KOMODO....

[Jeffrey Loewe]

In my head, the way Komodo came to be, it makes perfect sense to forget everything else.
The baby Dragon that's about to come into the world is different than all other cinema cameras.
We are dealing with a whole new sensor tech here.
So it is safe to expect the unexpected, but also consider that RED is building a whole new market with Komodo. A market with no competition at the moment.
If I remember correctly, we asked all kinds of questions, but never asked any about the OLPF.

I'm not saying that there is a direct comparable when it comes to the Komodo in regards to the sensor tech. However I will say that the market it's falling in, is already in existence. Some may argue that, but you have Z-Cam, BMD, the SLR's etc. I view the segment the Komodo is coming into is basically the "light, portable, affordable and minimalistic" market.

Its debate-able for BMD on battery life, but this whole market is giving you 5K-8K imagery for a good chunk less than Komodo.

 

[Daniel Porto]

i had a dream that i stole a komodo last night and got tracked down by red via the wifi ping hahah

 

[David Rasberry]

I'm not saying that there is a direct comparable when it comes to the Komodo in regards to the sensor tech. However I will say that the market it's falling in, is already in existence. Some may argue that, but you have Z-Cam, BMD, the SLR's etc. I view the segment the Komodo is coming into is basically the "light, portable, affordable and minimalistic" market.

Its debate-able for BMD on battery life, but this whole market is giving you 5K-8K imagery for a good chunk less than Komodo.

Each of those has it's own features and limitations. Jarred said at one point that Komodo was developed as a companion camera to the DSMC line and he would consider it a success if it only sold to Red owners.
Most of us feel it will have much broader appeal. Price, frame rates and resolution are not the only important considerations for potential buyers.

 

[Marios Karageorgiou]

I hope and wish Komodo to be equal in image quality as the other Red cameras. I was watching Red cameras for so many years and it was a dream for me to buy someday my "RED" camera! Imagine that I own a c100 mark ii from 2015 and I was ready to buy C200 for my work... BUT this little camera came on and the heart beat was a big one when I saw it for 1st time! So Im here waiting and hoping to own this little dragon! What I need to say the "big" yes with a lot of joy is... same image quality and dr like the rest red cameras! Fingers crossed...

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

I hope and wish Komodo to be equal in image quality as the other Red cameras. I was watching Red cameras for so many years and it was a dream for me to buy someday my "RED" camera! Imagine that I own a c100 mark ii from 2015 and I was ready to buy C200 for my work... BUT this little camera came on and the heart beat was a big one when I saw it for 1st time! So Im here waiting and hoping to own this little dragon! What I need to say the "big" yes with a lot of joy is... same image quality and dr like the rest red cameras! Fingers crossed...

Same quality and DR as the rest of RED Cmeras?
I do not think so, they better stop making Ranger...
Komodo will likely compete with Z-cams and Pocketcam. Even Kine Mavo LF will be better, not that i would buy Chinese camera.
It will be hard to sell any camera next 12 months.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Same quality and DR as the rest of RED Cmeras?
I do not think so, they better stop making Ranger...
Komodo will likely compete with Z-cams and Pocketcam. Even Kine Mavo LF will be better, not that i would buy Chinese camera.
It will be hard to sell any camera next 12 months.

Of course the image quality will be equal to the all other red cameras.

 

[Ty Maier]

Of course the image quality will be equal to the all other red cameras.

For sure. It was already mentioned a while ago that we were within a stop of helium. And the fact that we haven’t seen any product specific footage can imply that the color science keeps getting better.

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

Of course the image quality will be equal to the all other red cameras.

Nonsense

 

[Nick Morrison]

Of course the image quality will be equal to the all other red cameras.

Yeah exactly. I don't know why people think Komodo is going to take a step back here.

I'm pretty sure on a practical level, Komodo will be indistinguishable from Dragon, but probably have some improvements - significantly less CMOS smear (as Jarred has hinted), global shutter (this is big), and perhaps even better color as it's a new sensor design.

So already off the bat, I think it's safe to assume Komodo at 23.98 is at least equal (and perhaps superior) to an Epic Dragon, a Scarlet-W and a Raven.

And just a reminder that a lot of movies have been shot on Epic Dragon.

And Komodo is probably on par with Dragon-X. A little behind Gemini. And a smidge behind Helium. And obv behind Monstro. But obviously in the same ballpark. It's been specifically designed to work with seamlessly with these other cameras.

RED aren't idiots. They have obviously created this camera for real world applications on major studio productions. It's going to be the B and C cam on a lot of high profile projects (ie The Matrix). But that only works if it can hold its own. It doesn't work if it's actually a shitty camera. Let me rephrase that. What will make Komodo a success is that it's a real RED camera.

Yes, that's disruptive.

Yes, that's going to piss some people off.

But this happens every 3 years at RED, or faster.

If this is a surprise to you, then you haven't been paying attention.

My guess is in real world situations Komodo (ie on a studio with controlled lighting) Komodo will be indistinguishable from Gemini, Helium and Monstro. It will drop right in.

But right now Komodo can do a lot of things those cameras's can't.

It can do 4K out - and probably 444 4K out via SDI. Think about what that means for remote capture.

It has a global shutter - think about about that means for VFX and green screen.

It is smaller and more affordable - think about how that will impact plate work (8 cameras strapped to a vehicle will be a lot easier now).

Think about VFX pipelines where 30 cameras are pre-rigged around the studio. It's not practical to rig 30 expensive A cams.

It's a lot easier with more affordable C cams.

But that only works if the C cam is as good as a B cam and in fact almost as good as an A cam.

In fact, it can be an A cam for most people.

Just not on these massive shoots.

And obviously it can't do everything, it's not designed to. If you want offspeed, you'll have to shoot on the larger DSCM2 cams.

If you want 8K, you'll have to shoot Helium or Monstro.

But Komodo hasn't been designed to do everything.

I'm starting to get a better picture now of what I think Komodo is designed to do - it's all the other things Monstro/Gemini/Helium don't have to do. Which on larger VFX projects is actually a lot of shit.

And especially now as this pandemic has fast-tracked a lot of these VFX pipelines and workflows, Komodo may become the camera people didn't know they wanted, and but suddenly now know they need.

I think Komodo is going to surprise a lot of people, and I for one am looking forward to it.

 

[Björn Benckert]

My guess. Better image than helium. 6k pretty much on par with monstro but with a little bit less latitude traded for global shutter.
To me helium was a bit of a side step, improvements from dragon in terms of latitude but also more problems with out of gamut colors and colorfringing.

So likly an image like gemini on daylight iso and global shutter.

I doubt red would take a step back in quality with komodo if price is is less than half compared to the current linup.

 

[Marios Karageorgiou]

Yeah exactly. I don't know why people think Komodo is going to take a step back here.

I'm pretty sure on a practical level, Komodo will be indistinguishable from Dragon, but probably have some improvements - significantly less CMOS smear (as Jared has hinted), global shutter (this is big), and perhaps even better color as it's a new sensor design.

So already off the bat, I think it's safe to assume Komodo at 23.98 is at least equal (and perhaps superior) to an Epic Dragon, a Scarlet-W and a Raven.

And just a reminder that a lot of movies have been shot on Epic Dragon.

And Komodo is probably on par with Dragon-X. A little behind Gemini. And a smidge behind Helium. And obv behind Monstro. But obviously in the same ballpark. It's been specifically designed to work with seamlessly with these other cameras.

RED aren't idiots. They have obviously created this camera for real world applications on major studio productions. It's going to be the B and C cam on a lot of high profile projects (ie The Matrix). But that only works if it can hold its own. It doesn't work if it's actually a shitty camera. Let me rephrase that. What will make Komodo a success is that it's a real RED camera.

Yes, that's disruptive.

Yes, that's going to piss some people off.

But this happens every 3 years at RED, or faster.

If this is a surprise to you, then you haven't been paying attention.

My guess is in real world situations Komodo (ie on a studio with controlled lighting) Komodo will be indistinguishable from Gemini, Helium and Monstro. It will drop right in.

But right now Komodo can do a lot of things those cameras's can't.

It can do 4K out - and probably 444 4K out via SDI. Think about what that means for remote capture.

It has a global shutter - think about about that means for VFX and green screen.

It is smaller and more affordable - think about how that will impact plate work (8 cameras strapped to a vehicle will be a lot easier now).

Think about VFX pipelines where 30 cameras are pre-rigged around the studio. It's not practical to rig 30 expensive A cams.

It's a lot easier with more affordable C cams.

But that only works if the C cam is as good as a B cam and in fact almost as good as an A cam.

In fact, it can be an A cam for most people.

Just not on these massive shoots.

And obviously it can't do everything, it's not designed to. If you want offspeed, you'll have to shoot on the larger DSCM2 cams.

If you want 8K, you'll have to shoot Helium or Monstro.

But Komodo hasn't been designed to do everything.

I'm starting to get a better picture now of what I think Komodo is designed to do - it's all the other things Monstro/Gemini/Helium don't have to do. Which on larger VFX projects is actually a lot of shit.

And especially now as this pandemic has fast-tracked a lot of these VFX pipelines and workflows, Komodo may become the camera people didn't know they wanted, and but suddenly now know they need.

I think Komodo is going to surprise a lot of people, and I for one am looking forward to it.

Wow that's already gave me wings to fly!! I think too that Red won't take a step back with Komodo also. Your explanation is great! Can't wait!

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

Yeah exactly. I don't know why people think Komodo is going to take a step back here.

I'm pretty sure on a practical level, Komodo will be indistinguishable from Dragon, but probably have some improvements - significantly less CMOS smear (as Jared has hinted), global shutter (this is big), and perhaps even better color as it's a new sensor design.

So already off the bat, I think it's safe to assume Komodo at 23.98 is at least equal (and perhaps superior) to an Epic Dragon, a Scarlet-W and a Raven.

And just a reminder that a lot of movies have been shot on Epic Dragon.

And Komodo is probably on par with Dragon-X. A little behind Gemini. And a smidge behind Helium. And obv behind Monstro. But obviously in the same ballpark. It's been specifically designed to work with seamlessly with these other cameras.

RED aren't idiots. They have obviously created this camera for real world applications on major studio productions. It's going to be the B and C cam on a lot of high profile projects (ie The Matrix). But that only works if it can hold its own. It doesn't work if it's actually a shitty camera. Let me rephrase that. What will make Komodo a success is that it's a real RED camera.

Yes, that's disruptive.

Yes, that's going to piss some people off.

But this happens every 3 years at RED, or faster.

If this is a surprise to you, then you haven't been paying attention.

My guess is in real world situations Komodo (ie on a studio with controlled lighting) Komodo will be indistinguishable from Gemini, Helium and Monstro. It will drop right in.

But right now Komodo can do a lot of things those cameras's can't.

It can do 4K out - and probably 444 4K out via SDI. Think about what that means for remote capture.

It has a global shutter - think about about that means for VFX and green screen.

It is smaller and more affordable - think about how that will impact plate work (8 cameras strapped to a vehicle will be a lot easier now).

Think about VFX pipelines where 30 cameras are pre-rigged around the studio. It's not practical to rig 30 expensive A cams.

It's a lot easier with more affordable C cams.

But that only works if the C cam is as good as a B cam and in fact almost as good as an A cam.

In fact, it can be an A cam for most people.

Just not on these massive shoots.

And obviously it can't do everything, it's not designed to. If you want offspeed, you'll have to shoot on the larger DSCM2 cams.

If you want 8K, you'll have to shoot Helium or Monstro.

But Komodo hasn't been designed to do everything.

I'm starting to get a better picture now of what I think Komodo is designed to do - it's all the other things Monstro/Gemini/Helium don't have to do. Which on larger VFX projects is actually a lot of shit.

And especially now as this pandemic has fast-tracked a lot of these VFX pipelines and workflows, Komodo may become the camera people didn't know they wanted, and but suddenly now know they need.

I think Komodo is going to surprise a lot of people, and I for one am looking forward to it.

No step back with Komodo. Cheap camera for different application and market. I can take this Pepsi Challenge and say 5K Ranger will do circles around it. Nothing wrong with Komodo Specs for $6-8K but it ain't Ranger or even Kine LF Edge i dare to say IMAGE wise.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Yes, that's going to piss some people off.

I should hope so!

To me helium was a bit of a side step

True, but I think Red was just showing off. ;-)

 

[Bob Gundu]

No step back with Komodo. Cheap camera for different application and market. I can take this Pepsi Challenge and say 5K Ranger will do circles around it. Nothing wrong with Komodo Specs for $6-8K but it ain't Ranger or even Kine LF Edge i dare to say IMAGE wise.

Komodo is cheaper for other reasons. Not image quality.

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

Komodo is cheaper for other reasons. Not image quality.

wow, we have the first user here.
""Komodo is cheaper for other reasons. Not image quality.""" what does it mean exactly?? Same as Ranger 5K??

 

[David Rasberry]

wow, we have the first user here.
""Komodo is cheaper for other reasons. Not image quality.""" what does it mean exactly?? Same as Ranger 5K??

It means that Komodo was designed to intercut with DSMC2 cameras with no significant differences in IQ. It is supposed to be most similar to Helium in IQ and DR, resolution differences aside. Jarred mentioned that his impression was a cross between Helium and Dragon-X, Within 1/2 stop DR with a global shutter, meaning 16+ stops. That is a major breakthrough achievement. Still at least a stop ahead of every other current camera in the price class for usable DR.

It is cheaper because it has been designed to work with common third party media and accessories and has less processing power than DSMC2 which shows up as lower maximum frame rates. It has a fixed lens mount and more limited I/O options than DSMC2 cameras and will most likely record Redcode only internally. Other codecs will require an external recorder via SDI and be limited to 4k. With DSMC2 you are paying more for frame rates and operating features: interchangeable mounts and OLPF's, modular I/O options, Prores recording, etc.

Mavo is a major improvement over previous Kinefinity cameras for IQ and color science, but I still don't like the motion quality. I'd pay the extra grand for Komodo for the global shutter alone. Don't care about the frame rates.

 

[Bob Gundu]

wow, we have the first user here.
""Komodo is cheaper for other reasons. Not image quality.""" what does it mean exactly?? Same as Ranger 5K??

Komodo, like every RED camera prides itself on image quality while using one of the best RAW formats available. Komodo is not a toy. It was designed to do a specific task very well. Image quality is just a given with a RED camera. This camera is designed to fit alongside existing RED products. If the image quality wasn’t in line with the others, what’s the point? Jarred has made it clear the Komodo will not have the bells and whistles of the DSMC2 but he said he did not sacrifice image quality.

 

[Bob Gundu]

It means that Komodo was designed to intercut with DSMC2 cameras with no significant differences in IQ. It is supposed to be most similar to Helium in IQ and DR, resolution differences aside. Within 1/2 stop DR with a global shutter. That is a major breakthrough achievement. Still at least a stop ahead of every other current camera in the price class for usable DR.

Mavo is a major improvement over previous Kinefinity cameras for IQ and color science, but I still don't like the motion quality. I'd pay the extra grand for Komodo for the global shutter alone.

As a side note, Ranger 5k doesn’t have better image quality than the Gemini either. It’s the same camera within a different body.

 

[Gregory Karydis]

wow, we have the first user here.
""Komodo is cheaper for other reasons. Not image quality.""" what does it mean exactly?? Same as Ranger 5K??

By mentioning Ranger 5K, you mean the Ranger equipped with a Gemini sensor, as they share the same IQ specs.

As it's been stated before, IQ is closer to Helium, but as you can infer from the larger photosites of the Komodo (6K VS 8K for a roughly S35 sensor size) we could expect a performance between Dragon-X and Helium, but since we have no indication of a dual sensitivity, it is best not to introduce the low-light aspect of Gemini in the equation.

As everyone has already stated, RED cameras are meant to play well with each other. The baby Dragon may not feature the bells and whistles of the DSMC2 or the RANGER, but there's a whole bunch of new things it brings to the party... So keep an open mind!

 

[Nick Morrison]

As a side note, Ranger 5k doesn’t have better image quality than the Gemini either. It’s the same camera within a different body.

Although....with bigger/better fans...I have wondered if Rangers control temperature better, and therefore may have slightly less noise...

So maybe Rangers are a smidge better? Teensie?

However, I do think what you're saying Bob is more likely - that a Gemini sensor looks the same in both bodies (DSMCS vs Ranger). The larger fans are probably addressing another type of noise - SOUND - as the larger fans presumably push more air quietly than their smaller DSMC2 counterparts.

I usually try and keep some of these very nerdy musings to myself, but hey since we're all here hanging out anyway...