KOMODO....

[Phil Holland]

IWith the size you would expect the ability to genlock and sync multiples of these together. The look ideal for smaller 360 rigs and 3D.

Same initial thoughts Paul, though my only realistic concern involving this is that it's RED's least expensive camera to date, so it's hard to know exactly what they can implement at this price point.

You are 100% correct though, this form factor is ideal for various multiple camera setups or used in 360 rigs, arrays, 3D, and likely/maybe H4V w/ 4X. Though my first thoughts all go to single cam use, b-cam, crash cam, documentary, etc...

I do think the EXT port "does stuff", we just don't know what stuff it does. We haven't seen the top, we don't know about any sort of wireless fun either. I suspect there's more goodies to learn about.

 

[paul ross jones]

Has anyone worked out the size of the Komodo sensor? This will be the main feature what will sell me on this camera, I really need full frame to match my photography exactly.
I searched these posts but couldn't find anything.

If not, I might pop down to my local camera store and shoot the canon Eos-r at the same angle and see if this shows anything.

With all these cameras being announced, there still is very little option for full frame and options with built in ND's (which I'm sold on). I tried the Mavo LF and this is the best so far for my needs, but hopefully the Komodo be a better option.

Paul

 

[Samir Patel]

Just tell me will this Komodo balance on a ronin-mx right out of the box? All I need to know.

 

[Stefan Kraus]

Just tell me will this Komodo balance on a ronin-mx right out of the box? All I need to know.

I’m sure it will, I balanced a Red DSMC2 with a 21mm Zeiss on the ronin mx before

 

[Adam Johnson]

Komodo will be a legit “A” camera. It may not have the expansion ability of DSMC2 or DSMC3, but if it has a full frame 6K “Gemini-ish” sensor it will be on back order for a long while...Timecode or no timecode

 

[Andrew R Lewis]

Komodo will be a legit “A” camera. It may not have the expansion ability of DSMC2 or DSMC3, but if it has a full frame 6K “Gemini-ish” sensor it will be on back order for a long while...Timecode or no timecode

This doesn’t feel like a FF sensor - I would be surprised. But I think the same still stands, S35 is as big a market if not bigger.

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

If it’s in fact a S35 sensor, and not larger, then it is quite possible to use a speedbooster/focal reducer of some kind to make it resemble FF.. If this is the case then I hope there will come a new speedbooster for Canon RF with e-ND filters in it too (maybe something like the e-ND Z-CAM will use)

 

[Nick Morrison]

My guess is it's Super 35 or S35+.

Either one is a win.

But if I were a betting man I'd say S35+. Almost exact same size as Dragon.

I think RED knows that cameras are getting smaller, and sensors bigger. I'd be surprised if they want with a small-ish/normal-ish sensor.

But who knows.

 

[David Rasberry]

If the 5 micron pixel size of Monstro and Dragon-X is the basis for the new sensor, 6K Komodo sensor would be the same size as Gemini 5k, 30.72 mm x 18 mm (Diagonal: 35.61 mm) S35+. To me this seems to be the most likely solution. a 22 megapixel sensor.

Personally I think FF35 format is overrated for motion work, especially under low light conditions or covering fast action. Razor thin depth of field is a real nuisance under those conditions, forcing one to shoot higher than optimum ISO's for best image quality in low light or with smaller apertures to get adequate depth of field for following action.

But I'm a die hard S16mm/1" format fan as the sweet spot for doc work.

 

[Björn Benckert]

If the 5 micron pixel size of Monstro and Dragon-X is the basis for the new sensor, 6K Komodo sensor would be the same size as Gemini 5k, 30.72 mm x 18 mm (Diagonal: 35.61 mm) S35+. To me this seems to be the most likely solution. a 22 megapixel sensor.

Personally I think FF35 format is overrated for motion work, especially under low light conditions or covering fast action. Razor thin depth of field is a real nuisance under those conditions, forcing one to shoot higher than optimum ISO's for best image quality in low light or with smaller apertures to get adequate depth of field for following action.

But I'm a die hard S16mm/1" format fan as the sweet spot for doc work.

As we get lower and lower noise levels and better and better sensitivityin the sensor tech world you are talking about a moving target. If you let say got a 6400iso FF sensor then that alows you to shoot at way higher stops and get the same dof as a 800iso s35 sensor that demands lower iso and more open lens.

 

[David Rasberry]

As we get lower and lower noise levels and better and better sensitivityin the sensor tech world you are talking about a moving target. If you let say got a 6400iso FF sensor then that alows you to shoot at way higher stops and get the same dof as a 800iso s35 sensor that demands lower iso and more open lens.

But small apertures degrade image quality by diffraction limited resolution and reduced modulation transfer function of the lens . The sensor itself before any kind of gain or processing is applied has a hard fixed pixel DR value between the electron noise floor and full well clip point. Nothing in the processing chain can alter that. Shooting at high f/stop values and high ISO values compromises dynamic range, shadow detail and color resolution compared to shooting at the native ISO maximum DR sweet spot of the sensor itself.
At least with a raw camera one can shoot cropped formats to get the desired aesthetic effect if FF35 is too much.

 

[Alain M]

It would be nice going into year 2020 to have Quad internal Audio input that can be XLR input converted with a Quad A-Box... internal Quality Audio has gone so good that for projects with a (Quad Audio track capacity) where you do not need any crazy fancy setup, is a time saver going straight to Main Cam A without need to sync in post.

I use my A-BOX on my RED Helium all the time and then in protools I do a final clean up sometimes when (if need it) on the final edit using IZOTOPE Plugin...

 

[Phil Holland]

It would be nice going into year 2020 to have Quad internal Audio input that can be XLR input converted with a Quad A-Box... internal Quality Audio has gone so good that for projects with a (Quad Audio track capacity) where you do not need any crazy fancy setup, is a time saver going straight to Main Cam A without need to sync in post.

I use my A-BOX on my RED Helium all the time and then in protools I do a final clean up sometimes when (if need it) on the final edit using IZOTOPE Plugin...

I don't think that's "Komodo land", but possibly a DSMC3 thing. If RED continues to go modular I can see something like that existing for sure. There's always going to be need for different workflows and sound on set isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but I agree. I'd love to be able to feed 4X signals in there for a lot of reasons. On both my cams I have stereo XLR modules and I do feed the mix down or just record straight through the camera. If the cameras get to "Ranger quiet" or lower in the future, I can see this opening up some neat new worlds.

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

If there would come up a solid autofocus tease, I would be floored!

 

[Phil Holland]

Side note, noticed that the final specs of the two ZCams are locked in as pre-orders are now open. Both are approximate full frame sensors. 6K being smaller than FF35 slightly, 8K being larger than FF35 slightly.

The partial debayered ZRAW seems to be a 10-bit codec and for whatever reason is limited to 4096x2160 @ 30p (cropped?), I've seen it written a few times they were working 4K 60p for ZRAW as well. The other odd duck is there doesn't appear to be an 8192x4320 DCI aspect ratio recording mode, but UHD 8K 7680x4320 tops at 30p for H.264 and H.265 (4:2:0, 10-bit for H.265/8-bit for H.264). It does have a 3.5mm mic jack as well as a stereo 5-pin Lemo. Dual ISO sensors apparently as well and in particular the 6K model might be somewhere along the lines of the upcoming Panasonic S1H. To early to tell there.

These ZCams are in the form factor wheelhouse that Komodo exists in as well as the approximate price point. Basically at the moment it's the only thing we can truly compare Komodo to size-wise. They are targeting an October 2019 release for both models.

At first I thought it was interchangeable mounts, but it appears they are different models. One thing that is very interesting based on the renders is the 3/4 top down/front isometric view of the cameras show what appears to be a slide out filter tray of some sort. Which I can't find in any of the other renders and there's nothing discussing it anywhere. Also the version I touched at NAB 2019 didn't have a mount like this, but it was the early 6K model and I think even the sensor changed since then.

 

[Alain M]

I don't think that's "Komodo land", but possibly a DSMC3 thing. If RED continues to go modular I can see something like that existing for sure. There's always going to be need for different workflows and sound on set isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but I agree. I'd love to be able to feed 4X signals in there for a lot of reasons. On both my cams I have stereo XLR modules and I do feed the mix down or just record straight through the camera. If the cameras get to "Ranger quiet" or lower in the future, I can see this opening up some neat new worlds.

Indeed Phil... Yeah I was thinking on DSMC3 as well... I'm excited about these coming soon cams.

 

[paul ross jones]

Side note, noticed that the final specs of the two ZCams are locked in as pre-orders are now open. Both are approximate full frame sensors. 6K being smaller than FF35 slightly, 8K being larger than FF35 slightly.

The partial debayered ZRAW seems to be a 10-bit codec and for whatever reason is limited to 4096x2160 @ 30p (cropped?), I've seen it written a few times they were working 4K 60p for ZRAW as well. The other odd duck is there doesn't appear to be an 8192x4320 DCI aspect ratio recording mode, but UHD 8K 7680x4320 tops at 30p for H.264 and H.265 (4:2:0, 10-bit for H.265/8-bit for H.264). It does have a 3.5mm mic jack as well as a stereo 5-pin Lemo. Dual ISO sensors apparently as well and in particular the 6K model might be somewhere along the lines of the upcoming Panasonic S1H. To early to tell there.

These ZCams are in the form factor wheelhouse that Komodo exists in as well as the approximate price point. Basically at the moment it's the only thing we can truly compare Komodo to size-wise. They are targeting an October 2019 release for both models.

At first I thought it was interchangeable mounts, but it appears they are different models. One thing that is very interesting based on the renders is the 3/4 top down/front isometric view of the cameras show what appears to be a slide out filter tray of some sort. Which I can't find in any of the other renders and there's nothing discussing it anywhere. Also the version I touched at NAB 2019 didn't have a mount like this, but it was the early 6K model and I think even the sensor changed since then.

just looking at the renders, it does look like theres a slot for a filter,. Did some searching on the Z-Cam Facebook page and found this from Jason Zhang (some guy from the company)-
"eND for EF is in progress. The material passed our initial test. With eND White Balance needs to be changed but color is almost the same. We will do more serious test in the future."

and the mount itself could be removable. I emailed them to ask but haven't got a reply.

Paul

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

Zcam have three new models coming in October. S35 6K, FF 6K and FF 8K.
The slot is for e-ND (electronic ND from ~0,5 to 2,3) you can put in a clear filter too.
The cameras are supposed to get interchangeable mounts. -but they have been a bit back and forth regarding this.
I think ZRaw is still under development an will be 12/14 bit and up to 60fps, but I’m really not sure about the target here... the cameras are supposed to output a raw signal too (@60fps I think) for external recording.

On paper these cameras look incredibly good and hard to beat...

 

[Christoffer Glans]

On paper these cameras look incredibly good and hard to beat...

So did the Kinefinity, but didn't disrupt much of the market. But if Komodo is going to survive by only having the "Red" name on it and not be close to Zcam specs it's gonna be a hard sell for anyone with minor insight into the global lineup of cameras existing.
Red knows the competition, it's only down to how all of these make it in comparisons. It's probably gonna be a tight race and the winner takes it all since these specs at these prices are new beasts on the market.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

FWIW, even in this size/price class I think 60fps at full sensor resolution is a minimum spec. HFR may not be very popular for narrative work, but for a wide variety of other use cases it's a must. Moreover, IMO, 4K/UHD at 120fps or more would be a key selling point in this segment. To achieve that, with current tech, I expect would require key operations to happen in ASICs rather than FPGAs. If that's the case, then vendors will have to do some interesting calculus on the impact of pricing on volume. Depending on sunk NRE costs, is it better to sell 400,000 at $5K each or 120,000 at $7K each...

Cheers - #19