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Learning the RED ecosystem

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Christian Schmitt

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As someone trying to learn more about the RED ecosystem, I was really hoping for an easier way to educate myself.

Sure I can google a topic and find some forum post on it (and I found lots of info here).

I'm just beginning to look what I can find online, but I was somehow expecting a more open approach by a company, that made cinema cameras more accessible.

Looking at the Reducation site, by now there should exist hours of video coverage of people explaining the RED workflow. Like the Ablecine workshops or similar events.

I simply might not have invested enough time searching, but going to the RED site and looking under "Learn" could offer more videos.

Maybe you think I'm spoiled, but I never understood why I don't get a free video documentation when investing serious money in a camera system.
We all know, it's neither hard nor expensive to produce.
Hell, make it 9.99 on iTunes and even turn a profit on the production...

Rant over, flame away ;)
 
Owen Rennie said:
Buy Phil Hollands book "Red DSMC Field Ops Guide" and stop complaining....
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, didn't know that one.
Still, 20 years ago I would have been exited about a new book, but in times where you can find Youtube tutorials on more things than you could ever learn,
I just expect a video from the producers of a high end camera.

How many here do corporate work and shoot instructional videos once in while?
My guess is many, it has become a part of the "sales package" of many products.
Nothing fancy, just sth like Canon did for the C300 http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/galleries/galleries/tutorials/eos_c300_tutorials_gallery.shtml

Maybe videos like this are out there already, a nudge in the right direction would be great, thanks!
 
Charles you have to remember the original target audience of RED cameras have been seasoned DP's who wouldn't resort to online videos for training. Obviously the tides are shifting and many young indi filmmakers are able to get their hands on these cameras now. If you are wanting to experience the menu system on the cameras, I suggest dowloading the IOS App "Donna". Its a menu simulator that really is helpful to familiarize where things are. Apart from that the Learn videos are actually very handy too. Like any tech, you simply have to get your hands dirty and do it yourself. Download some footage and try editing it. Your hardware setup is going to be crucial to woking efficiently. Find a friend with a camera and shoot. It really is the best way. You'll find with RED that people operate it different ways. And of course have fun. Good luck!
 
What cameras do you have experience with? If we know where you're coming from, it's easier to help.

I went from DSLR/hybrid to BMCC to RED... and RED 101 Tutorials + the DSMC Operations Guide + Phil's write-ups were enough to get me started. Then just lurking daily to stay in the loop keeps me knowledgeable.
 
Christian Schmitt said:
As someone trying to learn more about the RED ecosystem, I was really hoping for an easier way to educate myself.

Sure I can google a topic and find some forum post on it (and I found lots of info here).

I'm just beginning to look what I can find online, but I was somehow expecting a more open approach by a company, that made cinema cameras more accessible.

Looking at the Reducation site, by now there should exist hours of video coverage of people explaining the RED workflow. Like the Ablecine workshops or similar events.

I simply might not have invested enough time searching, but going to the RED site and looking under "Learn" could offer more videos.

Maybe you think I'm spoiled, but I never understood why I don't get a free video documentation when investing serious money in a camera system.
We all know, it's neither hard nor expensive to produce.
Hell, make it 9.99 on iTunes and even turn a profit on the production...

Rant over, flame away ;)
Click to expand...

Hahahahahahahaa... made me laugh.

Hey Christian,
Seriously man. It's not rocket science at all.
Camera is easy to use. Easier than my phone, Taught my kid how to use it in minutes.

RED work flow.. Even easier.

It's as simple as this.
Open Up FCPX or PP on a good desktop computer, Latest IMAC, Tube or suped up PC... Drop your 6k RED file directly onto the time. BOOM ! Your editing and grading 6k RAW.
Easy as that !

If you working of a laptop ? and want a smooth flowing timeline, transcode your footage either via RED CINE X or FCPX to PRORES and boom... Your now in a ARRI ALEXA world,

You want to send you files to Resolve, make a XML with a tick of a button... , Resolve picks that up. BOOM ! your grading in Resolve, Baselight what ever your poison ...
Or just grade your RAW files in PP or FCPX.
Your workflow your after lays within FCPX or PP tutorials, not in a RED handbook.

RED does not own ADOBE or APPLE.

My kid can do it. So can you.

PS and Phil's book looks great !

Smile :) life's good.
 
there's also the RED YoutUbe Channel and the "Nate and Sean - The ATRIUM - Shedding light on camera operation" which has a few of newer features added...

https://www.youtube.com/user/shotonred

and the mentioned RED Learn series online: which cover Workflow, Product Demos, RED 101....

http://www.red.com/learn

but best yet is a day with the camera 'hands on'
 
Hey y'all, thanks for taking this serious and all your advice!

First, I will rent a ScarletX with some Leica R glass over the next weekend. I also believe in hands-on experience.
But video training is second best - hence my wondering why there aren't more instructional videos.

And I wasn't even thinking that much about post workflow, but actual camera operation.
Get to know that black box as good as possible before testing it out next week.

I started shooting on MII and Beta and now use a C300. I've always put of looking at RED and RAW, because the market I'm in doesn't need it.
But now I feel I need it:)

So here's what I plan to do: I will record 4K 25p at 6:1. I will rate the Scarlet at 800 during daytime and try 1600 in the evening/at night.
So again, thanks for the heads up, the REDuser community has already made a good impression on me!
 
Last edited:
A couple of simple basic tips on in cam set-up before shooting:

Make sure the camera has been blackshaded properly, critical in reducing noise in darker scenes. (Menu-settings-Maintenance-Calibrate-Sensor) Camera must be at operating temp and set to intended frame rate/shutter angle.

Make sure you set the project time base to the same frame rate you will be viewing at (ie 23.98, 29.97, or if you are in PAL land 24.98) otherwise it will shoot in varispeed (slo or fast motion). (Menu-settings-Project-Frame Rate)

Will you be recording audio in camera? If so, there are lots of options to set-up depending on your mic, pre-amp and recorder, but now were getting into audio, not camera. The point is, the cam is ready for whatever sound direction you choose to go. Just have the right 1/8"(3.5mm) cable ready, or button mic for scratch audio.

In terms of power, having the AC cord or brick is great when you want to spend some quality time messing with the controls, firmware install and blackshade, otherwise for light run and gun, side handle and Redvolts will do.

I agree with Mark Toia, the camera is intuitive and super easy to use, just dive into the menu to familiarize yourself with the setup, many of the settings will be based on shooting conditions or subjective according to your taste, and experimentation. Without the camera in hand its harder to de-mystify, but it's settings are similar to any other digital motion camera, it'll only take a few minutes to learn. Have fun!
 
Christian Schmitt said:
I simply might not have invested enough time searching, but going to the RED site and looking under "Learn" could offer more videos.
Rant over, flame away ;)
Click to expand...

Christian, RED has many ways to get educated. Most of what you need to know is actually in that Learn section you don't think too highly off - especially in the 101 section.

There's also Reducation.

Phil's Field Guide.

Reduser.

And FXPHD used to have RED classes.

All the information you need...is at your fingertips...literally!
 
Christian Schmitt said:
So here's what I plan to do: I will record 4K 25p at 6:1. I will rate the Scarlet at 800 during daytime and try 1600 in the evening/at night.
So again, thanks for the heads up, the REDuser community has already made a good impression on me!
Click to expand...

If you are on Scarlet X, you may also want to consider shooting 320 if you want a really CLEAN image - you'll have to protect your highlights more, but your blacks will generally be cleaner.

Also - look at your histogram. Keep a fat negative, and ETTR if you can. Feed the sensor. Watch your goalposts, try and not have any blacks/whites clip (unless that's your creative intent).
 
if you have film experience, RED is pretty straight. A 320 ISO daylight stock that you can push to 2000, given that the higights actually have some light.

if it wouldn't work on that film stock, it probably won't work on dragon.
 
Michael Ou said:
A couple of simple basic tips on in cam set-up before shooting:

Make sure the camera has been blackshaded properly, critical in reducing noise in darker scenes. (Menu-settings-Maintenance-Calibrate-Sensor) Camera must be at operating temp and set to intended frame rate/shutter angle.

Make sure you set the project time base to the same frame rate you will be viewing at (ie 23.98, 29.97, or if you are in PAL land 24.98) otherwise it will shoot in varispeed (slo or fast motion). (Menu-settings-Project-Frame Rate)

Will you be recording audio in camera? If so, there are lots of options to set-up depending on your mic, pre-amp and recorder, but now were getting into audio, not camera. The point is, the cam is ready for whatever sound direction you choose to go. Just have the right 1/8"(3.5mm) cable ready, or button mic for scratch audio.

In terms of power, having the AC cord or brick is great when you want to spend some quality time messing with the controls, firmware install and blackshade, otherwise for light run and gun, side handle and Redvolts will do.

I agree with Mark Toia, the camera is intuitive and super easy to use, just dive into the menu to familiarize yourself with the setup, many of the settings will be based on shooting conditions or subjective according to your taste, and experimentation. Without the camera in hand its harder to de-mystify, but it's settings are similar to any other digital motion camera, it'll only take a few minutes to learn. Have fun!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips, Michael! I will try to have fun;)
 
Nick Morrison said:
All the information you need...is at your fingertips...literally!
Click to expand...
Thanks Nick, I found a lot more grazing the internet. The "launch sequence" video in the Learn section is a great start.
Maybe being used to fiddle with picture setting to optimize recording in a compressed codec, got my more worried than necessary.
RAW is still new to me;)
 
Nick Morrison said:
If you are on Scarlet X, you may also want to consider shooting 320 if you want a really CLEAN image - you'll have to protect your highlights more, but your blacks will generally be cleaner.

Also - look at your histogram. Keep a fat negative, and ETTR if you can. Feed the sensor. Watch your goalposts, try and not have any blacks/whites clip (unless that's your creative intent).
Click to expand...

Will do, since this also apples in the lossy codec world most of the time, so I#m used to it - thanks!
 
Gunleik Groven said:
if you have film experience, RED is pretty straight. A 320 ISO daylight stock that you can push to 2000, given that the higights actually have some light.

if it wouldn't work on that film stock, it probably won't work on dragon.
Click to expand...

Is this the same for the old X too?
 
Christian, don´t forget your ISO setting is just meta data and won´t change your RAW files. So yes, think of 320ASA film stock. Have fun!

Cheers, Ulf
 
FYI reds site has some great tutorials...the forum can be a drag for some. the camera works in similar ways to others on the market though, other than the OLPF thing and certain red specific parts. also guys i personally would lend a hand rather than be combative about his inquiry. we all had to learn this stuff at some point, and though i read all you experts here on RU for a long time to get accustomed to its intricacies (before buying my own and botching footage with it for a while lol) not everyone wants to read a forum obsessively like i do. id check their site, take the red course at abel or elsewhere if u want more...or even just hire someone (like me wink) to teach you a bit? you wouldn't be the first person to hire me just to have me show em the ropes on red workflow/techniques. the info is out there but its not exactly demonstrated as helpful as can be...


for instance i bitched for a while for a camera emulator and a third party finally made one, but there should be a non IoS one on reds site, period is how i feel about it. canon does it, arri does it... it helps newbies, its that simple
 
Thanks again for all the info!
I just started this thread, because I felt there could be more and more detailed educational/instructional videos from a camera maker, that aimed at the high-end owner/operator market.
Even if you went to film school in the past or worked in the industry for years, there will always be a point of first contact with RED cameras.

Thanks for being patient with me, there is a lot of info out there, just not in the place where I thought it was;)
 
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