KOMODO....

[Phil Holland]

WHAT IF we could get a dual V-Mount or Gold Mount battery plate that works with two dummy batteries so for like documentary shooters or just users who want to build up their Komodo rig can have like a huge battery life ? Or maybe for people who have a few accessories that need power around the camera ? (like a monitor and a wireless follow focus)

That's certainly getting into larger camera territory, but there's nothing stopping you from rigging Komodo that way via rods and a battery plate feeding into the DC IN. Sure you could shark fin that and get some crazy run times.

We don't know the power draw on Komodo yet, but Jarred said it runs for a long while on BP975s which are only about 55Wh each and it can hold two of those while maintaining the small height form factor.

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

Is guessing 30 fps @ 6K, 40 fps @ 5K and 60 fps @ 4K a qualified guess for Komodo?

I'm still hoping for 50fps at 5K, but I think your guess is probably a bit more realistic.

 

[David Rasberry]

Going back to the fps question. Would you say that there's a limit in the sensor that unables higher fps? Or limitations in cooling, or in processing? If it's locked down by the hardware, would it be possible to get the fps numbers you're going for? Is guessing 30 fps @ 6K, 40 fps @ 5K and 60 fps @ 4K a qualified guess for Komodo?

If it is truly a global shutter sensor , then the frame rates would be limited by the sensor itself and how fast it can dump a frame of uncompressed data during the dark interval between exposures.

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

If it is truly a global shutter sensor , then the frame rates would be limited by the sensor itself and how fast it can dump a frame of uncompressed data during the dark interval between exposures.

Does that mean a 360 degree shutter would be impossible with a global shutter sensor?

 

[Curren Sheldon]

I'm very excited about Komodo, but am mostly concerned with the crop in 4K (or even 5K). I get that 6K acquisition to a 4k output is the way to go for a lot of people, but shooting in 4k on a Red is still amazing image quality and you save a ton of storage space compared to 6k. The RF Mount, the batteries, the media, PDAF, size, form factor, and pretty much everything else about this camera seems almost exactly what I'd want (frame rates might be a bit disappointing - we'll see), but a 1.8x - 2x+ crop in 4K might be a bit too much.

It's definitely a pretty crazy camera world right now with C500, 1DXIII, Z-Cams, FX9, S1H, etc right now - going to be updating all gear, so the sooner this thing is announced, the better. Looking forward to seeing how it shakes out and it is on the top of my list right now. Let's see what shakes out.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Guys, Jarred did NOT say it is a global shutter sensor. It is a rolling shutter, just a really really fast one.

 

[David Rasberry]

Guys, Jarred did NOT say it is a global shutter sensor. It is a rolling shutter, just a really really fast one.

He didn't say either way yet for sure. He just said they solved the problem. There are CMOS sensors on the market capable of being programmed for global shutter operation, but it comes at the expense of frame rates and DR/ read noise levels. The Fairchild sensor used in the AJA CION is programmed for global shutter, the same sensor in the BMCC 4K cameras isn't.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

He didn't say either way yet for sure. He just said they solved the problem. There are CMOS sensors on the market capable of being programmed for global shutter operation, but it comes at the expense of frame rates and DR/ read noise levels. The Fairchild sensor used in the AJA CION is programmed for global shutter, the same sensor in the BMCC 4K cameras isn't.

No, he didn't actually said it was either one or the other but he did say, a certain number of pages ago on this very thread, that it is so much a pain in the butt to make a good global shutter sensor (with good DR and stuff) that no one is making/using it. (I'm obviously not quoting)

As for the BMCC 4K camera, I'm pretty sure it was a global shutter. Unless you wanted to say "Pocket 4K" and then I think the sensor inside is made by Sony, no ? Isn't it the same one as the Panasonic GH5S ?

 

[Brian Pascale]

I appreciate that asI never used my Hydrogen other than to test it. It went back into the box after that and has been sitting there ever since.

that doesn't completely suck. We now just may be able to do something we couldn't before... two things actually... so it could actually turn into a really good thing... a sliver lining.

And yes Komodo discount for those that bought Hydrogens before the module was cancelled is still in play. And more importantly for some.... the pole position.



Heh Heh I shot that chris bell photo on Komodo with the Minolta 85 + adapter

 

[Thad K Donovan]

I am brand new to the forum, but I've been watching this thread for weeks. I thought I'd throw in my two cents as someone who seems to have slightly different needs than many of the camera ops I've read here. It might even help RED address the market segment that I am in.

I film corporate, tourism, and indie film projects. They are good quality, but not Hollywood quality. I have mostly used Sony's FS7, but have switched to Blackmagic this year. I have two P4Ks and one P6K. I keep one P4K permanently mounted on a Ronin gimbal, the other P4K permanently mounted on a 600mm lens, and the P6K for all other uses. So think about that for a second. I bought two additional cameras purely to avoid the inconvenience of having to change lenses and rigs. That is incredible that we can do that these days.

For all my needs, the P4K/P6K are plenty good enough in terms of quality. My lenses are more of a problem than the cameras (Rokinon Cine DS set). Having said that, I would love to advance to the next level in terms of image quality. That's where RED seems to separate itself from that lower tier. Assuming that is true, I am hoping that the Komodo can be my new A cam. I know for a lot of you, it would be more of a B cam or a specialty/crash cam, but for me it would be my A. I could also see buying multiple Komodos over time. I totally understand that simply upgrading sensors/codecs isn't going to deliver Hollywood quality in and of itself, but I know where the (small) limitations are in my current equipment.

Most of the RED cameras are out of my price range. I could justify the Raven, but in terms of features, specs, I don't feel like I'd be gaining much on the FS7. Yes, the IQ would be a bit better, but I'm holding out for an even smaller form factor via the Komodo. I never use the FS7 any more because the BMPCs match or exceed it in terms of quality and they are much more convenient to use.

My personal wish list for the Komodo:
6K
48 fps or better (I do lots of slow mo, so it's mandatory)
whatever the best RED codec/color science available, otherwise Braw is plenty good for me
As good or better low light performance relative to BMPCs
S35 or better (FF preferred). Anything less than S35 and I'm out

I don't care about an integrated monitor (other than something for changing settings). I have several good external monitors. I also don't care about Hydrogen unless it does something magical that my current phone or monitors can't do.

Built-in XLR audio of some sort would be nice (the BMPCs have mini-xlrs which work great for my needs). However, I'd be fine with only scratch audio as I'd use the Komodo mostly for higher end work or indie films which would have separately recorded sound.

So I'm crossing my fingers that Komodo fits the bill. So far it looks promising. I know RED may not target my segment, but to me there's no reason why they shouldn't. I want the best image quality I can afford in a compact package. If a RED product suddenly becomes affordable and compact, I'm a potential customer, and there's a lot more like me out there.

 

[C. Burkhart]

WHAT IF we could get a dual V-Mount or Gold Mount battery plate that works with two dummy batteries so for like documentary shooters or just users who want to build up their Komodo rig can have like a huge battery life ? Or maybe for people who have a few accessories that need power around the camera ? (like a monitor and a wireless follow focus)
Something that would look like this (sorry, I know it's an Alexa on the image) :

Never apologize for having an Alexa on your shoulder.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Never apologize for having an Alexa on your shoulder.

Actually, I googled the image

 

[Ryan Genova]

At what point does the sensor readout speed of a rolling shutter "fix" the rolling shutter effects for most scenarios? The Alexa has been tested at 6ms in 2K, which is quite a bit faster than just about everything else, and still shows fairly significant and noticeable effects of rolling shutter in some instances. It would be quite impressive for a 6K sensor to beat that readout speed. That's the only thing that makes me think that Komodo had a global shutter. That and the clue Jarred gave a while back saying that one of the things about the sensor couldn't be expressed in numbers.

In the end I guess it doesn't really matter whether its a rolling or global shutter if the problems of either have been solved, other than for the sake of nerdy discussion :laugh:

 

[David Rasberry]

One of Sony’s DSLR’s has a superfast near global sensor, I don’t remember which model, but it is for action sports. Readout is sub 1ms.

 

[Phil Holland]

Slow Rolling Shutter = very bad news.

Decently fast readout times with Rolling Shutter = pretty ideal for motion picture use.

However, in the land of handheld, gimbal, and faster movement filmmaking Rolling Shutter is a real pain even at higher readouts.

Global Shutter solves those concerns in those instances, which happens to be how a lot of filmmakers work these days.

Also, if Komodo's image quality is there at speed, it potentially be used in instances where things like "headless" cameras exist in today's workflows.

DSMC2 is small, but this has the potential to be really small.

The Komodo picture is becoming pretty clear to me. I have a few hopes/wants, but I 100% see where this fits in.

 

[Ryan Genova]

The RX0 II, a9, and a couple other Sony cameras have an "Anti-Distortion Shutter", but it is only for stills as far as I can tell. From what I can find, they still exhibit some rolling shutter effects in 4K.

 

[andrewhake]

Why are people obsessed with putting giant batteries on this thing? lol. ffs.

Jarred already mentioned this thing will run for a a very very long time on the two small batteries, which are hot swappable. I'm sure you can easily get more run time per volume/weight of batteries with these smaller battery types. It was like that with DSMC2 as well. Red made us a tiny compact camera and immediately people were trying to turn them back into the giant monstrosities of the past.

I am so glad the Red team has their own ideas and plans and doesn't only listen to the community. @_@

 

[Jim Skinner]

How fast can I give Jarred my money?

How fast can I give Jarred my money?

No seriously, where do we pre-order. I don’t see anything on Red.com for this. Take my money Jarred!

 

[Nick Morrison]

Why are people obsessed with putting giant batteries on this thing? lol. ffs.

Jarred already mentioned this thing will run for a a very very long time on the two small batteries, which are hot swappable. I'm sure you can easily get more run time per volume/weight of batteries with these smaller battery types. It was like that with DSMC2 as well. Red made us a tiny compact camera and immediately people were trying to turn them back into the giant monstrosities of the past.

I am so glad the Red team has their own ideas and plans and doesn't only listen to the community. @_@

Well if you start adding accessories those small batteries are going to die quick.

Also if you are on a job with other cameras/equipment, its helpful to have everything standardized to one battery type.

 

[Phil Holland]

Why are people obsessed with putting giant batteries on this thing? lol. ffs.

Agreed, but I'll play super devils advocate

Long Duration Live Streaming or Doc filmmakers who can't stop for nobody.

But 100% agree, I'll be exploiting how small I can make Komodo more than anything.