KOMODO....

[Juan Francisco Calero]

The real question to me is more "would you choose Komodo over Dragon-X 5K" ?

The real question to me is more "would you choose Komodo over Dragon-X 6K” ? :wink5:

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

SO how you see it possible, relatively using the same optics like CookeS5. What configuration for the Komodo cage wise YOU recommend. Did you ever put cinema optics with radio focus on something like Sony A7 ?

Well, no one said you HAD to put optics like that on the camera. Even if you totally can.
Soderbergh is using what looks like a Summicron-C lense which is slightly smaller than a Cooke S5 (and lighter too) but still

And on this photo I don't know what the lense is but seems light enough too. EDIT : seems to be a Sigma Cine Prime.

But the fact that it's using an RF Mount teels that it's most likely intended to be used with smaller lenses. As for action shoots, you don't really need radio focus. I never used radio focus I've always used a good old manual follow focus and it's totally doable on an A7III. And without a cage for that matter. Juste a baseplate with 15mm rods (and a Xeen 24mm T1.5 with the infamous Sigma MC-whatever EF to E-Mount converter in that specific case) to attach the FF. Worked like a charm. I expect Komodo to be the same in that aspect. I don't see why it wouldn't be.

The real question to me is more "would you choose Komodo over Dragon-X 6K” ? :wink5:

Haha !
Strickly as a B or C cam, yes I would. It's cheaper.
If you ask in a 'you can have only one camera' type of scenario, maybe not. I don't know. I can't know until I have seen footage. I edited and color graded a show shot on Dragon 6K (and obviously saw a lot of films and tv series shot with it) so I already know how it can perform and that I love the images it can produce, but Komodo in that aspect is still a big unknown. My only wish so far is that it does at least as good as an F55 did back in 2014 (2012 ? I can't remember when Sony released it) because it's the best global shutter camera I can think of right now.

 

[David Rasberry]

On the other end of the scale, one could mount an RF 24-105 f/4 and have a very good lightweight run and gun setup with little rigging needed.

I would love to see a pistol grip with record trigger for a handheld rig similar to this:

https://flic.kr/p/N5WYir

 

[Alex Stolpakov]

Yes and no. RED was doing 6K sensors well before everyone else.


And don't forget that RED is NOT making it to compete with Z-Cam or Blackmagic or whoever : it's intended to be used as a B or C cam on shoots with bigger REDs (or other brands). And YES, a huge part of the userbase will use the camera as an A-cam... Soderbergh is already doing so after all.

But the fact that it's using an RF Mount teels that it's most likely intended to be used with smaller lenses. As for action shoots, you don't really need radio focus. I never used radio focus I've always used a good old manual follow focus and it's totally doable on an A7III. And without a cage for that matter. Juste a baseplate with 15mm rods (and a Xeen 24mm T1.5 with the infamous Sigma MC-whatever EF to E-Mount converter in that specific case) to attach the FF. Worked like a charm. I expect Komodo to be the same in that aspect. I don't see why it wouldn't be.

On the other end of the scale, one could mount an RF 24-105 f/4 and have a very good lightweight run and gun setup with little rigging needed.

I would love to see a pistol grip with record trigger for a handheld rig similar to this:

https://flic.kr/p/N5WYir

ON which productions you saw cameras rigged like that?
How you will tell the DP his beloved HAWK ANAMORPHIC needed to be changed to 24-105 F/4 for the gimbal camera?
What kind of insurance focus puller need to have while shooting on cars, boats, running shots etc and how small he or she supposed to be for cranes and drones (speaking of action shoots without radio focus)?
Radio focus gives a lot of torque without a locking mount, a plane of focus can be shifted while operating. Also some elegant cage needed as even top handle cannot be usual as there is a monitor underneath... On scripted shows its always sound, sender, TC, and so on.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

ON which productions you saw cameras rigged like that?
How you will tell the DP his beloved HAWK ANAMORPHIC needed to be changed to 24-105 F/4 for the gimbal camera?
What kind of insurance focus puller need to have while shooting on cars, boats, running shots etc and how small he or she supposed to be for cranes and drones (speaking of action shoots without radio focus)?
Radio focus gives a lot of torque without a locking mount, a plane of focus can be shifted while operating. Also some elegant cage needed as even top handle cannot be usual as there is a monitor underneath...

Obviously, IF the shots put the focus puller in danger or on a drone or crane, you have to go radio.
And if you need any sort of radio focus pulling, where is the problem ? There is already a 'cage' (as seen on the second picture) which I assume is the infamous cradle from RED. And if you need a top handle, just put one. The screen on top won't be your only monitoring option (as desmonstrated on the two pictures). With the mounting points on top you can imagine something even like a DSMC2 Universal Handle could fit (I'm not saying it will at all, I'm saying something LIKE that type of handle)

As for which productions we have seen cameras rigged with photo lenses or stripped down of a LOT of bells and whistles how about Mad Max Fury Road and its use of Blackmagic cameras and Canon 5Ds for crash cams, POV cams and C/D cams ?

(oh what's that ? The focus puller can't join the camera operator for his own safety so they mounted radio stuff on 5Ds ? That's voodoo magic !... While on the Alexa they used a traditional FF...)

(Damn ! Poor DP they used a Canon L series lens...)

My point being : if they managed to do it on such a big project, anyone can.

 

[Alex Stolpakov]

Obviously, IF the shots put the focus puller in danger or on a drone or crane, you have to go radio.
And if you need any sort of radio focus pulling, where is the problem ? There is already a 'cage' (as seen on the second picture) which I assume is the infamous cradle from RED. And if you need a top handle, just put one. The screen on top won't be your only monitoring option (as desmonstrated on the two pictures). With the mounting points on top you can imagine something even like a DSMC2 Universal Handle could fit (I'm not saying it will at all, I'm saying something LIKE that type of handle)

As for which productions we have seen cameras rigged with photo lenses or stripped down of a LOT of bells and whistles how about Mad Max Fury Road and its use of Blackmagic cameras and Canon 5Ds for crash cams, POV cams and C/D cams ?

(oh what's that ? The focus puller can't join the camera operator for his own safety so they mounted radio stuff on 5Ds ? That's voodoo magic !... While on the Alexa they used a traditional FF...)

(Damn ! Poor DP they used a Canon L series lens...)

My point being : if they managed to do it on such a big project, anyone can.

SORRY maybe I am a bit unclear, but I am talking about Locking Mount, Production Friendly rigging, and not about exceptions when camera was used as GoPro. Lets say you dping anamorphic show with two heliums and want a third camera for gimbal work which is 25% of the show. Examples you given Komodo is not suitable as it is only a crash cam.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

What's the kit?

How do you feel about 6K? There are no 6K TV's.

Because it gives wicked sharp 4K. Gives me extra pixels to work with over a 4K delivery, etc.. Yes, 8K is the future and I already have two 8K cameras. Komodo is filling a gap in terms of size and other aspects.

But would you choose Komodo over Helium? 8K?

8K is the future, 6K is.... Competitive to BM and Others.

All about right tool for the job. Ideally, I would shoot everything on my 8K Monstro. But when there’s also a 6K, global shutter capable, RF mount equipped 4” cube that can probably be assembled into a 3 or 4 lens kit complete with media, batteries and monitor into a small over-shoulder bag or backpack that can live in my truck... Yeah, not going to pass that up.

If there were an 8K sensor for Komodo, I’d be all over that. ...Still dreaming of an IMAX/ 15-perf 70mm sized sensor with 12K+ resolution myself.

If it were that simple, RED would have an 8K+ sensor in Komodo. But that’s not all it’s about. Komodo exists to serve a niche in the market and it’s built to accommodate a wide variety of uses and maintain a specific price point. It has a purpose.

 

[David Rasberry]

ON which productions you saw cameras rigged like that?
How you will tell the DP his beloved HAWK ANAMORPHIC needed to be changed to 24-105 F/4 for the gimbal camera?
What kind of insurance focus puller need to have while shooting on cars, boats, running shots etc and how small he or she supposed to be for cranes and drones (speaking of action shoots without radio focus)?
Radio focus gives a lot of torque without a locking mount, a plane of focus can be shifted while operating. Also some elegant cage needed as even top handle cannot be usual as there is a monitor underneath... On scripted shows its always sound, sender, TC, and so on.

Solo shooters like me don’t really need most of that. Tripod, monopod, ENG shoulder style rig, small hand held rig. It isn’t necessary to rig for solo work like it is a cinema production. There are many different production styles. Gimbals are a defense against rolling shutter artifacts. Shooting with a global shutter camera is whole different experience hand held.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

SORRY maybe I am a bit unclear, but I am talking about Locking Mount, Production Friendly rigging, and not about exceptions when camera was used as GoPro. Lets say you dping anamorphic show with two heliums and want a third camera for gimbal work which is 25% of the show. Examples you given Komodo is not suitable as it is only a crash cam.

Locking mount : there are already RF to PL adapters
Production Friendly Rigging : there will be the cradle and we can expect every third party rig company will do something (and come on it's a freaking cube it's like the easiest shape to build stuff around even with a screen on top)

As for your example, there are a bunch of compact light-ish anamorphic lenses on the market already (Hawk V-Lite or Panavision G series for example) so again I don't see any difficulty (it might be harder to balance but not impossible IMO)

EDIT : I managed to balance and use a Canon C300MKII (2 CFAST, the screen unit, standard battery everything minus the side grip) + the same Xeen24mm I mentionned earlier on gen 1 DJI Ronin so the tiny Komodo + a Panavision G Series lense with batteries and a monitoring option should not be a problem for a good Movi gimbal.

 

[Alex Stolpakov]

Solo shooters like me don’t really need most of that. Tripod, monopod, ENG shoulder style rig, small hand held rig. It isn’t necessary to rig for solo work like it is a cinema production. There are many different production styles. Gimbals are a defense against rolling shutter artifacts. Shooting with a global shutter camera is whole different experience hand held.

I get when going to the beach to shoot surfers, girls in bikinis and a sunset you need monopod , good RF zoom , some batteries and a pack of beers.
I don't get how everybody saying its special in terms of production value as C or D camera and there is no way to put PL glass natively.
I don't buy gear , I rent it , and production company pays for that. How to convince Rental to buy some Komodos if all their optics is PL. Mount adapters without locking on the camera body don't give such a great result.
Gimbals are a defense against rolling shutter artifacts - that something new. I thought its a tendency to cut money on dolly and steadicam.

 

[Alex Stolpakov]

Locking mount : there are already RF to PL adapters
Production Friendly Rigging : there will be the cradle and we can expect every third party rig company will do something (and come on it's a freaking cube it's like the easiest shape to build stuff around even with a screen on top)

As for your example, there are a bunch of compact light-ish anamorphic lenses on the market already (Hawk V-Lite or Panavision G series for example) so again I don't see any difficulty (it might be harder to balance but not impossible IMO)

EDIT : I managed to balance and use a Canon C300MKII (2 CFAST, the screen unit, standard battery everything minus the side grip) + the same Xeen24mm I mentionned earlier on gen 1 DJI Ronin so the tiny Komodo + a Panavision G Series lense with batteries and a monitoring option should not be a problem for a good Movi gimbal.

Locking mount --- not locking glass like PL does , locking the adapter itself (aka on the camera itself).
Hawk® V-Lite Anamorphics is around 2,5 kilos. Its not about balance its about play between optics and camera.
Why wait for third party, why not to do it like on mini , imho Arri's cage is the best.

 

[Colton John McLaughlin]

Phil Holland has said that the Metabones PL to RF adapter can hold ~4lbs without a lens support, you need a heavier lens, then run 15mm rods and a lens support. No problem. People use adapters to PL all the time, especially with sony cameras that are E-Mount. Its not a problem, thats why there are such things like lens supports.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1148596-REG/ikan_ls_t05_lens_support_for_19mm.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1422153-REG/smallrig_851_15mm_carbon_fiber_rod_30cm.html

 

[Alex Stolpakov]

Phil Holland has said that the Metabones PL to RF adapter can hold ~4lbs without a lens support, you need a heavier lens, then run 15mm rods and a lens support. No problem. People use adapters to PL all the time, especially with sony cameras that are E-Mount. Its not a problem, thats why there are such things like lens supports.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1148596-REG/ikan_ls_t05_lens_support_for_19mm.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1422153-REG/smallrig_851_15mm_carbon_fiber_rod_30cm.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1186034-REG/sony_ilce7sm2_b_alpha_a7sii_mirrorless_digital.html ---BAD mount.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1506002-REG/sony_pxw_fx9v_pxw_fx9_xdcam_6k_full_frame.html ---GOOD mount.

Difference in locking mechanism.

 

[Colton John McLaughlin]

Ah gotcha, yes that would be a nice feature but at least for me it’s not necessary. Maybe Komodo Gen II? Or Komodo Pro?

 

[Nick Morrison]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1186034-REG/sony_ilce7sm2_b_alpha_a7sii_mirrorless_digital.html ---BAD mount.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1506002-REG/sony_pxw_fx9v_pxw_fx9_xdcam_6k_full_frame.html ---GOOD mount.

Difference in locking mechanism.

Dude, slow down. Do you seriously think RED would release the Komodo w/out figuring the mounts out?

They've designed mounts for ALL their other cameras.

We have to assume they are thinking about Komodo as an ECOSYSTEM.

I'm sure when Komodo goes live you'll be able to buy not just a brain, but a KIT.

RED has a lot invested in Komodo.

I have to imagine they are thinking everything through.

 

[Alex Stolpakov]

Dude, slow down. Do you seriously think RED would release the Komodo w/out figuring the mounts out?

They've designed mounts for ALL their other cameras.

We have to assume they are thinking about Komodo as an ECOSYSTEM.

I'm sure when Komodo goes live you'll be able to buy not just a brain, but a KIT.

RED has a lot invested in Komodo.

I have to imagine they are thinking everything through.

Like PL on ALL cameras...
Which Rental House will buy into ECOSYSTEM? ( if Already invested good amount in PL glass )
Don't you want to rent a second small tiny camera to you main camera shooting the same format and using the same lenses ?

 

[Phil Holland]

Like PL on ALL cameras...
Which Rental House will buy into ECOSYSTEM? ( if Already invested good amount in PL glass )
Don't you want to rent a second small tiny camera to you main camera shooting the same format and using the same lenses ?

I guess I'll show my rigid Komodo RF > PL Adapter setup shortly. It's easy, using a baseplate as you go into Komodo and that little lens support bracket on the mount adapter. That foot platform is there for a reason on the Metabones (and other adapters) as it's designed to help solve heavier and longer lenses. Much like using an actual lens support bracket via rods on longer zooms.

I don't know what the RF Mount "purely" is rated for yet, I suspect it's 8-12lbs total, but that always depends on lens length and weight. The most recent Metabones PL Mount, the one I went with after testing other options on the market btw, is surprisingly well built. 4-6lbs really isn't a problem so far on the mount. I'll toss a heavy lens on there to see if I can break it I guess. But honestly any sane person wouldn't do that.


If you're referring to the ecosystem, I think you're looking at Komodo differently than pretty much anybody who has seen it. If you need to make the camera really, really, really small Komodo + RF Lens. If you are looking to use a PL Adapter you can. If you are looking to use behind the lens ND you can. If you are looking to adapt nearly any lens to the camera, you can. That's sort of the purpose of going with that mount.

It's interesting RED didn't go with removable mounts here, but it's pretty easy to see why as Komodo is pretty much an out of the box experience. That will likely remain a concept for the larger bodies for years to come.

I guess if you are also looking for a very rigid PL mount without the use of a baseplate solution you can build one that physical mounts to the points on camera as well. Also not mind blowing to do.

And who knows, maybe RED will make a RF to PL Adapter at some point too. There's already a few decent solutions out there.

If there were any major red flags here you'd see me stamping my feet about it. I'm a bit of a lens nut.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

In other news, another image of the camera published by Jarred on Instagram featuring Vincent Laforet

 

[yann LHENORET]

In other news, another image of the camera published by Jarred on Instagram featuring Vincent Laforet

I don't see this monitor as a good sign...
-No power output from Komodo?
-Komodo needs three batteries to operate now?
-I'm sure it's temporary, but it means that the definitive monitor (the one using the pins...) is not ready yet. Maybe not a good sign.

Also, I would have focus on the camera...

 

[Mestizo Devon]

Minnesnowta needs one of these ASAP