speed line?
EDIT
And what do you think about Zeiss CP2 15mm T2.9 vs Canon CN-E 24mm T1.5?

 

[Maik Müller]

OK. Thanks.
And do you thing Zeiss will release more lenses from their Super Speed line?

Well the superspeed CP.2s are not THAT convincing if you ask me. They use the same old design, just with a different aperture. Their performance wide open isn't great. I'm not sure what Zeiss will do with the CP.2-line next. I wouldn't bet on additional Superspeeds.

But i wouldn't be that surprised if Zeiss introduces a new CP.3-set or some updated CP.2-lenses next year. They have better optics now, Zeiss Otus on one hand and those new designed Zeiss Milvus on the other hand. Some of those optics will get a cinema-housing sooner or later.

And thats the catch, i find it difficult to buy into a set of CP.2s right now, with better performing Zeiss glass in the (cinemodded) stills-world available. Otus 55 and 85 beat the CP2-superspeeds easily...

And what do you think about Zeiss CP2 15mm T2.9 vs Canon CN-E 24mm T1.5?

That's not a comparison i would make, they are totally different lenses for different looks and shots.

A 24mm is suitable for more normal shots and use-cases. It doesn't have those extreme wide-angle distortions. And the 24mm has a wider aperture too and you can have some bookeh if desired. If i had to decide between 15mm or 24mm i would start with a 24mm. But which one is another question.

My personal next superduper-wide-angle lens for shooting with my Scarlet and Raven will be the next Otus. I actually hope the rumours are true and it's going to be a 28/1.4. Yep, it's a still-lens...

On my Scarlet/MX in 4k i rarely used my SIGMA 18-35/1.8 on the wide end, i mostly shot it at something between 24 and 35mm. And btw, that SIGMA is the one lens i would buy to start with RAVEN. No brainer, it beats lots of primes too. My Canon 24/1.4II didn't see much usage once i had that SIGMA.

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

Well the superspeed CP.2s are not THAT convincing if you ask me. They use the same old design, just with a different aperture. Their performance wide open isn't great. I'm not sure what Zeiss will do with the CP.2-line next. I wouldn't bet on additional Superspeeds.

But i wouldn't be that surprised if Zeiss introduces a new CP.3-set or some updated CP.2-lenses next year. They have better optics now, Zeiss Otus on one hand and those new designed Zeiss Milvus on the other hand. Some of those optics will get a cinema-housing sooner or later.

And thats the catch, i find it difficult to buy into a set of CP.2s right now, with better performing Zeiss glass in the (cinemodded) stills-world available. Otus 55 and 85 beat the CP2-superspeeds easily...


That's not a comparison i would make, they are totally different lenses for different looks and shots.

A 24mm is suitable for more normal shots and use-cases. It doesn't have those extreme wide-angle distortions. And the 24mm has a wider aperture too and you can have some bookeh if desired. If i had to decide between 15mm or 24mm i would start with a 24mm. But which one is another question.

My personal next superduper-wide-angle lens for shooting with my Scarlet and Raven will be the next Otus. I actually hope the rumours are true and it's going to be a 28/1.4. Yep, it's a still-lens...

On my Scarlet/MX in 4k i rarely used my SIGMA 18-35/1.8 on the wide end, i mostly shot it at something between 24 and 35mm. And btw, that SIGMA is the one lens i would buy to start with RAVEN. No brainer, it beats lots of primes too. My Canon 24/1.4II didn't see much usage once i had that SIGMA.

Oh thank you for your very exhaustive answer. Very nice!
So if prime lens It's Zeiss CP.2 25mm T2.1 or wait for the new cinema primes from Zeiss.
Or buy GL Optics Super Speed Zoom 18-35mm. Perfect for Raven but not a Full Frame.

 

[Jon Dishler]

What about Canon EF Prime cinema lenses on sale for 24k for 6 lens set? I pre-ordered a Raven, but not too familiar with Canon lenses. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1023370-REG/canon_ef_cinema_prime_lens.html/prm/alsVwDtl

 

[Jim_Ritscher]

So did anyone ever answer the original question? LOL
Assume goal is wide, full, medium, close-up, etc.
Some cinematographers limit f stop to slowest lens so no (or minimal) relight on lens swap.

To generalize, what would be ideal set of Primes for Raven? (in Lens focal length ignore crop factors; should be roughly same as for ScarletX since sensor size is with a few %)
First by focal length choices and then specific instances?
What I am using is:
14mm T3
35mm T1.5
50mm T1.5
85mm T1.5
135mm T2

All Rokinon cine (budget oriented).
Have not heard great things about Rokinon 24 else would have that also
Also have wide zoom Canon 16-35 L series f2.8 - some CA (correctable) compared to Rokinon

>>Have not heard great things about Rokinon 24 else would have that also.
The 24 is a fine lens, it's just a little soft when wide open. Note that B&H sells a bundle of these. Get the DS version.

 

[Detlev Eller]

...

RESUME: Will be better if RED produces a PL mount, can be fixed to fit in the RED line, but a PL

fun, thought RED produces plenty of cameras with PL mounts ... ;-))

 

[Detlev Eller]

would be great to see electronic aperture support coming sooner than later for the Sigma Art 24-35 2.0 .... )

 

[Tony Hernandez]

fun, thought RED produces plenty of cameras with PL mounts ... ;-))

I mean for Raven, like "Raven PL"

 

[Matthew Quinn]

What about Canon EF Prime cinema lenses on sale for 24k for 6 lens set? I pre-ordered a Raven, but not too familiar with Canon lenses. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1023370-REG/canon_ef_cinema_prime_lens.html/prm/alsVwDtl

i use these all the time Jon, they are great

there is someone on reduser right now selling a 3 lens set for 9500$... great deal...

 

[James Falco]

I guess for a lot newcomers this may seem strange , what worked in stills land isn't referrenced in motion picture land.

Hence I have never heard a Alexa being explained as having 1.5 crop .

Just like stills, motion picture has there own standards & terms 16, s16, s35, 3 perf , ana, IMAX, 65mm, etc, etc.

Learn these standards , you will need them because without an understanding of them your ability to progress & understand this industry will be limited by your own vocabulary or lack of it.

The day you stop learning in this profession is the day your dead.

PS I guess the confusion is creeping in because we are talking largely still lenses on a motion picture body.

Its like saying learn horseshoes if you want to understand cars or learn print if you want understand the web.

Yea, not really. Most small sensors will be soon an artifact of technology in progresses. The way super 8-cameras and VSH are.
As some knowledge might be relevant others is already absolute. Learning how to operate a Steenbeck might make you appreciate the craft but it won't make you a better editor.

We use standards and there terminology as mental bridge, same way we refer to shutter angle on a digital sensor.

Bottom line, lens coverage to sensor ratio is whats relevant regardless if still or motion,
knowing the standards from the past will soon be only helpful at a flea-marked shopping for old glass. ; )

 

[Nick Morrison]

Its like saying learn horseshoes if you want to understand cars or learn print if you want understand the web.

Yea, not really. Most small sensors will be soon an artifact of technology in progresses. The way super 8-cameras and VSH are.
As some knowledge might be relevant others is already absolute. Learning how to operate a Steenbeck might make you appreciate the craft but it won't make you a better editor.

We use standards and there terminology as mental bridge, same way we refer to shutter angle on a digital sensor.

Bottom line, lens coverage to sensor ratio is whats relevant regardless if still or motion,
knowing the standards from the past will soon be only helpful at a flea-marked shopping for old glass. ; )

Yes, being aware of larger sensor's is important. That seems to be where the market is going.

But suggesting that the s35 will be consigned to a "flea market" or the past also seems far fetched. Super 35 remains, by all accounts, the best ratio of sensor size to optical performance. Meaning, you're far more likely to get a MASTER PRIME SET that covers 12mm to 150mm all at a T1.3 (ie often a F1.2!!!) than you ever will on a larger sensor (say VistaVision)...it's just PHYSICS.

Notice how long and hard it's taken ZEISS to come out with their WIDE ANGLE OTUS, which by all accounts is a 24/28mm? At a T1.4?

Master Primes go to a 12mm. At a T1.3

Also - there's a SYNTANX to Super 35 that's important, and should be valued:

When Roger Deakins says he loves to shoot on a 28mm, 32mm, and a 65mm...he's referring to MASTER PRIMES and how they look on SUPER 35.

When Janusz Kaminski says Spielperg "sees the world through a 21mm", he's refering to a 21mm MASTER PRIME on SUPER 35.

When Michael Haneke says he shoots EVERY MOVIE on a 32mm, he means a 32mm Cooke on SUPER 35.

When people say Terry Gilliam and Terrence Malick love shooting "wide angle", they mean btw 14mm-18mm on SUPER 35.

SUPER 35 has been the language of the majority of all movies shot over the past 30 years.

I highly suggest we honor and respect it, as most of the best filmmakers in the world have made it their home.

 

[Brian Merlen]

+1 but still want 8k for the extra utility of larger fov

 

[Nick Morrison]

+1 but still want 8k for the extra utility of larger fov

Of course. VistaVision is huge. But s35 is a wonderful standard. Being able to shoot on both with the same camera (8K Vista Weapon) is a huge advantage.

 

[Mark Pedersen]

To be honest, i don't see many RAVEN users go with expensive Cinema-lenses. And to expensive i count CP.2 and Xenon too. Great options for sure, but a set of those will cost some serious money. To my understanding RAVEN is built to be used with still-lenses for lightweight run&gun. You know, low-budget and indies. Fixed Canon-Mount and pricing says all.

I think RAVEN is best paired with Zeiss Milvus, maybe Otus, or Canon, Sigma... Motorized ART-lenses together with Optitron2 are very appealing and may offer more bang for the buck than a set of CP.2-lenses or a re-housed SIGMA 18-35.

I also see lots of vintage glass-users. Canon FD or Contax are cool things.

Agree. To me it's not the best target for Cinema work because of the fixed EF mount. We'll have two Weapons with PL cinema glass (Leica C + Cabrios), or the option with Canon EF mounts to use our Leica R lens sets. The Ravens will be used on corporate gigs with Leica R lenses. I was fortunate enough to score a mint 15mm Elmarit (2.8 Asph) and have every lens through the 280mm 2.8, plus a second set from 19-90mm. Also have two Leica R 70-180mm zooms (one of which we will re-house at Duclos). We'll probably also score a Tokina 11-16 EF for the Ravens and have that cinevized at Duclos. We have the 11-16 PL version but don't use it much. I'm really happy to see that all of the bodies will be able to share AKS so we can kit them up as needed.

M

 

[Mark Pedersen]

Yes, being aware of larger sensor's is important. That seems to be where the market is going.

But suggesting that the s35 will be consigned to a "flea market" or the past also seems far fetched. Super 35 remains, by all accounts, the best ratio of sensor size to optical performance. Meaning, you're far more likely to get a MASTER PRIME SET that covers 12mm to 150mm all at a T1.3 (ie often a F1.2!!!) than you ever will on a larger sensor (say VistaVision)...it's just PHYSICS.

Notice how long and hard it's taken ZEISS to come out with their WIDE ANGLE OTUS, which by all accounts is a 24/28mm? At a T1.4?

Master Primes go to a 12mm. At a T1.3

Also - there's a SYNTANX to Super 35 that's important, and should be valued:

When Roger Deakins says he loves to shoot on a 28mm, 32mm, and a 65mm...he's referring to MASTER PRIMES and how they look on SUPER 35.

When Janusz Kaminski says Spielperg "sees the world through a 21mm", he's refering to a 21mm MASTER PRIME on SUPER 35.

When Michael Haneke says he shoots EVERY MOVIE on a 32mm, he means a 32mm Cooke on SUPER 35.

When people say Terry Gilliam and Terrence Malick love shooting "wide angle", they mean btw 14mm-18mm on SUPER 35.

SUPER 35 has been the language of the majority of all movies shot over the past 30 years.

I highly suggest we honor and respect it, as most of the best filmmakers in the world have made it their home.

Totally agree.
M

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Maybe someone can answer this here. Do the GL Optics lenses maintain their electronic communication with the camera once modified?

Curious for fool control. Anyone know about AllStar as well?

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Maybe these new Voigtlanders are not directly useful for the Raven, but if you need an excellent and cheap ultra-wide and you have an M or E mount camera, they may be just the ticket:

http://photorumors.com/2015/10/09/voigtlander-announces-three-new-e-mount-lenses/

• 10 mm f/5.6 Hyper-Wide-Heliar
• 12 mm f/5.6 Ultra-Wide-Heliar
• 15 mm f/4.5 Super-Wide-Heliar

 

[Kenneth C Merrill]

Ive only ever used the PL version that obviously don't have electronic control. But I would imagine the little motors that adjust focus and aperture wouldn't have the torque to turn the focus and iris gears--since GL makes them mechanically correlative.

TL;DR: I doubt it.

Maybe someone can answer this here. Do the GL Optics lenses maintain their electronic communication with the camera once modified?

Curious for fool control. Anyone know about AllStar as well?

 

[jordan levy]

Sorry but your definition of "close " ifs different than mine. 20mm(raven)/25mm(S35) width is 80% (or 75% depending which way you are calculating) If that's "very close".......
The diagonal is even more spread out(because of the roughly 2:1 aspect ratio of the Raven vs 3:2 or 4:3 aspect ratio of the S35) 22mm diagonal Raven vs 30mm diagonal S35. If that's "very close" to you.... That's fine- your definition ;-)
And it will work fine- with the right lenses ..... just pick them carefully....

hi jacek, jarred showing that old style optimo in the latest pictures might mean there is clearance in the rear element for raven right?
what do you think? do you do an eos conversion for these lenses? thanks!

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

hi jacek, jarred showing that old style optimo in the latest pictures might mean there is clearance in the rear element for raven right?
what do you think? do you do an eos conversion for these lenses? thanks!

Optimos have type of PL mount that works with PL->EF adapters. adapter is the most practical route to mount them on EF cameras with these lenses.
It's not about the rear glass clearance with Optimos. The Angie DP lenses however may have an issue with rear glass clearance.
It's easy enough for Red to disclose the distance from the Raven mount flange to the OLFP. Hopefully they get around to it soon so the Raven customers can start lining up glass for their cameras...