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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

KOMODO....

Andrew Dease said:
Generally lenses or filtration give image character. I’m sure there is an explanation why BM Sony and even Canon look clear and Komodo looks like double image overlaid the image, or haze. Perhaps limitations of red sensor methodology? I don’t want baked in haze with every shoot.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_(vision)

Komodo defaults at the moment to IPP2 Low Contrast/Soft Highlight Roll-Off.

Start there. It's a deep yet simple workflow.

You own a Helium if I'm not mistaken. Tinker with that.
 
Brad Grimm said:
Its funny you use the word plastic, because I could not think of a word that described this footage, but "plastic" may be the right word. I am very unimpressed with the look coming off this sensor. I hate to say it but the new Black Magic looks a lot better to my eyes.
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This is funny to me, because I see it as one of the most organic looking sensors out there. It looks more natural than most other sensors on the market IMHO. I find it so odd that some love this sensor and others hate it.
 
Outside of the sample clip Phil has uploaded are there any other R3Ds to download? Any owners out there who like the camera able to upload to R3D clips or even just snapshots?

Phil's R3D for download looks great, but there really is a lot of awful footage being uploaded.
 
Christian Jadot said:
This is funny to me, because I see it as one of the most organic looking sensors out there. It looks more natural than most other sensors on the market IMHO. I find it so odd that some love this sensor and others hate it.
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Its all just a matter of taste at this point with all these cameras. Dragon, Monstro are my two favorite Red sensors. They have a very filmic look to them. This thing really gives me more "video" vibes, but again its just a matter of taste.
 
Andrew Dease said:
Generally lenses or filtration give image character. I’m sure there is an explanation why BM Sony and even Canon look clear and Komodo looks like double image overlaid the image, or haze. Perhaps limitations of red sensor methodology? I don’t want baked in haze with every shoot.
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Could be because much of what’s been posted so far is shot around LA and it is hazy.
But it is worth remembering that the firmware is not finished yet.

BM cameras don’t have OLPF’s. To me they have a hard edged crunchy look.

For the few r3d frames I have played with in RCX so far it seems like you can make them look like anything you want given a little time to tinker and learn the camera. Tim Daust’s footage looks pretty crisp depending on grade.

Personally I really like the way the IQ is shaping up. Like it better than anything else in it’s price class that I have had samples to play with.
 
Prosumer cameras that shoot to H264 or HEVC tend to apply a bit of sharpening to footage written out to these formats.

If you can’t find good looking Komodo footage you aren’t looking very hard. Jared has posted countless great examples on his IG. Soderbergh’s film LET THEM ALL TALK shot on Komodo should be out this year and I’m sure will look amazing.

Not to mention the camera isn’t feature complete yet and I’m sure there are still tweaks to be made. The beauty of RAW footage has always been the ability to deal with footage pre sharpening and control it to your own taste.
 
David Rasberry said:
I expected this cooling tunnel design months ago when the body design was first revealed. Electronics mounted to heat sinks on all four sides of the tunnel are still hermetically sealed off from the outside environment. No exposure to dust and moisture. Fans are the only vulnerable electronics.

The elegant sophistication of Komodo's engineering, mechanically, electronically, and visually with its imagery becomes more apparent every day.
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Yeah I was super excited when I took a look through the side of the camera. I wouldn’t imagine the electronics are quite well protected (and more importantly shielded from the cooling. If Komodo inhales a big cloud of dust it will likely be able to spit it out the other side. A straight through design like this is really smart just from a thermal and airflow standpoint as well. The more the fan shrouds and pathway are sealed up the more the airflow can be carefully controlled and avoid unnecessary turbulence.

The new Mac Pro is a great example of this as well. Internals are extremely simple and are mostly just massive heat sinks with fan shrouds and outer casing forming a seal that creates negative pressure. When the air has nowhere else it can leak into and has nowhere to go but out the exhaust, it goes out the exhaust and does so in a hurry.

I would love to see the thermal CFD for Komodo’s cooling system.
 
Andrew Dease said:
Uhe that wasn't the video I posted. Im saying all the videos from Komodo look like gauze is in front of the sensor. Sony may look plastic but it looks extremely clear.

It has to do with the OLPF or sensor or?

Please show me a clear sharp Komodo video.

Curtis Boggs and Phil come best so far.
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There are so many other factors that are important for a look. In-camera, you have shutter speeds, ISO and OLPFs applied etc. and in post you have post-sharpening, mid-tone contrasts and DR handling. On top of that you need to factor in shooting location and especially lens choices. If you shoot with a cheap lens at wide open you will get a blurry look and if the target is moving or camera is moving you will never have any sharp objects in frame at all.

None of this has to do with the sensor really. Closest would be how the OLPF is handling stuff, but as I gather you don't have an OLPF on the Sony if you're talking about the A7s?

Bottom line, DSLRs process their video into HEVC form with in-camera sharpening and no OLPFs. They're not really made for video, it's marketing since they know they will sell more cameras if they include good video capabilities. It's the same as selling more TV's based on extremely over-sharped colorful 60fps 4K videos in stores on sale-calibrated TVs.

It's an illusion and Komodo is not selling the illusion, it's selling on the features and specs that matter for video.



Then you need to factor in that there are plenty of people who have money to buy cameras but aren't anywhere near competent cinematographers. Shooting badly lit, un-optimized situations, with no post-processing understanding other than "directly out of the camera". Seriously, all the videos which claim "directly out of the camera" seem to miss that the post-process of Red footage is a crucial part of the process and a major point of the workflow. All while using cheap lenses at apertures where the glass quality falls apart.

In contrast to that, there are also plenty of buyers who apply outdated pink/teal/orange/teal LUTs slapped onto the material for that "hazy" awful look that feels like a bad trip or peak norovirus symptoms when watching it. :ack2: While shooting at 2K 120 fps and have no clue what supersampling does.

Most people aren't really photographers or cinematographers, they have money and can point a camera in a direction. They have very basic understanding of how to get exposure. If you want to see good material that was handled by true masters, then you need to search for those people's work. There's a reason why 2K Arri Alexa footage on a 2K lieMAX screen looks fantastically sharp and nice... they know what they're doing behind those scenes.

Can't wait to get my hands on the Hydrogen discount version and do some proper sharp and balanced test footage in the same way as any real-world gig would demand of me.
 
Andrew Dease said:
Uhe that wasn't the video I posted. Im saying all the videos from Komodo look like gauze is in front of the sensor. Sony may look plastic but it looks extremely clear.

It has to do with the OLPF or sensor or?

Please show me a clear sharp Komodo video.

Curtis Boggs and Phil come best so far.
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It's NOT the camera, it's operator errors or guys who aren't colorists applying their own post to these images. I've seen the same things you're talking about and as someone who owns a komodo and has been shooting tests with it for the past 2 days, I can tell you the image is super super clean and sharp.

I see a lot of guys that rush to shoot and make mistakes without cleaning lenses properly, cleaning filters properly, using subpar filters or lenses to shoot... It's been a mix. Look at Curtis Boggs beach video with the female model. Extremely sharp, clear, proper colors, the whole lot. I'm doing tests on my Nikon Vista Primes and will be posting those later next week, but even with these vintage rehoused lenses, you get super sharp clean images. The IPP2 image formula is one that doesnt play nice with 3rd party luts as well.

no, your eyes are not screwed. Yes I've seen the SAME issues with images from Komodo at the start. NO it's NOT the camera, it is operator based, but I'm seeing just beautiful footage out of mine, and Ive seen great stuff here and there from others as well.
 
I have said it before. The best way to get an idea of what Komodo is capable of is to download RCX and the R3D samples posted. Play around with it for yourself. Like saturated, sharp, and high contrast? Grade it that way. One can spend hours exploring the infinite range of possibilities in a single frame.

Sony A7III? I see the same blown highlights, blocked shadows, and limited color palettes common to all subsampled compressed video.
You can’t see Komodo’s potential on Youtube videos.
 
Andrew Dease said:
Generally lenses or filtration give image character. I’m sure there is an explanation why BM Sony and even Canon look clear and Komodo looks like double image overlaid the image, or haze. Perhaps limitations of red sensor methodology? I don’t want baked in haze with every shoot.
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Reading up how Canon does their global shutter with good dynamic range, you maybe on to something. (It is pretty similar to HDRx, but the shorter exposed track is sampled through out the longer exposed track per frame.) I am not saying this is how RED achieves the dynamic range in the Komodo, but it is how Canon does it.

And again, I personally LOVE the look of Komodo's image.
 
The funniest thing about much of this is the first shot of Matt's clip shows you all something amazing.
 
Phil Holland said:
The funniest thing about much of this is the first shot of Matt's clip shows you all something amazing.
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The highlight rolloff from the sun into the haze around it is so beautifully smooth. I hit pause and just had to stare at it a while.
 
J. Orlandi said:
no, your eyes are not screwed. Yes I've seen the SAME issues with images from Komodo at the start. NO it's NOT the camera, it is operator based, but I'm seeing just beautiful footage out of mine, and Ive seen great stuff here and there from others as well.
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I'm glad to hear that. I've been getting pretty nervous about being on the Stormtrooper list because, to be bluntly honest, aside from a couple good tests, every other one looks like it was shot on the original 1080p Blackmagic Pocket Camera with a vintage lens and a pro-mist filter. I'm glad to hear from someone that Komodo is capable of a sharp, contrasty, modern image. I still have trouble wrapping my head around how the vast majority of the test footage out there doesn't do this new camera any justice at all. It's difficult to comprehend how a dozen or so testers all made similar mistakes with their shots. I mean, I remember better images from pre-production GH4's and early release 2.5K Blackmagic cameras and they were in far less capable hands.
 
I suspect the issue people are seeing is all about the sharpening - or lack of - in the mix. It's been an issue back to the R1 days. SOP for camera makers is to "sweeten" the image via processing techniques matched to the profile of the sensor and EOTF properties. It's also easier to sell a camera with "prettified" pictures than one that requires proper treatment to reach its full potential.

Authoring a unique, intentional image that adds just the right flavor to manifest greater meaning can be accomplished many ways. That said, the R3D data set offers so much flexibility in "development" of the desired RGB image that your options in the digital darkroom are incredible. With all that power comes the ability to make final images that run the gamut from yucky to fantastic. RED has stuck to their philosophy of giving creators that power and have taken a lot of hits from critics when that power led to poor results. This is not a new phenomenon with Komodo.

You can cook from scratch with carefully selected ingredients or microwave a pre-made dish. Both are paths to putting a tasty meal on the table. One gets you a consistently good result. The other is highly dependent on the talent, skill set and taste (both kinds) to create something special. Your choice.

Cheers - #19
 
Ryan Genova said:
I remember better images from pre-production GH4's and early release 2.5K Blackmagic cameras and they were in far less capable hands.
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GH4 files are NOT RAW. They are the video equivalent of a camera's JPEG with added saturation and sharpening and contrast curve. Anyone who has shot in Panasonic's V-log faces SOME of the same issues as shooting RAW, yet again, the path to a decent grade is still simpler than Red RAW. Red RAW isn't complicated, but the steps are specific. And when those steps get messed up, people output bad footage. The best camera people I know are ecstatic about what Komodo can do. About a month from now, all these "nervous" conversations about what Komodo can or can't do in regards to image quality will be laughable.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I suspect the issue people are seeing is all about the sharpening - or lack of - in the mix. It's been an issue back to the R1 days. SOP for camera makers is to "sweeten" the image via processing techniques matched to the profile of the sensor and EOTF properties. It's also easier to sell a camera with "prettified" pictures than one that requires proper treatment to reach its full potential.

Authoring a unique, intentional image that adds just the right flavor to manifest greater meaning can be accomplished many ways. That said, the R3D data set offers so much flexibility in "development" of the desired RGB image that your options in the digital darkroom are incredible. With all that power comes the ability to make final images that run the gamut from yucky to fantastic. RED has stuck to their philosophy of giving creators that power and have taken a lot of hits from critics when that power led to poor results. This is not a new phenomenon with Komodo.

You can cook from scratch with carefully selected ingredients or microwave a pre-made dish. Both are paths to putting a tasty meal on the table. One gets you a consistently good result. The other is highly dependent on the talent, skill set and taste (both kinds) to create something special. Your choice.

Cheers - #19
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This!...pretty much....
 
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