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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

It‘s a great camera, but... some odd quality issues on #112

The hands on a matte box idea is a VERY BAD ONE! I have seen it done, and I have seen matte box fail and the camera go down. This is so not what matte boxes are made for. I don't care what big name DP you saw doing it does, it is just not safe.

Nothing makes your nutsack scrunch up more than watching a mattebox rip away from it's frame and send a 435 crashing to the ground superspeed first.

That being said I don't know any longtime AC (myself included) who looked at the RED handles and thought they were going to work. Any style of clamp on handles just wont cut the mustard. Most good handheld systems are rosette based. Preferably ARRI or my fave the Tango Blue handles.
 
"Give me five potatos". F-ing best post ever. Holding the mattebox is great, though it does sometimes interfere with your First's ability to see the barrel markings / marking disk. However, the MB20 shade, and like models, are prone to separating from the box, so it is an at-risk operation at best.

I hold the mattebox all the time and I agree that it does indeed improve the operator-camera interface for composition and so forth.

FWIW, if I walked into a 1st AC situation and was faced with all metric lenses, I'd be on the phone with the rental house for a replacement set immediately. The rest-of-world is metric and they should have an appropriate toolset for their market. Every 1st AC in the room should agree on this. Period.

[EDIT] - As the poster stated above... newer matteboxes - especially highly modular ones - aren't really suitable for heavy handheld work. If you're scooting or on a Tootsie Roll, you might be okay. [EDIT]

e
 
Mike Prevette said:
The hands on a matte box idea is a VERY BAD ONE! I have seen it done, and I have seen matte box fail and the camera go down. This is so not what matte boxes are made for. I don't care what big name DP you saw doing it does, it is just not safe.

Nothing makes your nutsack scrunch up more than watching a mattebox rip away from it's frame and send a 435 crashing to the ground superspeed first.

That being said I don't know any longtime AC (myself included) who looked at the RED handles and thought they were going to work. Any style of clamp on handles just wont cut the mustard. Most good handheld systems are rosette based. Preferably ARRI or my fave the Tango Blue handles.
Click to expand...

Hey Mike...I don't mean to brag...but I was an assistant for 15 years on big budget features and tv and this is how it was/is done.

And it's not dp...it's dp's...ASC dp's. In addition...dp's usually don't operate (there are exceptions of course) but it's usually the operator that insists upon not using handles.

I've used this method as dp, operator, and assistant with Panavision, Arri, Arricam, Moviecam, Mitchell and the like without cause ever.

The assistant that allowed that matte box to fall off on your shoot should have been fired. It's his/her responsibility to make sure all the aks are on properly.

Also...don't think rosette based handles don't come loose. THEY DO!

Remember better control makes a better shot...it's all about the shot and holding the matte box gives you better control.

It's just a matter of taste...you are free to do as you like. Just letting you know how it's done in the real world.
 
Hey Mike:

They do hold the matte box. But there is a catch. They use an MB18 or MB14, and hold the rod as well as the box. The MB 19/20 would never be recommended as its front light shade does pop off with pressure, and the MB19 is to light weight.

Interesting to note:

It seems east coast uses handles, and the west coast uses the rod/mattebox style of handheld.

To each their own.......because they can, and will.

John
 
Geez - this started as a really important thread and has degenerated into a load of bs personal opinions of how best to measure focus and hold the camera. Horses for courses i say.

This metric marking issue has me gobsmacked that RED doesn't see the need for it - WTF. I'll accept that the currently shipping lenses don't have metric markings. Hopefully some smart entrepreneur like Curt from VFS will make a fix - sounds like there will be a bit of a market there and cash to be made. However, I am planning on purchasing the RED prime set but will reconsider that IF there is no rectification by RED or a reasonably priced 3rd party fix.

BTW - love the wiki map Valde! puts the debate into proper perspective. The US, Liberia and Myanmar vs the rest of the world! I hear the Myanmarian Film Industry has some great tax breaks! Maybe I'll move there just so I don't have to be bothered with this stupid debate.

Bottomline is that the vast majority of the world is metric. Ignoring us wont make us go away but it will more than likely piss us off.

That's my BS opinion anyway.

Cam

PS - T stops would be nice too!
 
ozcam said:
BTW - love the wiki map Valde! puts the debate into proper perspective. The US, Liberia and Myanmar vs the rest of the world!
Click to expand...

It's a map showing officially metric countries, not countries where the film business uses metric. You would be extremely hard-pressed to find a metric-only lens anywhere in Canada, for example. The last time it came up for me (1992) the metric lenses were shipped in from Germany.
 
I didn't say it can't be done, I said it shouldn't be done. I've seen it work fine a bunch. I've seen it work the smoothest on Panavision matteboxes. However watching it fail was enough to make me shy away from the habit.

Operating is a very particular thing, and everyone has their own tricks. I can't say that what works for me will be the best for everyone else. In my experience getting your hands as wide as comfortably possible makes for a more stable, accurate operating style.
 
CrewPix.com said:
It's a map showing officially metric countries, not countries where the film business uses metric. You would be extremely hard-pressed to find a metric-only lens anywhere in Canada, for example. The last time it came up for me (1992) the metric lenses were shipped in from Germany.
Click to expand...

Sorry - couldnt find the wikimap which clearly marks where the film industry uses metric. Damn - should stop using wikis to try to illustrate a point because there's always some smart arse out there etc etc.

And you would be extremely hard pressed to find an imperial only lens here in Australia and Im guessing Europe and Asia too. Guess what. We have industries here also. You may have seen one or two of these non-Hollywood products over the years - we occasionally manage to sneak our stuff into the megaplexes without the audience realising.
 
All of you worrying about focus issues best wait until you see what they have built into this system. I've have had a couple of days with one of the latest deliveries and focus is not an issue, you will see what I mean when you get yours. Trust your eyes and the remarkable assists that Red has built in and stop whining about metric or imperial markings. This is by no means the video world nor is it strictly the film world, this is the best of both and it really works. When you actually see what this camera, and it's monitoring systems can do I think you'll be down on your knees thanking Jim and his team.
Brad
 
Mike Prevette said:
I didn't say it can't be done, I said it shouldn't be done. I've seen it work fine a bunch. I've seen it work the smoothest on Panavision matteboxes. However watching it fail was enough to make me shy away from the habit.

Operating is a very particular thing, and everyone has their own tricks. I can't say that what works for me will be the best for everyone else. In my experience getting your hands as wide as comfortably possible makes for a more stable, accurate operating style.
Click to expand...

Once again Mike...your opinion and methods are your own.

Build your IMDB credit base and talk to me later.
 
Hi Red 1255,

You might consider that many of the people on this forum have considerably more experience than you, and that your arrogant, my way or the highway attitude rubs a few people the wrong way. I might also suggest that if you are going to post as rudely as you are, that you should post with an actual name.

Happy New Year,

Nick Gardner
IATSE Local 600
Camera Operator
 
Brook Willard said:
Don't be an ass, red1225.
Click to expand...


Excuse me?! Is this not a FORUM? I'm able to speak my mind and opinion! Can I not speak from experience or express my opinion? Can I not tell a less experienced assistant how it is? If I'm in the former Soviet Union let me know Brook...I'll keep an eye out for KGB
 
red1225 said:
Once again Mike...your opinion and methods are your own.

Build your IMDB credit base and talk to me later.
Click to expand...

Uh oh, I was worried this would turn into a pissing contest.

Let's all decide the new operating standard has to be left hand on the left rod, and right hand you can choose between the matte box or handle. Any variance from this and you are clearly not a professional.

JK obviously. You're both right. It's personal preference (and in some rare cases amount of insurance).
 
red1225.. if you continue to make personal attacks your not welcome here.
 
think of reduser not as a public forum per se, but a big free gathering in Jarred's back yard
 
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