Kinefinity in full atack mode

[Joachim Hoge]

I doubt they could match Reds service turnaround. Remember when we got our brand new Epic-M and it was some pixel faults on the sensor. 9 days from we sent the camera back to Red from Norway until we had it back in our hands fixed. That impressed me big time (even if it felt like a year).
Of course I might be proven wrong....

 

[Zack Birlew]

I saw a Youtube review video where a guy who bought a Kinefinity camera said that he tried booting the camera up one day and it wouldn't power on so he had to send it in. According to him, it took about two weeks or so to get the camera back and they just gave him another one basically. So, it might not be as convenient as RED's turnaround but, really, it's as much a gamble as any camera these days. Despite the China-only repair issue, I really like the Kinefinity cameras and I would have bought one of those if I didn't get my used RED One MX.

Now, on my dream equipment wishlist, no matter how many drafts I do, I still have a Kinefinity camera on there for not only the great RAW image quality to price ratio but also because of its off the shelf modularity with regards to SSD media, inexpensive batteries (Sony NP-F I believe?), and the new E Mount option which is an absolute killer feature. These features really make it a great travel camera candidate and the complete ease of use in regards to accessories and E Mount lens options make it fun to use. For example, I love my RED One MX but even though I can put it together in no time flat, I still have to go through the motions and gear it up but I can just pick up my Sony AX100 or A7S and be ready to go and that makes those cameras fun to use, especially the AX100. So with the Kinefinity Terra, I can see that all I'd have to do is grab a couple batteries for the LCD and camera, pop in a Samsung Pro SSD and be ready to go. Some would probably say just get a DSMC1/2 but the fact that I could stop into any Best Buy, Fry's, or whatever computer store and grab another SSD or even a battery if I need it is a big sell and then there's the E Mount which I could put a Speedbooster on and/or use just about any lens available with inexpensive mount adapters. That's a kind of openness that I wished RED had continued with as it was all there with offering the Nikon mount for the RED One MX for many of us who were coming off of the 35mm adapter rigs with manual Nikon and M42 lenses, but that all went away into these expensive accessories and proprietary devices which, at the time, made sense as nobody made storage as fast as RED Mags and so on but now, much like choosing the RED Mags vs Mini Mags, I don't see why a standard SSD option isn't there for the lowest end recording options as Kinefinity and others show it's clearly possible. In any case, I wish Kinefinity all the best and I'm looking forward to seeing how the MAVO line turns out.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

I saw a Youtube review video where a guy who bought a Kinefinity camera said that he tried booting the camera up one day and it wouldn't power on so he had to send it in. According to him, it took about two weeks or so to get the camera back and they just gave him another one basically. So, it might not be as convenient as RED's turnaround but, really, it's as much a gamble as any camera these days. Despite the China-only repair issue, I really like the Kinefinity cameras and I would have bought one of those if I didn't get my used RED One MX.

Now, on my dream equipment wishlist, no matter how many drafts I do, I still have a Kinefinity camera on there for not only the great RAW image quality to price ratio but also because of its off the shelf modularity with regards to SSD media, inexpensive batteries (Sony NP-F I believe?), and the new E Mount option which is an absolute killer feature. These features really make it a great travel camera candidate and the complete ease of use in regards to accessories and E Mount lens options make it fun to use. For example, I love my RED One MX but even though I can put it together in no time flat, I still have to go through the motions and gear it up but I can just pick up my Sony AX100 or A7S and be ready to go and that makes those cameras fun to use, especially the AX100. So with the Kinefinity Terra, I can see that all I'd have to do is grab a couple batteries for the LCD and camera, pop in a Samsung Pro SSD and be ready to go. Some would probably say just get a DSMC1/2 but the fact that I could stop into any Best Buy, Fry's, or whatever computer store and grab another SSD or even a battery if I need it is a big sell and then there's the E Mount which I could put a Speedbooster on and/or use just about any lens available with inexpensive mount adapters. That's a kind of openness that I wished RED had continued with as it was all there with offering the Nikon mount for the RED One MX for many of us who were coming off of the 35mm adapter rigs with manual Nikon and M42 lenses, but that all went away into these expensive accessories and proprietary devices which, at the time, made sense as nobody made storage as fast as RED Mags and so on but now, much like choosing the RED Mags vs Mini Mags, I don't see why a standard SSD option isn't there for the lowest end recording options as Kinefinity and others show it's clearly possible. In any case, I wish Kinefinity all the best and I'm looking forward to seeing how the MAVO line turns out.

Zak this is a great post for every camera manufacturer that aspires to enter the market with a disruptive product.
They should use this post as a manual for successful young indy film maker camera. What about the price point? Where do you think it should be?

 

[Paul Duvilla]

For those of you who haven't seen it yet. Philip Bloom uploaded his review of the Terra 4K yesterday. It's pretty long but worth the watch.

http://philipbloom.net/blog/kinefinity/

 

[C. Burkhart]

I saw a Youtube review video where a guy who bought a Kinefinity camera said that he tried booting the camera up one day and it wouldn't power on so he had to send it in. According to him, it took about two weeks or so to get the camera back and they just gave him another one basically. So, it might not be as convenient as RED's turnaround but, really, it's as much a gamble as any camera these days. Despite the China-only repair issue, I really like the Kinefinity cameras and I would have bought one of those if I didn't get my used RED One MX.

This is not entirely true that repairs only occur in China. Repairs also occur in Berlin. This may also be the case at some of their other dealers. From what I understand if they deem the problem too complex, then it would be sent to China. However, if its mostly a question of swapping out a board, etc., depending on whether or not they have the parts they can turn it around in Europe.

 

[Zack Birlew]

Zak this is a great post for every camera manufacturer that aspires to enter the market with a disruptive product.
They should use this post as a manual for successful young indy film maker camera. What about the price point? Where do you think it should be?

Well, I quite like Blackmagic Design’s pricing structure. They have their lower end models and they have their higher end models with some in between and a few specialty products here and there but when it was down to the basics with the Pocket, Production 2.5K/4K, and Ursa, there was a progression in price and features and it was, in my opinion, quite fair. You knew what you were getting with each camera and the level of features between them and it would have been the same even if they were all 4K. The pricing increases weren’t that bad either, they were steps, not leaps. Much like with RED cameras now, you could do the Raven as a kit but that’s just about as much as a Scarlet-W body which would be more camera than the Raven but then you’d have to kit it out yourself and if, you wanted 8K, it catapults to Epic-W and the higher Weapon cameras for 2-3 times the price which is way out of indie budgets more so than it already was. It gets to where you’re afraid to take the camera out anywhere and that’s not a good feeling to have. Now an 8K camera for $6,000-$8,000 or so and it’s not the end of the world to take it around and try things out or, you know, risk taking to the beach or the forest wilderness.

 

[Mike P.]

I keep saying the same thing; Terra is ~2lbs... as in, almost half DSMC2... And it only uses 21w, so those 30wh BP30s that go in the handle should actually last ~90mins! Plus E-mount/Speedbooster/KineEnhancer for VV/FF35 footage, ND mount, I think there's a global shutter mode, internal raw/prores/dnxhd/cineform, inexpensive and readily available media... Plus it's only $4k for 4k or $6k for 6k... Needless to say they're doing a *lot* of things right on paper...

... And yet, I've never seen one in real life. It's obviously not vapourware, but I would never buy a camera without using it and since they have major lost-in-translation issues, it makes pulling the trigger a tad difficult.

It'll be nice if the Mavo LF gets rid of any quirks (specifically the monitor lag) and hits the ground running.

 

[David J. Buchanan]

I heard they're terrible with orders... People been waiting for months for there Terra. Sound like anyone we know? Ha!

 

[John Brawley]

or even a battery if I need it is a big sell and then there's the E Mount which I could put a Speedbooster on and/or use just about any lens available with inexpensive mount adapters.

Really ? They're doing E mount ? My understanding was that Sony weren't allowing anyone to make a camera in E mount so that it would stay exclusive to Sony. (lenses of course in E mount are fine)

If they're doing an E mount they must have paid a lot of money to Sony or they're somehow thinking they can get away with doing it without Sony caring.

JB

 

[Mike P.]

Really ? They're doing E mount ? My understanding was that Sony weren't allowing anyone to make a camera in E mount so that it would stay exclusive to Sony. (lenses of course in E mount are fine)

If they're doing an E mount they must have paid a lot of money to Sony or they're somehow thinking they can get away with doing it without Sony caring.

JB

It's passive/doesn't have electronic lens control...

 

[Sergio Perez]

Have a friend that worked as DIT and editor on a project in China shot with one of these. He said the screen lag/ monitoring resolution issue is bad. He also was not a fan of the camera menus. However, images coming out of it were "very good", according to him. Could shoot a feature with it no problem in terms of quality. Don't know what version of the camera he was talking about though.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

So, you mean they are doing a professional video and cinema pocket 4k camera for under $500, or an 8k version for less than $1000. If not, they aren't doing a convincing full attack.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Have a friend that worked as DIT and editor on a project in China shot with one of these. He said the screen lag/ monitoring resolution issue is bad. He also was not a fan of the camera menus. However, images coming out of it were "very good", according to him. Could shoot a feature with it no problem in terms of quality. Don't know what version of the camera he was talking about though.

Menues looks good I think from watching Bloom going trough them.
To me these cameras looks far better than the BM offerings. I kind of like the somewhat dessturated look that I seen from them. Possibly the choice from the ones using them or the luts that comes with but they got some appeal there for me.

Then also the mount options seams very good. To me red has an issue with the sensors sunk into the camera body to far. Imagine all the possibilities we would have with mounts, lenses, back lens filtering, speedbosters etc if the red sensors where just a cm closer to the front if the camera body.

Then yes, I got 4 minimags half a terabyte each. I still would like to see a standard SSD module.

Even though Kinefinity is very much a red ripoff they seam to have adressed quite a few points that red did not.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Have a friend that worked as DIT and editor on a project in China shot with one of these. He said the screen lag/ monitoring resolution issue is bad. He also was not a fan of the camera menus. However, images coming out of it were "very good", according to him. Could shoot a feature with it no problem in terms of quality. Don't know what version of the camera he was talking about though.

Not sure why would someone want to shoot a feature on it. While sleeping well.
And how does one control the shot and action with a high monitoring lag.

In case of a lower budget film which cannot cover cine camera rental (for some reason), C200 and FS5 allow S35 raw capture and come from manufacturers with long year experience and reliability.

 

[Grzegorz Gill]

Used the terra 6k recently on a feature, had terrible rolling shutter even on a 18mm super speed. I like the size, and the side grip battery lasts well over an hour. Cheap price point, still don't feel I'd buy into it.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

You guys really should compare against BM products, not Red, which is a class or more above it. You might then start thinking that BM is better compared to the 4k's.

Seriously, if Kinefinity were going to take on the world, they should have done it before. Over 10 years ago, and with a cineform, before BM, and Red was exposed in periods after where they could have done something like what BM is trying to do. A broadcast/eng/producer/cinema, all in one 4kp50/60 visually lossless camera. 4 markets with aggressive pricing, and $2k now.

Red us moving towards cheaper 8k cameras with Foxconn. Do kinefinity or BM, have a long term answer?

 

[L. Langer]

The latest Kinefinity camera is the right ideas paired with poor implementation, which - to be fair - is the general state of Chinese electronics products. The long-standing Chinese tendency to do things quick and dirty for a low price never works well with the newer, nationalist desire to "show the world what we can do", which is why so many of their products look great in and out of the box, but perform horribly in reality.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

The latest Kinefinity camera is the right ideas paired with poor implementation, which - to be fair - is the general state of Chinese electronics products. The long-standing Chinese tendency to do things quick and dirty for a low price never works well with the newer, nationalist desire to "show the world what we can do", which is why so many of their products look great in and out of the box, but perform horribly in reality.

GM said the same thing about Toyota haha....;-)

 

[Wayne Morellini]

The latest Kinefinity camera is the right ideas paired with poor implementation, which - to be fair - is the general state of Chinese electronics products. The long-standing Chinese tendency to do things quick and dirty for a low price never works well with the newer, nationalist desire to "show the world what we can do", which is why so many of their products look great in and out of the box, but perform horribly in reality.

But, they can get most of the performance from 3rd party parts. As long as they can put it together right. But I get you L.

 

[Misha Engel]

Used the terra 6k recently on a feature, had terrible rolling shutter even on a 18mm super speed. I like the size, and the side grip battery lasts well over an hour. Cheap price point, still don't feel I'd buy into it.

It looks a lot better with the new one.