KOMODO....

[David Rasberry]

6k cut of the Monstro 8k VV makes perfect sense on so many levels if you want to keep the cost of Komodo reasonable for a high performance prosumer class camera.


6144 X 3600 resolution 22 megapixels .005mm pixel pitch
30.72mm x 18mm 1.7:1 aspect ratio 35.61mm diagonal. Identical size to 5K Gemini sensor. S35+

A: They can use 8k Monstro wafers that are rejected because of edge defects and recut them.
B. They already have a mechanical platform to support it in production for Gemini, minimal development needed to fit the smaller housing.
C. They already have the processing and color science developed for it. No development costs to dial in a totally new sensor.
D. They can produce it pretty quickly with a short development cycle for the platform and hopefully very few bugs to deal with compared to starting from scratch
E. 17+ stops of DR! More than enough resolution for 4K video and adequate resolution at full frame for most stills requirements.
F. 6K for $6k (including an H2 phone) has a nice ring to it.

 

[Andreas Gotfredsen]

6k cut of the Monstro 8k VV makes perfect sense on so many levels if you want to keep the cost of Komodo reasonable for a high performance prosumer class camera.


6144 X 3600 resolution 22 megapixels .005mm pixel pitch
30.72mm x 18mm 1.7:1 aspect ratio 35.61mm diagonal. Identical size to 5K Gemini sensor. S35+

A: They can use 8k Monstro wafers that are rejected because of edge defects and recut them.
B. They already have a mechanical platform to support it in production for Gemini, minimal development needed to fit the smaller housing.
C. They already have the processing and color science developed for it. No development costs to dial in a totally new sensor.
D. They can produce it pretty quickly with a short development cycle for the platform and hopefully very few bugs to deal with compared to starting from scratch
E. 17+ stops of DR! More than enough resolution for 4K video and adequate resolution at full frame for most stills requirements.
F. 6K for $6k (including an H2 phone) has a nice ring to it.

only thing is that Jarred stated its NOT a Monstro sensor, Gemini. Helium or Dragon sensor but a NEW type of sensor all RED .... so it can't be a cut out 6k Monstro sensor but

 

[Alain M]

Neither are we... and we tested them all. The Canon's are actually pretty incredible. High pull amps , the right voltage so you don't loose efficiency with up-converting and very consistent.

And yes.. they are hot swappable. And they last for hours and hours and hours...

Wonderful to know Jarred... Potential Specs Release Date, any in mind yet???

Thanks

 

[Phil Holland]

6k cut of the Monstro 8k VV makes perfect sense on so many levels if you want to keep the cost of Komodo reasonable for a high performance prosumer class camera.

only thing is that Jarred stated its NOT a Monstro sensor, Gemini. Helium or Dragon sensor but a NEW type of sensor all RED .... so it can't be a cut out 6k Monstro sensor but

Yep, don't think it's Monstro, even at a 6K cut due to the power and heat limitations for sure. I think it's likely a new 5 micron design if my theory is right.

Whatever the voodoo going on, really curious to see images off the cam. Really curious about a lot of things still.

 

[jordan levy]

Interesting take, I'm a little elsewhere with it.

Raven was $6K "naked" if I remember correctly. $10-$12K with a really basic package. All the stuff that's compatible with Komodo is way less than $1K to even get up and running it appears (and there's likely stuff we really don't know yet). Raven however could indeed do 4K 120fps, but it's in a full blown DSMC2 body with the more power hungry Dragon sensor and you can accessorize for a more ideal shooting package on a production for A-Cam or whatever. I still see them out there working via the web.

Don't know about RED Armor here or anything like that, but lens-wise this thing is pretty damn cheap to adapt anything you own to it, just like adapting to E-Mount really. The batteries can be found for <$30, but >$100 if you are looking for the "official Canon" ones. Media, media pricing is indeed a hot topic these days, but CFast can be cheap or expensive depending on brand and capacity. I'll tell you right now, even when I can use cheaper media, I do not cheap out on it. It's not worth the *cost* in terms of things going terribly wrong.

E-Mount-ville. I'll word it brashly, Sony ain't going to be licensing E-Mount stuff to RED. That's their ecosystem and world they are building. I'm actually super excited to see a world being built on Canon RF, it's the earliest days, but RF holds much of the future of Canon's glass R&D and plays well to their interface to EF as well. Not to mention likely a few more still/motion/mirrorless mutant cameras that will be coming from them.

I agree though, I own a bunch of cameras and I do use the A7r series mainly for stills (*gasp* I still use a DSLR Canon 5DsR occasionally). But already Komodo's battery options are in a very different stratosphere. This is clearly a camera purpose designed for extremely compact motion picture work, from the sounds of it you can work for a real long time off a pair of BPs. Like maybe a whole day. That will be a fun one to test.

Outside of the used market, this does look like the first RED camera you can have up and running for sub $10K. We don't know the price really, but lets just say we "know" it's less than $5K per Jarred's post, toss 2-4X BPs ($30-$150 ea.) in there with 2-4X CFast cards (~$150 for a 64GB), maybe a $30-300 mount adapter of your choice, and go from there. Basically $1-$2K worth of goodies depending on how much you need.

With 4K over SDI Out, this might also open up the world of using external recorders for those who want to do such things.

well yeah, i guess im basing it on a used raven price now as you cant buy one new anymore, so im seeing pkgs for under 10k.(with monitors and batts and cards) but sony not letting them put on an E mount makes sense though, that kills that idea for sure. i still see this new red system coming in very close to a used raven full pkg when all said and done.
i really only like native lenses and or manual lenses, i hate adapting electronic lenses, it's almost always a route of a problem. so i really only see RF or PL and maybe EF for this camera, none of which i own anymore. I hear a lot of hype around RF but yet to see anyone using it and sony is just killing it, so many of us invested in sony lenses now. like i said, and like you have, the size and usability of their A7 systems just cant be beat for photos and scouting an the occasion personal video projects. not to mention that little battery lasts all day! a 5D on a scout just became to cumbersome. The other thing is that RF mounts are from one camera, and the BP batteries are form another camera, so no one can jump right in without another investment, another charger, another camera bag, and it just grows. but hey, you are right, we still know so little about this camera, its probably not for everyone, and perfect for others.

 

[Nicholaus James]

This is a far reach, but, I'll ask anyway.

Jarred, do you see an upgrade path for OG RED ONE owners for this? I know you have that program for Gemini, Helium, and Monstro. Do you see a place for Komodo sharing the love?

 

[Russ Fill]

Im supper excited about Komodo and it seems like a Mini RED cam or maybe the new and lighter RED camera,,,,but still trying to warp my head around how if at all the H1 will fit in to this camera/phone/newcamera platform/??? I thought there was going to be an upgrade to the H1 with a new module system or camera attachments. I hope we have some info in the next few weeks as this fall is when most of us get busy and I for one won't have time to deal with figuring out a new camera platform and would really like to know if my H1 is going to be upgraded or a path to do so. OR if its just going to give an option to control the Komodo like a exclusive Foolcontrol system.
Im just having a hard tome seeing the relationship between H1 and Komodo.. Anyone at Red want to enlighten us a bit?

 

[RJ_Ortiz]

Im supper excited about Komodo and it seems like a Mini RED cam or maybe the new and lighter RED camera,,,,but still trying to warp my head around how if at all the H1 will fit in to this camera/phone/newcamera platform/??? I thought there was going to be an upgrade to the H1 with a new module system or camera attachments. I hope we have some info in the next few weeks as this fall is when most of us get busy and I for one won't have time to deal with figuring out a new camera platform and would really like to know if my H1 is going to be upgraded or a path to do so. OR if its just going to give an option to control the Komodo like a exclusive Foolcontrol system.
Im just having a hard tome seeing the relationship between H1 and Komodo.. Anyone at Red want to enlighten us a bit?

Well, you can take Jarred's quote one of two ways. "- It is not under $5k, unless you own a Hydrogen. "

1. The Hydrogen is used as a means for monitoring and control. Camera bundle would include a Hydrogen for operation and be >$5K. But, if you already had a hydrogen, you could buy the camera portion only for < $5K.

2. The camera is sold for >$5K, BUT if you're a H1 owner, they will allow you to purchase it at a discount as a courtesy.

I honestly believe it will be option #2.

 

[Mike P.]

This is a far reach, but, I'll ask anyway.

Jarred, do you see an upgrade path for OG RED ONE owners for this? I know you have that program for Gemini, Helium, and Monstro. Do you see a place for Komodo sharing the love?

Maybe B&H will offer a $5k off upgrade... I’d trade my Scarlet-X brain for one.

Jarred, will it have DP-AF?

 

[DJ Meyer]

Well, you can take Jarred's quote one of two ways. "- It is not under $5k, unless you own a Hydrogen. "

1. The Hydrogen is used as a means for monitoring and control. Camera bundle would include a Hydrogen for operation and be >$5K. But, if you already had a hydrogen, you could buy the camera portion only for < $5K.

2. The camera is sold for >$5K, BUT if you're a H1 owner, they will allow you to purchase it at a discount as a courtesy.

I honestly believe it will be option #2.

Maybe it will MSRP at $5001 but H1 receives $2 trade in credit.

:tongue:

 

[Jarred Land]

Hmmm. I'm not one to post instant reactionary thoughts, but suddenly I'm thinking this is actually being positioned in between the BMD PCC6K/ZCam world and the Canon C series cameras. Like, probably the smaller form factor or sure, but ability-wise likely closer to the C series?

Without the codec stuff known, but I think it's going to go one of two directions with likely a predictable mezzanine codec(s) involved too, that would likely be aiming around a minimum of 4K @ 60fps perhaps? That's about 1/2 the frame rate of any current DSMC2 camera at the same resolution. In terms of estimated pricing and all that, that's painting a bit of clearer picture in my mind. Like I have no idea what this sensor is or even how it works, but if this is the case we might be looking at like 6K WS around 48-50 fps? That's a minimum guess, maybe 6K FF at about 30-40fps max?

I hate posting my speculations, but that's where my mind is going.

I should head over to RSH Kool-Aid man-style, bust through a wall, and figure this all out.

Pretty damn close....

 

[Phil Holland]

Pretty damn close....

Current mood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPwrodxghrw

 

[Gregory Karydis]

Pretty damn close....

:emote_happyhappy::drool5:

This is way too exciting!!!

Can't wait for the next bit of trickle-tease!!!

 

[Caleb Travis Freeburg]

Well, you can take Jarred's quote one of two ways. "- It is not under $5k, unless you own a Hydrogen. "

1. The Hydrogen is used as a means for monitoring and control. Camera bundle would include a Hydrogen for operation and be >$5K. But, if you already had a hydrogen, you could buy the camera portion only for < $5K.

2. The camera is sold for >$5K, BUT if you're a H1 owner, they will allow you to purchase it at a discount as a courtesy.

I honestly believe it will be option #2.

Jim has yet to clarify whether second hand H1's apply, or those bought from carriers, etc. My guess would be #2 wouldn't apply to second hand, so that lack of information gives credence to #1.

I do agree that it's likely to be #2, however. How much of a discount? Well, now we know that BM is selling a 6K for $2500... Red decided to release a few coy details around the same time. Clearly this is already looking to be a camera more like the big boys of Red and the price tag is going to reflect that. However, it would be a bit of a misfire to throw around $5k as a price marker and then charge $8k for the camera to all non-H1 owners.

My guess is what (I think it was Phil?) said: $6k for the camera. No monitor. Controls and monitoring done by H1/H2 and eventual addons, possibly.

H1 owners (non-secondhand) get cam for $5k, maybe $4500.

I haven't seen any evidence of a monitor built on, and a camera this size only makes sense to make the most of phone/tablet controls over physical.

Z-CAM, BM, Red... it's a fun year for the amateur/B-cam market.

EDIT:

Jim said over on H4VUser that H1 Owners will get significant preferential treatment. That could mean something other than a discount, but it would be the simplest way of interpreting the <$5k for H1 owners.

 

[Alain M]

Pretty damn close....

Sweet!!!

 

[Gabriel Scindian]

Well if you ever wanted to know what the rear end of a Komodo looks like, here you go:



https://www.instagram.com/p/B1Fu_psh4kW/

OK I am excited. I love the box design!!!

 

[Timothy Jones]

Thank you god there's no HDMI !

 

[Curren Sheldon]

Just found two Canon BP-975s in "Excellent" condition for $24 each on MPB. Went ahead and bought them in case all of this is true. From the sounds of it, that should give me all-day power on the Komodo. Whereas I spent $1000 on V-Mounts for all-day power on the Epic-W and $750 for something like the C300II.

Really glad that Red didn't go with Sony NPF batteries - I find them unbelievably slow to charge and generally a pain to work with. If Komodo does use the Canon batteries, then I'm pumped with the $48 I just spent - haha. I'm in on Komodo!

 

[Jarred Land]

Just found two Canon BP-975s in "Excellent" condition for $24 each on MPB. Went ahead and bought them in case all of this is true. From the sounds of it, that should give me all-day power on the Komodo. Whereas I spent $1000 on V-Mounts for all-day power on the Epic-W and $750 for something like the C300II.

Really glad that Red didn't go with Sony NPF batteries - I find them unbelievably slow to charge and generally a pain to work with. If Komodo does use the Canon batteries, then I'm pumped with the $48 I just spent - haha. I'm in on Komodo!

wow.. great deal. I just paid $200 for mine

 

[paulcurtis]

https://petapixel.com/2018/02/17/red-foxconn-team-make-8k-cameras-1-3-price/

From early last year - if the sensor is new maybe it's through a partnership like this (unless this news has been debunked in the interim?)

As an early Ti Hydrogen customer (which sadly is sitting in it's box) i'm very curious about this - i was seriously looking at Z Cam so this is great timing.

The pain of waiting for news....

cheers
Paul