Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

KOMODO....

Björn Benckert said:
Sure Komodo will be great to use as witness camera, as for such Global shutter is a tremendous plus. But that is also a fact for the A cam if doing VFX work and we dont know what komodo will deliver in terms of DR, light sensitivity, pixel quality etc. Technology moves forward, to me it would not be a complete shocker if it will trump most of the current offerings, then when everyone ordered one or a few, Jarred starts a new thread and unveils the DSMC3 line... which of course will be even better. :)
Click to expand...

According to an earlier post from Jarred, Komodo will less that half a stop behind Helium DR-wise.
According to DXOMark, Helium is 15.2 stops of usable DR so based on that information we can assume (hope) that Komodo will be between 14.7 and that 15.2.
 
Bastien Tribalat said:
According to an earlier post from Jarred, Komodo will less that half a stop behind Helium DR-wise.
According to DXOMark, Helium is 15.2 stops of usable DR so based on that information we can assume (hope) that Komodo will be between 14.7 and that 15.2.
Click to expand...

So Helium is 15.2 usable. Arri Mini LF is 14 and DR is better. Go and Figure..
 
Good to hear things are slowly and safely getting back on track Jarred!
Safety for everyone is paramount!
Glad that you've got all these protocols in place :)
Baby steps until everything is back on track.
I am sure everyone is anxious to see the Baby Dragons hatch asap, but we can all agree we'd rather if it happened in a safe manner.
 
Bastien Tribalat said:
According to an earlier post from Jarred, Komodo will less that half a stop behind Helium DR-wise.
According to DXOMark, Helium is 15.2 stops of usable DR so based on that information we can assume (hope) that Komodo will be between 14.7 and that 15.2.
Click to expand...

no way... Helium is close to Alexa, it's somewhere between 13.5-14 stops. I think Komodo will be 13-13.5. C500 is 13.1 so 13.2-13.3 will be very good result! Pocket 6K is 11.8 Ursa Mini 12.6, source: Cinema5D.
 
Jiri Vrozina said:
So Helium is 15.2 usable. Arri Mini LF is 14 and DR is better. Go and Figure..
Click to expand...

I did specify "according to DXOMark"... And as far as I know they did not put the Alexa Mini LF to their testing protocols. (as a matter of fact I think the RED Helium is the only cinema camera they have tested so far)

This was just a point of reference. As it has been mentionned A LOT here (and everywhere) : people measure DR différently. RED for instance states that Helium is 16 stops of DR, while DXOMark says 15.2 of usable DR.
ARRI states its cameras have "14+ stops" of DR. And that "+" is important. It has more than 14 stops of DR, BUT they feel that 14 is the usable DR.
Meenwhile, our very dear Phil Holland tested the Monstro VS the LF and found pretty similar results (at least to my eyes XD).

What I'm saying is that, depending on how you test and measure, you'll have different numbers and the important part of my post what that's Komodo is supposed to be less than half a stop behing Helium. That's all.

(you can also find people claiming that the Pocket 4K as as good an sensor as the Arri Alexa and we all know that it's just not true :p)

Tomasz Nizielski said:
no way... Helium is close to Alexa, it's somewhere between 13.5-14 stops. I think Komodo will be 13-13.5. C500 is 13.1 so 13.2-13.3 will be very good result! Pocket 6K is 11.8 Ursa Mini 12.6, source: Cinema5D.
Click to expand...



Just as a point of reference, here is a screenshot of the DXO Mark page (again, it's just one of the tests and how THEY tested it).
sk8HohW.png


One thing to note is that Cinema5D doesn't use RAW of DR testing (which may be a difference with the DXO Mark testing protocols, I don't know).

THE POINT was not the actual numbers, but the "half a stop behind Helium" part anyway.
 
Last edited:
Bastien Tribalat said:
Interesting footage.
Kinda bummed by the Instagram resolution I would have loved to watch it like on Vimeo in 4K or something. But still, thanks Jarred.
Click to expand...

Yea really odd tactic. People been dying to see footage and they release in instagram lol. But then again people shoot music videos with 8k cams and upload in youtube at 1080p
 
Jiri Vrozina said:
So Helium is 15.2 usable. Arri Mini LF is 14 and DR is better. Go and Figure..
Click to expand...

Alexa has 7 stops in underexposure and 7 stops in overexposure. Helium has 9 stop in underexposure and 6 stops in overexposure.
DR in mini is not better than Helium.
 
Jae Solina said:
Yea really odd tactic. People been dying to see footage and they release in instagram lol. But then again people shoot music videos with 8k cams and upload in youtube at 1080p
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by tactic? This wasn't a marketing video. Or a "look how good this camera is give me your money" video. The camera isn't out yet. There is nothing to buy yet.. It was on my personal instagram and I have no idea why Instagram shares that to Facebook at such a shit resolution. But that's not what that video was about anyways.

Remember, we all at RED have all been in lock down in California, our factory has been closed. So I gave a bunch of Komodos to my troops to go shoot with. I've been doing the same. It's great for testing, and it is even better for us all to not lose our minds.

Most of us have gotten so busy over the last few years with the "business" that actual shooting has become one of those things that always seems to get pushed down the to-do list. And you gotta remember most of us are shooters... so watching my team go out while we have been on this pause and shoot stuff again and seeing that creative spark light up in them has been one of the most gratifying things ever for me. Heck... I personally have shot more in the last 2 months than I have in the last 2 years. It has reminded me why we started all this in the first place.


So yeah.. I know you all want to pixel peep and see footage and trust me that stuff will all come like a storm when it's out and people get their hands on it. It's getting close. When that happens I am sure there will be a ton of people sharing full resolution R3D's sent around the world and back again for you all to dig into, and I am sure some of it will be awesome, and I am sure some of it will suck.
 
Everyone is hungry for footage wanting to see how good Komodo is. Sure there may be naysayers or critics (as there always are) but I prefer to believe the community wants to have something else to rally behind...although it’s not as though the current Red lineup isn’t already leading the way for the industry.

Like many of the others here, I think we agree it would be awesome to have the manual published so we can all see for ourselves what you’ve got planned, and be able to prepare for acquiring the parts we will need when the call comes. How much will GDU be able to supply for example, and what is Red-proper going to be making themselves?

Yeah, there will be people who aren’t happy enough with the overall specs, or the actual price point, because the nature of some is to always want more. I think you’ve done a masterful sell job as far as creating the desire for Komodo. It is its own little beast, and will stand on its own, along side the rest of the Red lineup.

Personally I understand the reticence to give any more info too soon because you’ve got all the competitors watching and wanting to steal Red’s market innovations. They say imitation is the best flattery. True to a point, although in the case of Red there’s certainly a rebel brand in the DNA, combined with the customer service experience, and if these other companies really want to steal some thunder, they can’t come close...and I’m sure the next iteration of Red camera tech is already well underway.
 
Jarred Land said:
Remember, we all at RED have all been in lock down in California, our factory has been closed. So I gave a bunch of Komodos to my troops to go shoot with. I've been doing the same. It's great for testing, and it is even better for us all to not lose our minds.

Most of us have gotten so busy over the last few years with the "business" that actual shooting has become one of those things that always seems to get pushed down the to-do list. And you gotta remember most of us are shooters... so watching my team go out while we have been on this pause and shoot stuff again and seeing that creative spark light up in them has been one of the most gratifying things ever for me. Heck... I personally have shot more in the last 2 months than I have in the last 2 years. It has reminded me why we started all this in the first place.


So yeah.. I know you all want to pixel peep and see footage and trust me that stuff will all come like a storm when it's out and people get their hands on it. It's getting close. When that happens I am sure there will be a ton of people sharing full resolution R3D's sent around the world and back again for you all to dig into, and I am sure some of it will be awesome, and I am sure some of it will suck.
Click to expand...

I’m sure this pause is welcome by most of us and especially for the RED Team and the troops to take the time and enjoy shooting!
This must really help balance out the craziness of what’s happening over the past couple of months!
Hopefully when things get back to normal you can adjust and allocate some time for personal projects to allow those creative juices to continue flowing!
In the meantime, enjoy shooting Jarred! :)

Looking forward to anything you and the troops can share!!!

When the time is right I’m sure everyone will be ready and waiting to pixel peep, but until then, let’s all make the best of this and enjoy those little pleasures afforded by this hiatus in business :)

Patrick Tresch said:
483 pages and no R3D... Is that the first time in RED history? Perhaps ony RED One had more pages?
Click to expand...

Komodo is a whole new beast!
I’m sure we will see R3Ds when the time is right and as Jarred said, they’ll start floating around the internets soon as people get their hands on the finished product.
Meanwhile, Graeme is probably making ice cream and working his magic to perfect the Komodo Secret Sauce along with the rest of Team RED...
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Alexandros Tsoupras said:
Even DRAGON has more DR from alexa.
https://vimeo.com/151445749
Click to expand...

From what I have seen, I concur. Although we can fairly say that they are both great in that department. It's a choice between good and better, not bad and good. And Red did it without dual gain. Both cameras have more DR than hybrids like the GH5 or A7s.
 
Sigh.

I've shown you all to the water, but none seem to have discovered to drink.

If you are looking for more stops allocated to highlights while maintaining a somewhat similar noise levels to ALEV III.

Take Monstro and equip these OLPFs with this combination:
- Low Light Optimzed: ISO 2000-2500
- Standard: ISO 1600-2000
- Skin Tone - Highlight: ISO 800-1280

With the LLO and STD you can likely even rate higher. STH at 1280, watch noise levels, that is an aggressive color science filter. Eats light, makes better color however.

Works with all of the cameras really. Ideally you'll be aiming at maximum resolution of each sensor. Helium and Monstro you can get away with 6K, perhaps 5K even on Monstro.

One of the things my patch tests reveal is the appropriate noise levels and ratings when comparing systems. There's a reason so many worked with Dragon at ISO 1280-1600 and that was *gasp* DSMC1. You need to compare comparable noise levels if you are looking similar results compared to Alexa. There's no reason ISO 800 should have equal stops across brands considering different sensor technologies, optical paths, and internal image pipeline.

Or just whack away at ISO 800 and don't clip and enjoy your cleaner shadow detail.
 
Nick Vera said:
Enjoy.

https://vimeo.com/showcase/5957128/...2jFvhF3sBcUEHjWpTYHxohICGcFCtFEAtBPbUhsVkvF24
Click to expand...

To me this is not a DR test. It is an image recovery test if you under/over expose of X amount of stops. And yes, it shows without question that Arri is great at that. But again, it's not DR as in "how many stops of DR you have in a correctly exposed image at the native/nominal/voodoo magic ISO setting".

And I agree with what Karim said : they are both good cameras. Just different flavors.
(but when looking at a lot of DR tests, RED's usually top more than 14 stops BUT Arri's have a more balanced dynamic range which make all those stops more easily usable)

Phil Holland said:
Sigh.

I've shown you all to the water, but none seem to have discovered to drink.

If you are looking for more stops allocated to highlights while maintaining a somewhat similar noise levels to ALEV III.

Take Monstro and equip these OLPFs with this combination:
- Low Light Optimzed: ISO 2000-2500
- Standard: ISO 1600-2000
- Skin Tone - Highlight: ISO 800-1280

With the LLO and STD you can likely even rate higher. STH at 1280, watch noise levels, that is an aggressive color science filter. Eats light, makes better color however.

Works with all of the cameras really. Ideally you'll be aiming at maximum resolution of each sensor. Helium and Monstro you can get away with 6K, perhaps 5K even on Monstro.

One of the things my patch tests reveal is the appropriate noise levels and ratings when comparing systems. There's a reason so many worked with Dragon at ISO 1280-1600 and that was *gasp* DSMC1. You need to compare comparable noise levels if you are looking similar results compared to Alexa. There's no reason ISO 800 should have equal stops across brands considering different sensor technologies, optical paths, and internal image pipeline.

Or just whack away at ISO 800 and don't clip and enjoy your cleaner shadow detail.
Click to expand...

Once I showed your Monstro VS Alexa LF video to someone claiming that RED color science was crap and that the skin tones were always to green. On one of the shots, it's actually the LF skin tones that look a bit more green than RED's. His answer was : "the guy obviously mislabelled the 2 images it's impossible to get those results otherwise"...

So even if I do think that the two cameras are equal in qualities and are just two differents flavors, I think that some are really stuborn. ^_^
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top