KOMODO....

[Gregory Karydis]

I think it stands to reason that if you can get full frame 40fps then prob getting 120fps is probable at 1080 if not at 4k.

As Jarred mentioned here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?177459-KOMODO&p=1876215&viewfull=1#post1876215

You should be good then. Pretty safe to say after beating on the stormtrooper all day today you can expect full sensor 6k 40fps, 6k WS @ 50fps. Which means 4k @60fps shouldn't be a problem, but I have not actually tested that yet. And yes, that's all in global shutter mode.

If the tests were successful for 60fps @ 4K, I trust that 120fps @ 2K is very likely.

But it should also be a correlation to the Max and Min compression and possible data rates...

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

120fps at 4K I won't get my hopes that high but 60 yes. 120fps at 2K/1080p seems doable to me BUT I am not an engineer.

I assume the Komodo will crop its sensor for lower resolutions. 2K crop of a 6K S35 sensor is pretty dramatic. Here it is compared to full frame: http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare...keB=Kodak&modelB=Film&formatB=FF35 Still 3:2&

So even if it does do 120fps at 2K, I'm not sure how usable it will be. I think if you need 120fps often, this is not the camera for you.

The global shutter may also impose absolute frame rate limits. So I'm not sure if we can extrapolate frame rates at lower resolutions based on previous Red cameras.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

I assume the Komodo will crop its sensor for lower resolutions. 2K crop of a 6K S35 sensor is pretty dramatic. Here it is compared to full frame: http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare...keB=Kodak&modelB=Film&formatB=FF35 Still 3:2&

So even if it does do 120fps at 2K, I'm not sure how usable it will be. I think if you need 120fps often, this is not the camera for you.

The global shutter may also impose absolute frame rate limits. So I'm not sure if we can extrapolate frame rates at lower resolutions based on previous Red cameras.

Oh I was just answering to David Groves. My personal needs are plenty fine with what Jarred announced. (6K@40fps or 6KWS@50 are really fine for me and I'm not one to buy a camera on specs I won't really need... Haha like a smartphone in fact )

 

[Gregory Karydis]

I assume the Komodo will crop its sensor for lower resolutions. 2K crop of a 6K S35 sensor is pretty dramatic. Here it is compared to full frame: http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare...keB=Kodak&modelB=Film&formatB=FF35 Still 3:2&

So even if it does do 120fps at 2K, I'm not sure how usable it will be. I think if you need 120fps often, this is not the camera for you.

The global shutter may also impose absolute frame rate limits. So I'm not sure if we can extrapolate frame rates at lower resolutions based on previous Red cameras.

Not necessarily.
If you've used a Helium at 2K, then the Komodo 2K crop is comparable and a wee bit larger.
http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare...&modelB=Komodo+6K&formatB=2K+FF&focalLengths=

To me, it's all about how you plan on using it and what sort of glass you attach to it.
For 5K and below, this SpeedBooster makes a lot of sense!
https://www.metabones.com/products/details/MB_SPEF-EFR-BT1
And with the +1 stop of light for high FPS, this will be very useful!

Indeed, with Global Shutter we may have a lower maximum fps, but if there is a mode that allows to deactivate it, then all bets are off.
For me, Komodo is the best hand-held, run&gun, gimbal and drone Cinema Camera!

@Jarred and @Matt, should we expect some GDU handles and other goodies for Komodo or are the existing ones going to fit?

 

[David Rasberry]

I’d like to use my 16mm and S16 glass with Komodo. At 4.4u pixel size, it looks like 2.5k 16:9 would be pretty close to S16 crop.

Are all of the various cropped formats for Reds in Phil’s comparator tool actually available in the menus? Do the options vary with different models?

What are Komodo’s format choices likely to be?

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

To me, it's all about how you plan on using it and what sort of glass you attach to it.
For 5K and below, this SpeedBooster makes a lot of sense!
https://www.metabones.com/products/details/MB_SPEF-EFR-BT1
And with the +1 stop of light for high FPS, this will be very useful!

Sure. Just seems like quite a compromise to shoot with a 4x crop factor to get 120fps. I'm sure it will work in some situations.

I think that metabones speedbooster will be a brilliant addition to Komodo. Anyone know if there's a downside? Extra glass causing IQ issues? Also nice to have it on all the time as it will protect the sensor from dust.

Are you sure it won't cover 6K? 1.42 (Komodo crop factor) x 0.71 (speedbooster) = 1. So if my math is correct, the speedbooster will almost perfectly negate the crop factor on Komodo.

 

[Gregory Karydis]

Are you sure it won't cover 6K? 1.42 (Komodo crop factor) x 0.71 (speedbooster) = 1. So if my math is correct, the speedbooster will almost perfectly negate the crop factor on Komodo.

Unless an official accessory adapter is released specifically for the Komodo by GDU or Metabones, I will be getting one of these to try it out.

Komodo has a diagonal slightly larger than APS-C (for which the SpeedBooster is intended), so we may experience some vignetting at Full Frame 6K.
Time will tell...

 

[Lee Saxon]

Sure. Just seems like quite a compromise to shoot with a 4x crop factor to get 120fps. I'm sure it will work in some situations.

Extra glass causing IQ issues?
...
Are you sure it won't cover 6K? 1.42 (Komodo crop factor) x 0.71 (speedbooster) = 1. So if my math is correct, the speedbooster will almost perfectly negate the crop factor on Komodo.

The cool think about it is, can actually *improve* image quality, for the same reason downsampling in post does so. Take a lens designed with resolving power to project great detail across 36mm and squeeze that detail into 24mm...depends on the exact design of the lens, of course.

They're designed in most cases for 1.5x or smaller sensors, so there's a risk they wouldn't cover 1.42x. That's fairly close though, it may be worth trying, and it may depend on the lens. Also, there are now a few medium format speedboosters designed to go from 645 to FF35, theoretically you might be able to rig something together with one of those, you'd need another adapter on the front to change lens mount.

 

[Lee Saxon]

I have zero interest in the Z mount, personally. Which I guess means... that probably is not going to happen.

Can I ask why? I understand if it'd been a question of EF or F that the latter is more widely used especially in the cine side of things, and I gather that its protocols are more straightforward and well-known. But as to RF and Z both being totally new, I'd have said 'might as well choose the Z for its slightly wider throat and shorter flange back.'

 

[Han Vogen]

Can I ask why? I understand if it'd been a question of EF or F that the latter is more widely used especially in the cine side of things, and I gather that its protocols are more straightforward and well-known. But as to RF and Z both being totally new, I'd have said 'might as well choose the Z for its slightly wider throat and shorter flange back.'

This choice is pretty easy to understand. Canon is financially fine as a company and they will no doubt be releasing complete sets of RF mount cine lenses at some point. I think Red wanted to adopt a lens system that would take advantage of the best available glass also... A system with exciting glass. From my personal experience of having owned both the Nikon Z and the EOS R, I can tell you that Red made the right call. The new Canon RF glass is excellent, far superior to Nikons lackluster Z-mount offerings.

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

The cool think about it is, can actually *improve* image quality, for the same reason downsampling in post does so. Take a lens designed with resolving power to project great detail across 36mm and squeeze that detail into 24mm...depends on the exact design of the lens, of course.

They're designed in most cases for 1.5x or smaller sensors, so there's a risk they wouldn't cover 1.42x. That's fairly close though, it may be worth trying, and it may depend on the lens. Also, there are now a few medium format speedboosters designed to go from 645 to FF35, theoretically you might be able to rig something together with one of those, you'd need another adapter on the front to change lens mount.

Interesting point regarding improved IQ. Thanks Lee. If my numbers are right that speedbooster should make the Komodo behave exactly like a full frame camera with no crop factor or vignetting, since the crop factor with the speedbooster will be 1x.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

The cool think about it is, can actually *improve* image quality, for the same reason downsampling in post does so.

Um....no. IQ is IQ. Yes, it is possible to increase a resolution metric, say from 24 lp/mm to 36 lp/mm. But if the FF lens is only able to resolve X line pairs total, shrinking the image size down is not going to resolve more line pairs, which is IQ. It can at most resolve some fraction of that number in a smaller area. It is the fraction of remaining line pairs resolved, not the smallness of the area that determines IQ.

 

[Neil Abeynayake]

None of those Canon lenses are resolving at 8k full frame.

 

[Han Vogen]

None of those Canon lenses are resolving at 8k full frame.

Full frame 8K is 33MP... I think you’ll find that most of the recent L series lenses can easily resolve that. And the RF glass will need to be capable of 100MP plus to deal with the new sensors that are in the pipeline.

For reference Canon certified the below EF lenses as capable of resolving the 50.6MP images from the Canon 5DS and 5DSR. By all accounts the new RF glass is far superior to EF lenses:

https://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/News/2015/Canon-5Ds-Recommended-List-Source.jpg

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

Um....no. IQ is IQ. Yes, it is possible to increase a resolution metric, say from 24 lp/mm to 36 lp/mm. But if the FF lens is only able to resolve X line pairs total, shrinking the image size down is not going to resolve more line pairs, which is IQ. It can at most resolve some fraction of that number in a smaller area. It is the fraction of remaining line pairs resolved, not the smallness of the area that determines IQ.

Surely if the speedbooster increases the lp/mm that will result in an improvement in IQ for sensor sizes smaller than what the lens was designed for? I agree the lens itself won't resolve more line pairs, but more line pairs will be projected onto the sensor. Of course this assumes the speedbooster is ideal.

 

[Craig Lees]

IMHO The biggest issue shooting crop sensor 2k on red is not just the crop factor but the fact the image gets massively soft and super noisy. On MX and dragon, i'd dial down to the iso to 250-320 and sharpen in post or shoot at higher res & use twixtor / just use a cheapo FS700 (damn those things are going used for like £1400 used now!).

5k 50/60p would be magic and then lots of people will be using them for VR if they can take genlock, go on Jared, do it! Then watch the vr guys buy them in droves! ; ) Xmas wish.

The Komodo image size is going to work just great with Cooke SP and s4i glass too.

Once someone makes a super simple all-in one quick release shoulder mount with rods solution with rear rod mount production module for more IO and TC etc, it'll be interesting to see how much it gets adopted on sets, much like what the Alexa mini did to the XT's for narrative work. You could buy two, keep one stripped down for gimbal /action shots and B cam and the rig cam as A.

Arri still dominating the narrative market here though in the UK sigh ...

Craig Lees
UK

 

[David Rasberry]

f

Full frame 8K is 33MP... I think you’ll find that most of the recent L series lenses can easily resolve that. And the RF glass will need to be capable of 100MP plus to deal with the new sensors that are in the pipeline.

For reference Canon certified the below EF lenses as capable of resolving the 50.6MP images from the Canon 5DS and 5DSR. By all accounts the new RF glass is far superior to EF lenses:


https://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/News/2015/Canon-5Ds-Recommended-List-Source.jpg

IMO the ideal result is for the optics, lens/modifiers/olpf, to be the limiting factor on image resolution anyway. That way you avoid nyquist limit artifacts.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Ho ho ho ho I know at least one lense that I want to try on a Komodo !

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

Are you sure it won't cover 6K? 1.42 (Komodo crop factor) x 0.71 (speedbooster) = 1. So if my math is correct, the speedbooster will almost perfectly negate the crop factor on Komodo.

Aren’t Komodo supposed to be more like 1.3 crop...?

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Aren’t Komodo supposed to be more like 1.3 crop...?

1.41 (43/30.56=1.407068062827225)