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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Kodak 2393 Emulation LUT Test

Anyone know how to make this compatible with apple color? I've tried to convert them with lutbuddy when they where first posted, but to no avail. Would love to play with them.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Nice Juan, Glad to see you like them, personally I can't work without them :)
It would be great to see the same edit with a straight redgamma3 as reference. To me this is like looking ata super rich paper print instead of a color slide.

And to all the guys mumbling about RED and bad skin tones... well, maybe you should try another colorist.. :)
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Quote of the year! Awesome!
 
Björn Benckert said:
And to all the guys mumbling about RED and bad skin tones... well, maybe you should try another colorist.. :)
Click to expand...


being the guy who started the skin tones thread, ill elaborate on my crestfallen attitude..

its not that the RED cant produce great color and skin tone... because CLEARLY it can..
its more about the fact that it takes a few hundred bucks and post time to achieve it..
where as some cameras have that out of the box glamor.
ive done shoots where there is literally a day or two for turn around, and no time for stacking nodes and adding luts in order to get a good looking image.. and next thing you know, your laying in bed at 10pm eating a bowl of rice crispys, watching Mike Rowe inseminate a cow and your spot comes on during the commercial break and you cringe at the RC3 RG3 out of the box look that screams shot on red, untouched.

thats my only problem.. otherwise i love my epic
 
Then your complaint is more with the lack of proper finishing or any finishing at all. Some cameras do produce better images just right out of the box but hence the nature of how you're setting up the cameras when you think your work is going to be treated this way needs to be given more time in prep or your own time to get an image you could live with if you had no other options, yes? However, color is always the first option and I do agree RED's due to the RAW nature of the camera is always better looking when treated by a colorist in a properly calibrated environment.
 
I am experimenting a bit with these luts. But I'm having a hard time correcting the blacks. Setting the pedestal-black and such. Everything compresses too much down there, instead of really "settling down" on the 0 line. This is obiously because the lut is cheating me, as the real signal is a Redlog signal, where its lowest value is far from the pedesal, and therefore the wheels can't get a grip on them. But is there another way, of really "shifting that signal down"? Thanx!
 
Thomas I'm running into the same problem, it's impossible to get blacks to rest on 0 nicely! Same with the highlights at 100, are you experiencing that as well? Are people who use these outs simply not letting their images hit 0 and 100?
 
That is happening because the lut is rolling off the shadows and the highlights. This is what you want it to do. That way you will have a nice natural highlights that still retain detail, and your shadows wont crush. If you want more harsh clipping of black and whites then I would apply a grade above/after your Lut and that should get you the results your looking for.
 
Thomas - I know what you mean about the wheels not being able to get a grip on the elevated blacks in Redlog film. It can be a bit of an issue when grading log material in general - especially lowcon footage. Have you tried grading with the color wheels set to log mode? There's a low range setting which allows you to adjust the exact amount of influence the shadow color wheel has. You should be able to raise it to allow you to grab more of the elevated blacks.

Nick - The 2393 LUT doesn't quite hit 0,0,0 black but at 1,2,1 black its close enough. No problems hitting 255, 255, 255 white though.

What you experience as the values approach the far ends is exactly what Joseph explains above. I generally don't have a problem with the way the highlights roll off, but the LUT generally makes the details in the darks quite muddy and compressed. I counter this by raising the entire image a little bit using the offset then using the shadow wheel and pulling the blacks down - so basically you're expanding out the lower end again. If you need even finer control create a node that qualifies just the blacks using a luminance qualifier, adjust to taste. You should be able to do this with curves as well...
 
Hey Juan,

I have a question for you. I shot with my 5d2 using technicolor style profile(produces flat images such as to offer more range). Whenever I attempt any color grading of any kind and throw one of the kodak lut, the image looks very bad afterwards. What is the trick to this type of grading/lut combination? I have been to your site, read all the content concerning lut but I'm still stuck. Is my problem just in grading? Also I'm torn between speedgrade and resolve... which one do you prefer?
 
Kalulu Ngilo said:
Hey Juan,

I have a question for you. I shot with my 5d2 using technicolor style profile(produces flat images such as to offer more range). Whenever I attempt any color grading of any kind and throw one of the kodak lut, the image looks very bad afterwards. What is the trick to this type of grading/lut combination? I have been to your site, read all the content concerning lut but I'm still stuck. Is my problem just in grading? Also I'm torn between speedgrade and resolve... which one do you prefer?
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Film print out luts are very destructive and H.264/8-bit sources can't handle it.
 
Filip is right. In general the combination of 5D footage plus LUTs can create some pretty unpleasant results. It's doable, but you'll be spending more time trying not to break the codec versus actually grading.

I'm actually starting to think the technicolor cinestyle profile might be a bad idea. It's so flat your not spreading the entire image over the 8bits. So you're wasting what few bits you do have.

I'd try shooting in another profile and then apply the video2log LUT as the input to get you into log space. That's how I've treated most 5D footage I've worked with and it's given me ok results.

But since you've already shot this footage... Try and keep your corrections to global changes - stay away from secondary corrections particularly anything hue based. If you need to use them apply a lot of blur to key (a value of 50+). Also Try a bit of noise reduction on the first node...

Hopefully some of that helps.
 
Thanks for the tip Juan and Filip

Juan Melara said:
Filip is right. In general the combination of 5D footage plus LUTs can create some pretty unpleasant results. It's doable, but you'll be spending more time trying not to break the codec versus actually grading.

I'm actually starting to think the technicolor cinestyle profile might be a bad idea. It's so flat your not spreading the entire image over the 8bits. So you're wasting what few bits you do have.

I'd try shooting in another profile and then apply the video2log LUT as the input to get you into log space. That's how I've treated most 5D footage I've worked with and it's given me ok results.

But since you've already shot this footage... Try and keep your corrections to global changes - stay away from secondary corrections particularly anything hue based. If you need to use them apply a lot of blur to key (a value of 50+). Also Try a bit of noise reduction on the first node...

Hopefully some of that helps.
Click to expand...
 
If using any 5d footage with the technicolour lut or my personal favourite which is steve shaw from light illusion 5d lut... Convert all footage to cineform along with the QT changer so you can have some sort of timecode.

I have finished 2 x "c" grade feature films this way on my DaVinci and the pictures look fantastic using any display LUT you like. I have seen the results in the cinema and they look great. The key is that the 5d stuff needs to have the correct exposure at the time. If you are 2 stops +/- then you are F*&ked. Even 1 stop you are half way baked also.

Were there is a will there is always a way!
 
Juan Melara said:
Thomas - I know what you mean about the wheels not being able to get a grip on the elevated blacks in Redlog film. It can be a bit of an issue when grading log material in general - especially lowcon footage. Have you tried grading with the color wheels set to log mode? There's a low range setting which allows you to adjust the exact amount of influence the shadow color wheel has. You should be able to raise it to allow you to grab more of the elevated blacks.
Click to expand...

Thanx Juan. Just saw this answer, looks like a good solution to my problem. :)
 
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