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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Komodo has inspired me to think. Audio related

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  • #21
Just to reply to the general idea, I already have "larger wireless options", but getting curious about the actual run times of these devices that are about as thick as a #2 pencil and about as long as a pencil you'd throw away.

All my small audio stuff is indeed small really, but Komodo is making me wonder if there's smaller yet that I can explore for certain things.
 
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicvideoassist

Blackmagic video assist 7” has two Mini xlr inputs and can record both video from the camera sdi and audio in either prores or Dnxhd. $795 list.

Might be a good solution for monitoring Komodo as well as audio recording along with a prores file for those that need it. Komodo 4K output is a pretty big improvement over previous Reds that only allowed 1080p out
 
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  • #23
Michael Hastings said:
Komodo 4K output is a pretty big improvement over previous Reds that only allowed 1080p out
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Yep. I think I'm going to get one of those sent over for testing. I honestly haven't tested that particular unit, but considering the small mount of Blackmagic Design stuff I use on a daily basis, happy to check it out.

No need for the history lesson, but DSMC2 was unfortunately prone to moderately bad luck. The spec for 4K over single SDI finalized and deployed a year after DSMC2's launch, the boards we all use today really came from that 2015 era and the tech itself was likely developed in 2013/2014. DXL2 got the spicy 4K monitoring out fairly recently. Komodo gets it, which means we'll get it in DSMC3 no matter what, which is great news.

Epic/DSMC did indeed have the Broadcast Module, but the market was likely smaller back then for 4K out, it was way ahead of it's time. I can count the number of filmmakers I know who used it on two hands back then.

The bigger question will be is if we get 8K out as well with DSMC3. Totally not necessary on set, but might be interesting in some use cases as well as having an ecosystem for easier 1:1 magnification with way less delay. I wonder what's possible and practical there.
 
Assuming you don't have an actual sound department...

Assuming you don't have an actual sound department...

For wireless monitoring there are very small BlueTooth TX/RX switchable devices with internal batteries. Such as:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X7VZ3Z7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They're under $20, just get a really short mini to mini cable to go from the jack on the camera to the input jack on the BT device and set to TX. If you already have BlueTooth headphones you're there. If not, just throw down another $20, plug in your wired headphones and set to RX. This is not a bulletproof pro solution, but it's monitoring - not incoming signal path. Moreover, in most cases your head will be very close to the camera so even with lots of EMF hash from other devices, it should hold up. Range is a different discussion.

Since DSMC2 came out with on board mics, I often just use those for scratch audio - especially since I typically sync to hero audio on/near set when making dailies anyway. Less gack on the camera and less RF emission. I've also been experimenting with using an iPhone to remotely record hero audio via a proper DA. The one I have has 2 XLRs, phantom power from internal rechargeable battery, big dial for gain/level and the storage inside the iPhone can handle ones and zeros just fine. No cables, no wireless interference. Biggest drawback so far is the physical size of the interface/DA/pre-amp unit can make it hard to body mount discreetly. For interviews I just hide it nearby. YMMV.

Cheers - #19
 
DSMC3 should tackle the Fan noise issue. Weapon still has a lot of fan noise. I allways wonder why they put 2 small fans instead of a bigger one?

Pat
 
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  • #26
Patrick Tresch said:
DSMC3 should tackle the Fan noise issue. Weapon still has a lot of fan noise. I allways wonder why they put 2 small fans instead of a bigger one?
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I can think of a few good reasons, but I agree and hope it's improved.

All the big boy cameras have fans though, even some of the new small boys too.

I made a sound shield out of neoprene and foam core that didn't block airflow a bit ago that did wonders in a very quiet room. Sort of a curved L-chute with little steps glued in there to diffuse the sound. Sort of a blimp concept, but camera was still exposed. It was only a potential issue in that really small room, but if I have to do it again I'll use metal or plexi for the chute hood. Somewhat similar to my Jacobson sound blimp in layering. I have a nice idea about staggered triangular fins at the rear too. Might cut another few dB.

If I'm bored or have to shoot in another 6 foot room, I'll make another. It's not been an issue on set though outside of that.
 
Yeah, some “newer” cams have pretty loud fans to keep them cool. Most of the time, it’s not a big deal, but sometimes you’re in the right situation and it’s audible. About a month ago I was on a shoot (series of interviews) and the audio guy said something to me one day. Now, I am hugely audio conscious/friendly, but I basically told him to get the F over it, because I wasn’t risking the camera overheating.
 
Phil Holland said:
I made a sound shield out of neoprene and foam core that didn't block airflow a bit ago that did wonders in a very quiet room. Sort of a curved L-chute with little steps glued in there to diffuse the sound. Sort of a blimp concept, but camera was still exposed. It was only a potential issue in that really small room, but if I have to do it again I'll use metal or plexi for the chute hood.
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Red should do it properly from the beginning. BIGGER FAN -> Lower RPM -> less noise.

I also made a home made blimp but it has it's limitations.
 
H Dewey said:
David, does the noisy EMI/RFI environment also pertain to a cell phone? Reason I'm asking is because there are some very inexpensive ways of getting XLR sound into a cell phone for recording.
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Best way is via a lightning or USB preamp that does the AD conversion externally. No noise problems once it is in the digital domain. I use a Shure MV-1 preamp with my iPad, single channel, because it will power off the iPad. $129. Works great. Bit of a brick since it is heavy like a paper weight for desktop use, but not that much of an issue. I velcro it to the back of an iOgrapher rig and mount either the wireless receiver or a short shotgun to a cold shoe for casual video recordings or street demonstrations where I would not risk my good camera.
 
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  • #31
XLR inputs

XLR inputs

I know the footprint/ form factor is totally off but I am currently shooting on an S1H and recently got the XLR1 for a doc I am shooting/directing currently and it's an absolute treat to use.
Something with similar functionality, 2 Full size XLR's, full manual buttons and dials on the outside. Maybe built into a baseplate, with XLR'S on one side and knobs on the other....? Would be great to somehow have a wireless connection like the XLR1
 
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  • #34
Patrick Tresch said:
Does Ranger share the same cooling design than the common Komodo?
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Ranger has a very different cooling design and utilizes a large diameter fan, I think the Xenomorphs if I recall correctly have 2X or more fans, same for DXL if I remember right. Haven't had to think of it in a while. I think the Ranger fan is actually larger than the Komodo body in width/length, so that's not going to work unless you want an unsightly bulge and a bigger camera!

I think in the modern era there's a lot of potential for custom enclosed turbine cooling systems, of course at the cost of designing, QCing, manufacturing, and assembling such things. There's a reason that works on devices that sell in the millions of units and not things that sell in the thousands. There's also some pretty high tech, yet costly cooling solutions that might work well too. There's also a custom cooling module out there for DSMC2 (not very public, not made by RED, nor cheap, in this case also very loud) and that is something I think if designed as a module or add on components, similar to my sound diffusion chutes/exhausts except more robust, might be a nice solution to add when you need it. You can diffuse, dampen, and eliminate a lot of sound with a well designed exhaust and intake and not effect general airflow. There's also some pretty interesting developments of metamaterial in the last 5 years that could play a role if developed properly. Same idea as an exhaust/intake diffusion really except focusing on the reflection of the wavelength to diffuse it. Now imagine if you combine those methods and hell put it in a form of something you can just bolt onto the camera :)


But I would say lets see what Komodo does and how RED tackles DMSC3 when the time comes.


I unfortunately have the realistic, practical, and fantasy visions all in my head about how loud cameras are. DSMC2 for me "isn't loud", but in some situations (very small rooms, uncommon mics near camera, recording very quiet sounds, etc) could cause problems. Pretty much the same with the Venice and Alexa LF bodies too as well as others. I'm not opposed to using blimps if you need to make a silent camera, it's how we've done it for decades. It's just a big inconvenience and something you need to prepare for properly.


Overall though, I think any improvement is a welcome one when it comes to a quieter camera. And DSMC to DSMC2 did actually represent an improvement, though subtle.
 
Phil Holland said:
There's also a custom cooling module out there for DSMC2 (not very public, not made by RED, nor cheap, in this case also very loud)
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Would love to see those solutions for my Weapon, do you have any link to it?


Pretty much the same with the Venice and Alexa LF bodies too as well as others. I'm not opposed to using blimps if you need to make a silent camera, it's how we've done it for decades. It's just a big inconvenience and something you need to prepare for properly.
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All sound guy I encounter tell me that the LF is less noisy than the Weapon (I use mine at 47c in adaptative mode). I developed the Fanplate for the Epic and Scarlet, so I try to prepare myself for an optimal sound recording on the shoot, but had no luck finding a solution for the Weapon. But I confess : I never tried to pull those fans out of the body and play with a bigger one ...

Pat
 
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  • #36
Patrick Tresch said:
Would love to see those solutions for my Weapon, do you have any link to it?
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I have shots of it and will likely use it again. It's not a quiet solution, but rather to keep the camera operating in 160-180 degrees.

Fan Plate was cool. But I strongly recommend a blimp or dampened exhaust and intake. Way better solution and no power needed.
 
Just in case you are not aware Tentacle Sync Track E is coming out end of March. 32bit audio recording so no need to set levels, can't clip, has a headphone output so should be able to plug into a transmitter (via a pad?) to get reference audio to camera. Has built in timecode for sync in post.
Info here: https://www.cinema5d.com/tentacle-sync-track-announced-pocketsized-synchronized-audio-recorder/
B&H page here: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1506356-REG/tentacle_sync_track_e_pocket_audio.html
 
I'm waiting (impatiently) for the Track E to arrive. I think this is probably the best solution for a certain set of my audio & TC needs. I just thought of an interesting opportunity for integration between RED and Tentacle apps. If anyone knows about APP development, please chime in. The Track E's are triggered over bluetooth from ios or android apps. I'd be very happy if triggering run / stop on my camera also triggered record on the track-e. I'd be ecstatic if it also kept the file names in parity. I don't know anything about the way the RED or Tentacle mobile apps work but some way to have them talk to each other or for one app to include protocols for the other device would be really useful... Even if both apps had to be running and there was just a function that said "on click" start / stop record in both devices that would be pretty good.
 
I have a Ranger and love the setup...to me this is what Red should have done all along, although others prefer a smaller type of camera (I’m guessing DSMC3 will look a lot like Komodo).

While the 5 pin XLR allows for 2 audio tracks to be recorded, I would selfishly prefer 4.

That said, the Track E does look like a cool innovation. 32 Bit! Putting these onto actors or hosts makes a ton of sense, which could in theory mean the 2 tracks worth of XLR in on a Ranger can allow for a guide track and boom track -for those of us who are small crews.
 
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