Komodo has inspired me to think. Audio related

[Phil Holland]

So. I'm mainly and XLR guy and wireless audio guy. 3.5mm hasn't been part of my world for a long, long time on set. Actually truthfully, really not ever.

But, I started thinking in abstract ways with an open mind and experimental vigor. Because I plan on feeding audio into Komodo one way or another. Wirelessly, XLR, you name it.


Here I am prepping for a shoot tomorrow and I got some wild hair-brain idea about 3.5mm audio. Yes, bluetooth transmittance would be nice for wireless headphone monitoring and perhaps *gasp* even getting audio into Komodo. I'm not really clear as to what exactly all the wireless features are of the little beast yet.


A quick deep dive into various potential wireless 3.5mm transmitters and receivers led to some promising results. Actually a lot of this stuff wasn't even around 3-5 years ago. I'm going to order a few options shortly to see what works and what doesn't, most importantly can hold up to the rigors and demands of production quality results.

But yeah. I think however you are rolling audio and monitoring, if you goal is to go wireless, these things represent a lot of promise. There's always potential issues using wireless stuff. Interference, delay, etc. But in that situation you are a 3.5mm cable away from fixing that when it comes up.

Fun stuff. A lot of things worth looking at.

 

[Peter Stanley]

yes, I’ve always wanted Bluetooth monitoring for cameras and audio mixers. My URSA has Bluetooth controls for camera settings and they can come in handy, but I wish I could connect Bluetooth headphones to it to hear the audio from it. perhaps Komodo might have some wireless audio options...

 

[Phil Holland]

yes, I’ve always wanted Bluetooth monitoring for cameras and audio mixers. My URSA has Bluetooth controls for camera settings and they can come in handy, but I wish I could connect Bluetooth headphones to it to hear the audio from it. perhaps Komodo might have some wireless audio options...

Unknown, but what I am saying is there are rather compact wireless audio options that can plug into the 3.5mm ports if needed.

Time will tell, but I'm still going to tinker a bit. This is also relevant for DSMC2 at the moment for me.

 

[Gregory Karydis]

Phil, I've been using the little Sennheiser EW 112P (now in Gen 4) since the early days to get audio into the RED One, Epic, etc
The 112 has proven to be a rather reliable sidekick to any sound guy.
You can hook up a 2x XLR to 3.5mm adapter on either the sending or receiving end.

On occasion it has saved the day.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

My experience with audio and RED is that everything is fine and dandy until it enters the electrical envelope of the camera. Then it's bad news thereafter. If KOMODO fixes this, or DSMC3, I'm all ears. But very much waiting to see proof of signal integrity before thinking at all about signal capture.

 

[Todd T]

My limited experience with earlier bluetooth setups were disappointing due to high latency, limited range, and susceptibility to interference.

It would be interesting to hear if anyone else has recently tested or used equipment with newer Bluetooth implementations/chipsets.

 

[Dan Kanes]

We talkin’ like one of these ?

https://amzn.to/2VA4AJM

 

[Chris Kennedy]

Hi Phil, recently I also looked into a smaller alternative for feeding audio into my Red as well. I definitely relate to usually dismissing anything that isn’t xlr. And the older I get the smaller and lighter I’m leaning to. It’s not Bluetooth but surprisingly not too shabby for a low price: the Rode Wireless GO Compact.
The range sucks, internal battery doesn’t last that long, and the microphone it ships with isn’t good. But it’s super small, reliable in short ranges, and if you change out the mic it sounds nice. I primarily use it to monitor audio and not for mics. But the small form factor would be very nice on Komodo until an amazing Bluetooth alternative presents itself.

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

Very curious Phil. Keep us posted!

 

[M Harvey]

I'd love to hear the results, too. Is anyone aware of professional-level audio interfaces that serve a similar purpose-- or solutions that might be in the pipeline? I'm really interested in either built-in wireless standards that have some chance of being adopted by multiple manufacturers (something Bluetooth-based among them), or audio units that rely on some interface more secure than a 3.5mm input.

One thing that has kept me in the Sony ecosystem is their "smart" hotshoe that addresses some of these needs. You can use their $50 adapter to mount their wireless receiver to the hotshoe of an A7-series camera, FS5, FS7, etc., and you then have 2 channels of decent wireless audio into the camera with no additional rigging, batteries, or wires needed. You can also get a 2-channel XLR input with the same hotshoe interface, and you then have an easy way to connect any standard pro audio to the tiny camera. (Or, if you're using a camera like the FS7 that already has XLR inputs, you now have either 4 XLR in, or 2 XLR + 2 wireless channels.)
Panasonic (and probably others) have made similar XLR inputs, but hotshoes are of course rare in professional audio and video, and I doubt there's any kind of standardization for how these "smart" hotshoes are configured. So I wouldn't expect that to turn up on a Red or Arri any time soon.

But it seems to me that Komodo's active baseplate could be a great platform on which to implement this kind of audio solution. Collaboration with Lectro or one of the other wireless companies? Or maybe it's a well-designed unit from Sound Devices? When Komodo arrives, I expect I'll be mounting it on top of my MixPre 3-- but I'd love to lose the wires and separate power sources...

 

[Michael Winokur]

Phil - Have you considered going full wilreless with the 2 CH Sony URX - P03D. Still doesn't satisfy being able to adjust on the fly but it's a very compact option. Also, did you know on a DSMC1 if you take the fan cover off the 1/8" jacks are actually screw ons? I wish RED had left those threads exposed. I don't know if there are threads on any of the DSMC2 audio inputs.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I definitely relate to usually dismissing anything that isn’t xlr.

XLR isn't the best solution. TA3 or even TA5 are better options for so a small camera. Now I would love to have an AES input on TA3 to marry it with the M2D2 from Sonosax.

Patrick

 

[H Dewey]

@ Jarred,

Can you give us an idea of how the hot little Komodo is cooled? Are there fans? If so, do they shut off while shooting?

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

My .02. As someone that has had to rely on wireless audio their whole career, until proven to me in-person otherwise, for sending into camera, I wouldn’t touch Bluetooth with a 39 1/2 foot pole. Mostly because of the latency. Wireless to camera in my world is rarely for just a scratch track.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

My experience with audio and RED is that everything is fine and dandy until it enters the electrical envelope of the camera. Then it's bad news thereafter. If KOMODO fixes this, or DSMC3, I'm all ears. But very much waiting to see proof of signal integrity before thinking at all about signal capture.

Good lord, is this why I was getting static "hits" randomly on wide-open channels with my lav this past week? Absolutely everything else was good (phones off, a lot of free frequencies, talent was 10 feet away). Guess I should be running into a zoom, or would one of those Beachtek RED DXAs be ideal?

 

[David Rasberry]

@ Jarred,

Can you give us an idea of how the hot little Komodo is cooled? Are there fans? If so, do they shut off while shooting?

There is a large cooling tunnel straight through the middle of the body with two fans mounted on one end. Looks like electronics are completely sealed off behind heat sinks on all four sides of the tunnel, so no weather exposure for anything but the fans.

 

[David Rasberry]

Good lord, is this why I was getting static "hits" randomly on wide-open channels with my lav this past week? Absolutely everything else was good (phones off, a lot of free frequencies, talent was 10 feet away). Guess I should be running into a zoom, or would one of those Beachtek RED DXAs be ideal?

Line level from a decent mixer into the camera will get you at least another 15dB S/N over mic level. I have a field test kit I use for commissioning sound systems that measures both noise and distortion. Best S/N I’ve measured for camera mic inputs, balanced or not, is -65dBA. A compact digital video camera is a very noisy EMI/RFI environment internally, virtually impossible to shield adequately for audio.

 

[H Dewey]

There is a large cooling tunnel straight through the middle of the body with two fans mounted on one end. Looks like electronics are completely sealed off behind heat sinks on all four sides of the tunnel, so no weather exposure for anything but the fans.

Sounds good... err, speaking of sound, I'm confident they have a solution for fans not interfering with on board sound recording. They've had experience with that before.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

Line level from a decent mixer into the camera will get you at least another 15dB S/N over mic level. I have a field test kit I use for commissioning sound systems that measures both noise and distortion. Best S/N I’ve measured for camera mic inputs, balanced or not, is -65dBA. A compact digital video camera is a very noisy EMI/RFI environment internally, virtually impossible to shield adequately for audio.

Nice! This is good to know. Would you mind (if you have the time) DMing me a recommended, budget-friendly alternative?

Edit: or posting here for others to see!

 

[H Dewey]

Line level from a decent mixer into the camera will get you at least another 15dB S/N over mic level. I have a field test kit I use for commissioning sound systems that measures both noise and distortion. Best S/N I’ve measured for camera mic inputs, balanced or not, is -65dBA. A compact digital video camera is a very noisy EMI/RFI environment internally, virtually impossible to shield adequately for audio.

David, does the noisy EMI/RFI environment also pertain to a cell phone? Reason I'm asking is because there are some very inexpensive ways of getting XLR sound into a cell phone for recording.