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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

KOMODO....

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[PART 1 ON PAGE 14]

- It does not have a fixed lens

Seeing that the signature interchangeable mount being screwed onto the body is absent here, and an RF mount is in it's place, it's safe to assume they're also off the charts. At face value, at least, that appears to be the case. To the left of the mount, there appears to be a threaded hole for a screw (and a tiny locking pin).

This makes me wonder if RED is planning to release a RF-to PL adapter for this that attaches to the RF mount normally, but then screws into the body for additional support. This is really just pure speculation based on an out of focus dot that looks like it would fit a screw, and perhaps from an adapter perspective makes little sense, but maybe it's RED's equivalent to Apple's ProDisplay XDR stand. The tools are there in forms of 3rd Party adapters to throw PL lenses on this, but at the same time a sleeker, safer 1st Party option is given at a premium, say $1,000.

If this was the case though, it makes little sense why they wouldn't go with interchangable mounts to begin with as that likely would be cheaper than machining a RF-to-PL adapter. I think really this could go either way.

- It is not a “module”
- It is not under $5k, unless you own a Hydrogen.
- It does not have an HDMI port
- It has no XLR ports
- It’s body does not weight more than 2 pounds.
- It is not larger than 4 inches in any dimension.

I think here is where the most speculation resides. Sure, we can all guess on the sensor and form our different theories, but there's a lot of space of KOMODO that's yet to be shown. Since it's not a module, but integrates with Hydrogen, there's a lot of room to guess what that integration is.

We know there's two headphone jacks and at least one 3.5mm mic input next to a CFast slot.

Additionally, we know the card slot is near a heatsink, and what appears to be a fairly large release button/switch.
We haven't learned anything about batteries and power, so I do wonder if this is a battery release for something with a little smaller of a footprint than V-Mounts so that the back can fit a few more things on it.

The no HDMI port is a curious absense though. And one that provides a lot of questions on how monitoring is going to work.
- Did SDI make the cut or are we going to be looking at a USB-C port for monitoring (and integrating with Hydrogen)?
- If USB-C is the way to monitor, is it going to support 4K?
- Are we going to see pins ala DSMC2 to connect touch monitors?
- Or is there a LEMO port?
- Is there going to be a built in monitor on the back of the body?
- Are we looking at built in wireless monitoring?

There's certainly a lot to ponder and a lot for RED to fit in a 4x4x4 area.
No matter what, it's certainly exciting to see what's cooking.

And nothing that I've seen here really seems like it'll be disappointing either way.
Although, I personally would have loved to see interchangable OLPF's for shooting full spectrum with this thing.
 
I think this will be a Red version of the Z Cam.

Z Cams aren’t more than 4 inches in any dimension either. I’m pretty close to preordering one simply because of what it offers in a way smaller package. I shoot a ton of high alpine content. And the Z can offers 120 at 4K which is a huge need for the shoots.

If you read the “what a Komodo isn’t” next to the Z cam... it’s pretty close. You can even use an IOS device to monitor and control the camera. I’m sure with Hydrogen Red has more in store but the similarities are pretty interesting.
 
All I have to ask is that Komodo has a Sony Alpha mount option, I'm really lovin' my Batis and G-Master glass these days. Oh and AI-AF would be super appreciated as well.
I and others have banged that drum many times. I strongly believe that RED is listening, but implementation will occur later.

I think this will be a Red version of the Z Cam.
I think this makes sense. But the RF mount does not, especially in that context.

Brandon, I appreciate your line of reasoning. It's well thought out.
 
I think this will be a Red version of the Z Cam.
Z Cams aren’t more than 4 inches in any dimension either. I’m pretty close to preordering one simply because of what it offers in a way smaller package. I shoot a ton of high alpine content. And the Z can offers 120 at 4K which is a huge need for the shoots..

Yep, i would guess the same thing. The new Z's are shipping in October. S35 or FF in that package if you want, complete with RAW and all the connectivity software. I've never seen or used one but on paper they're pretty compelling so far. This is quite good timing as i was really considering a B cam and even that Sigma fp is looking fun. These are interesting times.

Wasn't there an announcement about a foxcon or similar partnership on sensors? Maybe that was just the electronics but i remember a fuss at the time about the stereo possibilities?

The Canon RF flange distance is 20mm which means that Leica M lenses would work which is great. But Emount is 18mm so no way to adapt those. L mount is also 20mm and i wonder why not jump on the L bandwagon...

Well maybe i can blow the dust off the Hydrogen then! I was one of those that was sucked in with the red camera and connectivity side of that and it's been collecting dust since. However i would have thought there's nothing special about the Hydrogen connecting to this beyond a physical connector - i mean inside it's just Android so it would seem that forcing a connection to H1 would limit the audience a bit?

cheers
Paul
 
The Canon RF flange distance is 20mm which means that Leica M lenses would work which is great. But Emount is 18mm so no way to adapt those. L mount is also 20mm and i wonder why not jump on the L bandwagon...

L-Mount Alliance is between Leica, Panasonic, and Sigma. While certainly powerhouses, market share is not entirely so clear.

The good news, you will see very likely the Sigma L-Mount stuff also coming to Canon RF-Mount.

If this is indeed a fixed mount on the body and it is RF only, you can adapt damn near any lens out there from the last 100 years or so in approximately around 50 different mount types except for these current mounts:

- Hasselblad XCD-Mount (medium-ish format)
- Sony E-Mount (FF35 and APS-C)
- Sony FZ-Mount (FF35 and APS-C)
- Nikon Z-Mount (FF35 and APS-C)
- Fujinon X-Mount (APS-C)
- Canon M-Mount (APS-C)
- DJI DL-Mount (APS-C/S35)
- MFT-Mount (smaller format)

Curious to see how Canon actually handles M and RF Mount existing moving forward, but you can certainly still make the cameras slightly smaller. It's early days when it comes to RF, but already we know of 2 major manufacturers outside of Canon supporting the ecosystem. Meanwhile more or less all of the new optics development hasn't been aimed at EF this year from the big C, but rather they are focused for basically the last 2 years developing RF related glass.

Personally I'm super excited to tap into the Leica M-Mount stuff I got, some of which I even currently use on Monstro. Plus the 50 or so EF lenses I have to be used with fancy RF>EF Adapters that feature things like removable NDs and all that.


I'm real curious to know more about the Komodo sensor. Clearly a lot has transpired and RED hasn't ever put a sensor into such a small body and it is really hard to tell exactly how big that sensor is due to the sneaky angle Jarred snapped that shot at. Sitting on my hands, awaiting info. I got a host of glass and adapters at the ready to dig in. And I'm totally going to be the guy with the big lens and small camera combo at some point, it's going to be hilarious to look at for some of those longer primes.
 
I think this will be a Red version of the Z Cam.

That's how I read it. I wonder if RED just use the same sensor family. I think there are 6K and 8K versions...

I and others have banged that drum many times. I strongly believe that RED is listening, but implementation will occur later.

I can't imagine Sony EVER letting anyone else make a camera with a Sony mount. When have they ever done this before ? Kinefinity has a "dumb" mount but I doubt very much with Sony they would allow a licence to happen . It's just not the way they think.

Well maybe i can blow the dust off the Hydrogen then! I was one of those that was sucked in with the red camera and connectivity side of that and it's been collecting dust since. However i would have thought there's nothing special about the Hydrogen connecting to this beyond a physical connector - i mean inside it's just Android so it would seem that forcing a connection to H1 would limit the audience a bit?

Maybe it just simply becomes a "pro" touch screen. Seeing as there's no HDMI but a lot of other wireless....

jb
 
I would definitely love a smaller form factor Red - something like a Z-Cam. I think the difficult part with that is what do you release spec-wise that won't step on the toes of the DSMC2 line but is still a nice upgrade or choice compared to Z-Cam, who is going to have both S35 and FF sensors with some pretty high frame rates in the 4k-6k range and (I think?) dual ISO?

I really don't need 8K and was one reason I sold my Epic-W, because I wanted to shoot at 4k and 5k more often but couldn't deal with the crop (I would have gotten a Gemini if it was around at the time and am thinking about it again now because I do miss the Red image and codec compared to other cameras and raw codecs). So my hope is:

- 4k Super35, 5k slightly larger FOV (can top off at 5k)
- At least 96fps in 4K.
- Great noise performance at 3200 ISO at least (or dual ISO)
- Love the RF Mount and CFast.

We'll see! Hopefully announced sometime soon - maybe IBC in early Sept?
 
Seems like you have not understood the post I made. A "disrupt in sales" means, projected sales quotas may not be reached. No matter how enterprising your thoughts might be, SONY keeps on changing workflow on every new generation of their camera bodies. That is seen as a deterrent in acquiring their cameras into existing pipelines by many folks. RED did not change anything radical to compromise their echo system yet. They simply added IPP2 into their DSMC2 camera lineup while maintaining the previous workflow. ARRI too had stayed with their workflow all along and added functionality as and when needed.

I don't know how much interaction you have with SONY professional group but we do work with them. According to one source at SONY, a certain Cine Alta camera ONLY sold 200 copies and they scrapped the program. Also, have you worked with the SONY Venice camera on a commercial or a feature project? We have and that workflow is NOT robust as you think. When you use a properly calibrated 4k or better reference monitor, you'd see image anomalies such as muddy picture details and crushed blacks when image elements are pushed to usable ranges.

So, before singing songs of praise around SONY, I recommend you to use them in a rigorous testing sequence.

Komodo is a different market segment.
So no.

Regarding image anomailies... that can be due to number of reasons, most of which may not be - and most commonly are not - the camera's "fault".
Yes, when the image get urealistically pushed, there are anomalies.
 
rigorous testing sequence.

Regarding image anomailies... that can be due to number of reasons, most of which may not be - and most commonly are not - the camera's "fault".

The first rule of Fight Club. There's a lot of people on the forums who do and do not use the cameras out there and haven't uncovered the gremlins.

The second rule of Fight Club. If you own a Venice, get the 4.0 Firmware update which mysteriously features a hardware erm... modification :)
 
I would definitely love a smaller form factor Red - something like a Z-Cam. I think the difficult part with that is what do you release spec-wise that won't step on the toes of the DSMC2 line but is still a nice upgrade or choice compared to Z-Cam, who is going to have both S35 and FF sensors with some pretty high frame rates in the 4k-6k range and (I think?) dual ISO?

I really don't need 8K and was one reason I sold my Epic-W, because I wanted to shoot at 4k and 5k more often but couldn't deal with the crop (I would have gotten a Gemini if it was around at the time and am thinking about it again now because I do miss the Red image and codec compared to other cameras and raw codecs). So my hope is:

- 4k Super35, 5k slightly larger FOV (can top off at 5k)
- At least 96fps in 4K.
- Great noise performance at 3200 ISO at least (or dual ISO)
- Love the RF Mount and CFast.

We'll see! Hopefully announced sometime soon - maybe IBC in early Sept?

I don't think it's that simple. Where it got confusing with the Raven is you're talking about a camera that was quite a bit less that uses the same accessories as the upper echelon cameras and in some cases had less crop on 4K 120. I know quite a few shooters that jumped over from the Epic Dragon.

I think at some point if the approach is always worrying about stepping on toes they'll just become Sony or Canon. I don't think it'll be 8K obviously, but I can see this camera competing with the E2-F6/E2-S6.
 
The first rule of Fight Club. There's a lot of people on the forums who do and do not use the cameras out there and haven't uncovered the gremlins.

There is no Fight Club here.

The second rule of Fight Club. If you own a Venice, get the 4.0 Firmware update which mysteriously features a hardware erm... modification :)

A lot can be said here but considering the topic would be unethical so let's celebrate new ahievements here instead.
 
I kind of hope they stick with R3D Lite in the Komodo and thus let it get greater specs like big sensor and high fps without being a threat to the other, more expensive RED cameras.
Well, as long as R3D Lite means something like a higher compression..if 8:1 compression was the best it could do, it would probably be fine for most shooters that are not doing high end stuff :)
 
R3D already goes to "Lite" in the context of high compression, Cfast supports serious bitrates making that unecessary and limiting Komodo with high compression would a) be in contradiction with "cinema grade images" target, and b) limit its image quality, usage range and market potential = > be an autogoal.
 
Yea - that could be one way they differentiate it, by allowing only 8:1 compression or more. At this price point, that's fine with me. For a full documentary, I shot quite a bit at 13:1 at 6K WS on the Epic-W (about a 1.7x crop) and it still looks incredible and quite a bit nicer than any Canon C300/200/Panasonic EVA-1 and their h264/5 codecs. For commercial work, 8:1 would still suffice for me for something in this small of a package or as a B-Cam to something like the Gemini.
 
Yea - that could be one way they differentiate it, by allowing only 8:1 compression or more. At this price point, that's fine with me. For a full documentary, I shot quite a bit at 13:1 at 6K WS on the Epic-W (about a 1.7x crop) and it still looks incredible and quite a bit nicer than any Canon C300/200/Panasonic EVA-1 and their h264/5 codecs. For commercial work, 8:1 would still suffice for me for something in this small of a package or as a B-Cam to something like the Gemini.

Agreed. I really hope to see something from the folks out shooting it soon. I'm in the market for a super-light camera that can pack 4K 120 with the ability to consume power at a lower rate than the current cameras DSMC 1 or DSMC 2.

One thing I'm curious about for it is power. I hope RED stays away from the REDvolts on the Komodo. I can't speak for everyone but I went through 4 of the RedVolt V's and none of them worked. Half the time it wouldn't charge, half the time it wouldn't even work on the camera. Same for the ones that used to fit in the side handle. Going to CFAST for media, a flexible lens mount (they've already done these two) and offering a known and well-proven power option (like sony NP-F) will work wonders or this camera. Hustling 4 V-Mounts to get through a day with a Fully rigged DSMC1 or 2 camera is doable but I'd love to lighten the load.
 
Can't wait, thanks for the tease Jarred!
 
Sounds to me this is

- a pocket cinema camera
- uses CFAST
- records 5k
- has NO build in monitor
- hydrogen can be used as monitor
or you need to buy an red module monitor that cost 1299 USD

it cost 4599 USD so with a hydrogen its below $5k and with a red module monitor its above $5k
 
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