KOMODO....

[Andrew Reese]

If Komodo has 16+ stops dynamic range, redcode RAW, S35 sensor or larger, and 4k/120fps (with minimal or no crop) it would be extremely disruptive to the market. The 6K and resolution race isn't really what interests me about Komodo, it's more about it's size and if it can do HFR for Gimbal / Crash Cam / Action work. I believe many are in need of a cam with those specs for a dedicated Gimbal Rig as it becomes tiring stripping down a DSMC2 body and throwing it on a Ronin / Movi (with Readyrig / Easyrig) and going back and forth between stabilized and handheld as a single operator. I have an exact need for a cam like that and Komodo with these specs would also play very well matching as an overall B-cam to my gemini at half the price. If it has Redcode Raw, decent dynamic range, and can do 4k/120 I am definitely getting one.

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

If Komodo has 16+ stops dynamic range, redcode RAW, S35 sensor or larger, and 4k/120fps (with minimal or no crop) it would be extremely disruptive to the market. The 6K and resolution race isn't really what interests me about Komodo, it's more about it's size and if it can do HFR for Gimbal / Crash Cam / Action work. I believe many are in need of a cam with those specs for a dedicated Gimbal Rig as it becomes tiring stripping down a DSMC2 body and throwing it on a Ronin / Movi (with Readyrig / Easyrig) and going back and forth between stabilized and handheld as a single operator. I have an exact need for a cam like that and Komodo with these specs would also play very well matching as an overall B-cam to my gemini at half the price. If it has Redcode Raw, decent dynamic range, and can do 4k/120 I am definitely getting one.

Exactly, a small and light red camera for gimball work would be good sent. But I truly hope it have a god autofocus as I would probely use that 80% when on a gimball.

 

[jordan levy]

If Komodo has 16+ stops dynamic range, redcode RAW, S35 sensor or larger, and 4k/120fps (with minimal or no crop) it would be extremely disruptive to the market. The 6K and resolution race isn't really what interests me about Komodo, it's more about it's size and if it can do HFR for Gimbal / Crash Cam / Action work. I believe many are in need of a cam with those specs for a dedicated Gimbal Rig as it becomes tiring stripping down a DSMC2 body and throwing it on a Ronin / Movi (with Readyrig / Easyrig) and going back and forth between stabilized and handheld as a single operator. I have an exact need for a cam like that and Komodo with these specs would also play very well matching as an overall B-cam to my gemini at half the price. If it has Redcode Raw, decent dynamic range, and can do 4k/120 I am definitely getting one.

so your bet is on better sepcs then the Raven? hmmmm. im also not getting hopes up for good autofcus. I think the two appealing things for me are 4k sdi out for stage rigs, and the battery situation, which is the one weakness of the BM 6k and 4k cameras.

 

[Misha Engel]

so your bet is on better sepcs then the Raven? hmmmm. im also not getting hopes up for good autofcus. I think the two appealing things for me are 4k sdi out for stage rigs, and the battery situation, which is the one weakness of the BM 6k camera.

2 hours on a battery is acceptable for most shooters.
4k 12G-SDI out is great feature (live shooting, ext. rec., focussing on a 4k screen, etc..).

 

[Phil Holland]

2 hours on a battery is acceptable for most shooters.

Based on my briefest experience with the BMDPCC6K a couple days ago, you're looking at about ~30 min for general use depending on your filming habits. Lower if you just have it on a bunch before rolling. Straight roll is about 45min on a fresh LP-E6.

I'd recommend the grip or an external solution if you are looking for or longer run times. The grip wasn't around, but based on shear math you'll be floating in the 1-1.5 hour range w/ the grip. Loose estimates if you go the V-Mount route, likely around ~5.5 hours via a 150Wh battery, ~< 3.5 hours on a 98Wh battery. Shave 10 min or so off that for variation in batteries (some aren't exactly those capacities).

There's a broad variety of different batteries out there in these form factors and mounts or the internal cam and grip, but that should be within a reasonable margin for what's out there.

You'll draw more juice depending on the media you use. Longest life will be SD, then CFFast, than external SSD leading to likely the shortest run time depending on the drive. I'll dive deeper if I ever am asked to for whatever reason.


Back on topic Komodo-wise, we don't know jack diddly squat about runtime yet. Jarred said "hours and hours and hours" or something like that. I do think it's incredibly smart to have hot swap right on there and you can choose a few different sizes to make your Komodo electric lizard booty as big or as small as you want it. Sounds like you can even run off of one "cheek"... erm... battery if really trying to save on weight. Yes I am coining the term battery buns

 

[Savannah Miller]

Based on my briefest experience with the BMDPCC6K a couple days ago, you're looking at about ~30 min for general use depending on your filming habits. Lower if you just have it on a bunch before rolling. Straight roll is about 45min on a fresh LP-E6.


Back on topic Komodo-wise, we don't know jack diddly squat about runtime yet. Jarred said "hours and hours and hours" or something like that. I do think it's incredibly smart to have hot swap right on there and you can choose a few different sizes to make your Komodo electric lizard booty as big or as small as you want it. Sounds like you can even run off of one "cheek"... erm... battery if really trying to save on weight. Yes I am coining the term battery buns

I think Misha is referring to the battery life using the Battery grip, which most people don't own. With a larger battery like Sony NP-F you get almost 3 hrs on the Pocket 6K. The battery and power draw may not be that different from the RED Komodo, depending on what batteries they are referring to that last "hours and hours and hours"

 

[Phil Holland]

I think Misha is referring to the battery life using the Battery grip, which most people don't own. With a larger battery like Sony NP-F you get almost 3 hrs on the Pocket 6K.

They are the smaller L-Series in there, basically going from one internal "approximate" 2000 Mah battery to two "approximate" 2000 Mah batteries. It will be just double the life you are getting off the single battery solution w/ that grip. The Tilta you can use the bigger beasts it appears and go from there. BMD states "around 2 hours". I'm mostly saying under typical conditions based on what I saw a couple days ago, 1-1.5 hours w/ that grip.

 

[Savannah Miller]

They are the smaller L-Series in there, basically going from one internal "approximate" 2000 Mah battery to two "approximate" 2000 Mah batteries. It will be just double the life you are getting off the single battery solution w/ that grip. The Tilta you can use the bigger beasts it appears and go from there. BMD states "around 2 hours". I'm mostly saying under typical conditions based on what I saw a couple days ago, 1-1.5 hours w/ that grip.

I think there's also a power difference. The pocket 4K shuts off at 6.3v? if you have voltage displayed instead of percentage of battery, so the LP-E6 batteries die earlier than they should. The Sony Batteries I believe can last longer. I think the LP E6 just is not powerful enough and some juice goes wasted.

 

[Aaron Lochert]

...and you can choose a few different sizes to make your Komodo electric lizard booty as big or as small as you want it.

I imagine Sir Mix-A-Lot would have some thoughts on the matter.

 

[Misha Engel]

I think Misha is referring to the battery life using the Battery grip, which most people don't own. With a larger battery like Sony NP-F you get almost 3 hrs on the Pocket 6K. The battery and power draw may not be that different from the RED Komodo, depending on what batteries they are referring to that last "hours and hours and hours"

That is correct and when people don't own one, they can buy it, it's only $245, The LP-E6 ones are nice when you use a drone or other small duration shoots and a big 12V whatever battery(via D-tap) when you want to shoot all day. You have many options:
1 lightest with the LP-E6.
2 medium with the grip.
3 Bulky with a battery via D-tap.
4 Power grid.

 

[jordan levy]

That is correct and when people don't own one, they can buy it, it's only $245, The LP-E6 ones are nice when you use a drone or other small duration shoots and a big 12V whatever battery(via D-tap) when you want to shoot all day. You have many options:
1 lightest with the LP-E6.
2 medium with the grip.
3 Bulky with a battery via D-tap.
4 Power grid.

so, yeah, again, i said the weakness of the BM camera is the battery situation. the grip is an accessory, not the camera itself. i also dont think its a great solution with how little power it increases compared to the awkwardness of the size and shape. though i might be taking advantage of the 4k version on my next stage show in a couple of weeks as a rigged on stage camera with house power and a drive, it will be nice to shoot raw for over an hour.
but for me, id like to use internal batteries and internal recording for my personal project camera, less stuff.

 

[David Rasberry]

Um, this directly contradicts the founding principle of RED, which was to be a disruptive force in the industry and breaking the stranglehold of those companies who were too much using premium pricing in a way that discriminated against the little guy with big dreams.

I will not disagree that making high-quality cinema kit is not nearly as cheap at the end of the day as one might believe, and I will not disagree that certain cost-cutting decisions can fundamentally re-categorize a product's position.

It could be that I and other have been duped into believing that RED is all about disruption and independent filmmakers but that they are in fact merely exploiting our self-delusion by charging premium pricing and laughing all the way to the bank. But I don't think that's RED's strategic intent. I believe they are truly trying to be innovators, willing to bleed themselves as much as they bleed their customers in the pursuit of products that really do open new doors to an ever-expanding market of content creators.

Red is technologically disruptive. Choosing to do so at the middle to high end of the serious pro market because that is what best works for them as a business isn’t a negative.

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

Hmm...Jarred has been very quiet. No posts in quite some time, and yet we’re now at 68 pages of discussion. I’m sure everyone would welcome some new details!

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

Yes, full specs and price would be most welcome. I’m actively selling gear to partially pay for my next camera, and it’s down to 3 choices for me: Varicam LT, used Scarlet W or Komodo. If Komodo turns out to be what I think it is it will shoot to the top of the list because of the power and media choices. Not worried about image quality or codec choice with RED.

I know a lot of people disagree with me on this board (not so much other places), but proprietary media is something that I’ll only deal with if there’s no other option (unless it’s reasonably priced, which it never is). I say that as a former RED owner.

 

[andrewhake]

If Komodo has 16+ stops dynamic range, redcode RAW, S35 sensor or larger, and 4k/120fps (with minimal or no crop) it would be extremely disruptive to the market. The 6K and resolution race isn't really what interests me about Komodo, it's more about it's size and if it can do HFR for Gimbal / Crash Cam / Action work. I believe many are in need of a cam with those specs for a dedicated Gimbal Rig as it becomes tiring stripping down a DSMC2 body and throwing it on a Ronin / Movi (with Readyrig / Easyrig) and going back and forth between stabilized and handheld as a single operator. I have an exact need for a cam like that and Komodo with these specs would also play very well matching as an overall B-cam to my gemini at half the price. If it has Redcode Raw, decent dynamic range, and can do 4k/120 I am definitely getting one.

Couldn't agree more! I LOVE the form factor from what we have seen so far.

 

[Misha Engel]

so, yeah, again, i said the weakness of the BM camera is the battery situation. the grip is an accessory, not the camera itself. i also dont think its a great solution with how little power it increases compared to the awkwardness of the size and shape. though i might be taking advantage of the 4k version on my next stage show in a couple of weeks as a rigged on stage camera with house power and a drive, it will be nice to shoot raw for over an hour.
but for me, id like to use internal batteries and internal recording for my personal project camera, less stuff.

Good point, so you wouldn't buy/use/rent a camera with a V-Mount or D-tap battery or modular camera's like the Alexa Mini(LF), Red's entire Range, Z-CAM, etc..
Well ,we all have our preferences.

 

[Mike P.]

I dunno, BMD battery argument seems kinda nitpicky to me. Using a Tilta handle on either Pocket, an NPF970 lasts ~3hours in additional to the LP-E6 in the camera that lasts another 45mins (perfect for hot swapping). The Tilta handle is only $200 compared to the BMD one that's $250... OH and it has Nucleus Nano focus control built-in. And if you don't want a Tilta handle, there are NPF-to-12v plates for like ~$30. And if that doesn't float your boat, you could carry 10 LP-E6s (~450mins/7.5hours) in a cargo pants pocket and they'd probably weigh less than a single 90wh mini v-mount... Don't forget, it's an instant-on camera (boot time is like ~3seconds.)

The BMD p4k and p6k don't have bad battery life, so long as you choose the right battery. And since you're saving so much on the camera, what's the problem with spending another couple hundred bucks if you need endless/continuous runtime?

There's also a Ronin-to-Pocket cable, so you can power it through the gimble (and apparently the next firmware will have camera control through it as well... fingers crossed for internal-motor focus control.)

 

[Neil Abeynayake]

I dunno, BMD battery argument seems kinda nitpicky to me. Using a Tilta handle on either Pocket, an NPF970 lasts ~3hours in additional to the LP-E6 in the camera that lasts another 45mins (perfect for hot swapping). The Tilta handle is only $200 compared to the BMD one that's $250... OH and it has Nucleus Nano focus control built-in. And if you don't want a Tilta handle, there are NPF-to-12v plates for like ~$30. And if that doesn't float your boat, you could carry 10 LP-E6s (~450mins/7.5hours) in a cargo pants pocket and they'd probably weigh less than a single 90wh mini v-mount... Don't forget, it's an instant-on camera (boot time is like ~3seconds.)

The BMD p4k and p6k don't have bad battery life, so long as you choose the right battery. And since you're saving so much on the camera, what's the problem with spending another couple hundred bucks if you need endless/continuous runtime?

There's also a Ronin-to-Pocket cable, so you can power it through the gimble (and apparently the next firmware will have camera control through it as well... fingers crossed for internal-motor focus control.)

All good points Mike. Also, look at the price point. less than $2500.00 for the body no matter how awkward it looks. And I saw an IG post last night of the BM camera with a Tilta tilt monitor in the back of their cage. Maybe that's what RED is planning to do with the Hydrogen.

My Hydrogens are not connected with any phone providers. We tried and had issues and that was it. As of now one stays in the box and sometimes I take the other just to take a random picture or two whenever I visit a place of interest and too lazy to pick up our Canon DSLR out of the case. I gave one to my son (who is an Astro-Physics major) and he returned it a few days later and purchased a Samsung S10 plus or something. I don't know about others but for me, they are just a waste of money at this point.

However, I like working with the DSMC2 Helium and hope RED does not make them obsolete with their next incantation inducing us to buy into that form factor in order to preserve their motto.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Don't forget, it's an instant-on camera (boot time is like ~3seconds.)

The Pocket 6K does too many things right, I think it's gonna be a hard sell for the Komodo if it can't meet things like these. The fact that it does all of what it can do, together with having such a low price that it enables you to get A LOT of side-gear to beef up the cam into production standards... and still be able to get two of them at slightly above the price of one Komodo... Red needs to really nail this thing.

 

[gabrielB]

The Pocket 6K does too many things right, I think it's gonna be a hard sell for the Komodo if it can't meet things like these. The fact that it does all of what it can do, together with having such a low price that it enables you to get A LOT of side-gear to beef up the cam into production standards... and still be able to get two of them at slightly above the price of one Komodo... Red needs to really nail this thing.

You've shared similar comments over this thread. I just don't understand the BMD vs RED cameras discussion/argument. They are tools aimed at different markets; I don't think RED is even trying to compete with BMD.

Here are some major things we expect the Komodo will bring to the table: higher DR, better frame rates options, better color, proper IR filter and no moire/aliasing (i.e. adequate OLPF) and build quality. These are all VERY important and justify a more premium pricing. Things like faster boot times are secondary.

I have the pocket cam and I like it. It's pretty awesome for the price and yes you can capture really nice footage with it. But it's a little toy. BMD sells their cameras to people who dream of making cinema. Komodo is already being used by people making cinema.