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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is RED ONE MX still viable nowadays?

S

Sorin Stefan

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Hello everybody,

my name is Sorin, I'm from Romania, previous owner of GH2,GH4,GH5, and current owner of one BMMCC and Kowa rehoused anamorphics. I'd like to change my camera and my cinema style to something more capable. My picks are the following:

RED ONE MX full set
-Super 35
-4.5K
-4Kana, 2Kslowmo
-IPP2
-13 stops
-RED RAW and compressed ratios
-rock solid
-PL/EF/NIK mount
- -HDD(cheap but heavy)/SSD(expensive)
- -heaviest at 2.5Kg
- -minimum battery V-mount(heavy)

BMCC 4K
-Super 35(smaller sensor than MX)
-4K
-DNG RAW
-SSD easy mount and cheap to find
-12 stops
-EF mount
-lighter than MX with aprox. 1Kg
-recommended battery V-mount
-not very usable monitor
- -very high chance of FPN


BMPCC 4K
-Four Thirds
-4K
-dual ISO 100-25600
-CFs/SDs/SSDs are easy and cheap to find
-13.5 stops
-MFT mount
-lightest at 680g
-recommended battery NP-F/V-mount light
-4K 60fps crop x3?
-4K cinema pro res(high quality so far)
-big monitor(maybe remove and put on some arm? lose warranty ofc)
-FPN?


So these three are the contenders so far ladies and gentlemen. Can I say I'm shooting myself in the foot by desiring to acquire the MX? I simply can't put in the same conversation the looks of the other two with the RED color and image.For me it does everything apart from beying a cat in the night, it's more of a bat in the night and it's simply unusable. What are my options gents? I can't afford an Epic, and the Scarlet wouldn't be so much of an upgrade as I've read on most threads over here. And probably only next year, the new model from Blackmagic or some upgrade for RED, that would make me interested in buying some model, may appear...Excuse me for repeating myself, but...what are my options gents?

Great thanks,
Sorin
 
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Are you primarily shooting indoors or outdoors? The Red One will devour batteries. I think indoors with wall power a Red One is still useful nowadays, but in the field where you have to lug batteries that get worn out, it's more questionable.
 
Depends on the purpose of the camera.

Red One is much heavier, you have your numbers wrong. It will need assistant and you won't run around with it nowhere near as with compact cameras. For studio use and access to lights R1 would be cool to have.

The new BM "pocket" has interesting technical factors (minus ergonomics) but it is crop.
If raw is a priority, Nikon Z6 and raw using Atomos should be a powerful combo. Rolling shutter is still unknown though...
 
Well, that's why I'm considering shoulder mount or easyrig if I'll have a movi or smth...it's heavy on the batteries cause it's RED, but all kits get a bit jiggy when full set-up mode. Indeed, it's cropped with the BM, but with a metabones speed booster(extra pennies) it becomes Super35, which should be fine, right? Still, it's not as cinematic as the MX with the colour rendering and betters him in low light by light years. Regarding the Z6, that would be something compared to magic lantern on 5d mk3/4?
 
don't waste your money on a R1. It doesn't have 13 stops, its closer to 11 stops.
Compression doesnt go lower than 8:1, so it's not really raw.
No warrenty
Heavy
Gets really hot and eats power for breakfast
Subpar colors
 
BM UMP4.6k or wait for NAB 2019 when you're not in a hurry.
 
Nothing about it is better than the Pocket 4k (specs wise), plus it's big and heavy, chews through batteries, and cumbersome to use (takes 2mins to boot, requires way bigger support, can't fly on gimbal, needs more light, comparatively expensive media, etc. etc.)

Just get a speed booster for that Pocket4k and/or rock those anamorphics!
 
Red one is a nice camera but think for most purposes it really does not fit any more.

But, Roy Andersen still uses his and wins quite a few awards for his films. Then again shoots it all in his studio with extremely controlled light setups that usually takes him months to set up for each scene. And the camera never leaves his hydraulic pedestal tripod.... So if you plan to do something similar then maybe the R1 is an option. :)

But then again even for such setups all they other options will fly pretty much just the same.

Check: http://www.royandersson.com
 
Had no idea about Roy, thanks for that Björn! My thoughts were exactly on the path of taking the pocket 4K, with a super35 Metabones booster and seal the deal, but I've seen basically all of the videos on the net with that camera, and it's doesn't look that cinematic. It looks more like a GH5S, and the image renders just a bit better due to internal RAW. Indeed the price/ergonomy is much better. The C200 is for me a better option than C100 mk2 or C300, image wise it beats the latter two in my humble opinion, but only found the camera used(barebone), for a minimum of $7K, which is above my budget for now. The R1 MX seemed to have much nicer images compared to the pocket 4K, but I believe that I've formed this opinion or taste for the looks, since I enjoyed my BMMCC, that unfortunately suffers from FPN to my huge dislike. I was also thinking about a Scarlet MX, but it didn't seem to be worth the extra money compared to R1 MX, maybe the Epic X would, but again, we're talking different budget here. So as far as it goes for now, I'll wait for NAB this year and keep my hopes up until I'll realise that BM is the way for me, for now.. Many thanks for your suggestions guys, you've helped my patience and pocket stick together.
 
A Speed Graphic is another option. ;-)

If this were 2008 the R1 would be a great option. But it's 2019, light-years ahead. As I sit here right next to my old computer RAID built by Dulce Systems. Time to look to better cameras. Could it still work? Sure. Do you want it? No. The Epic was a quantum leap over the original R1. It was an idea that ushered us into the 4K and beyond generation.

Leave it for the history books. It still shoots remarkable images, but there are so many better options out there in 2019.
 
Sorin Stefan said:
Had no idea about Roy, thanks for that Björn! My thoughts were exactly on the path of taking the pocket 4K, with a super35 Metabones booster and seal the deal, but I've seen basically all of the videos on the net with that camera, and it's doesn't look that cinematic. It looks more like a GH5S, and the image renders just a bit better due to internal RAW. Indeed the price/ergonomy is much better. The C200 is for me a better option than C100 mk2 or C300, image wise it beats the latter two in my humble opinion, but only found the camera used(barebone), for a minimum of $7K, which is above my budget for now. The R1 MX seemed to have much nicer images compared to the pocket 4K, but I believe that I've formed this opinion or taste for the looks, since I enjoyed my BMMCC, that unfortunately suffers from FPN to my huge dislike. I was also thinking about a Scarlet MX, but it didn't seem to be worth the extra money compared to R1 MX, maybe the Epic X would, but again, we're talking different budget here. So as far as it goes for now, I'll wait for NAB this year and keep my hopes up until I'll realise that BM is the way for me, for now.. Many thanks for your suggestions guys, you've helped my patience and pocket stick together.
Click to expand...

C200 is a very good option.

In my camera analysis I've seen fixed pattern noise on it also but on high ISOs.

You also have EVA and FS5mk2 with Atomos to consider.
 
EVA and FS5 with Atomos and kitted are in the Epic scene, at least that's my guess. Another one to consider in this budget scene is KineMINI 4K, which is also Super35 and has a really nice colour science. Don't know much about its software and support is shallow as I've read.
 
You guys have gone soft. I just ran around with my R1MX handheld today. No problem. Pulled my own focus. (hold on got to take a motrin, my back is a bit tweaked). Yeah, it’s old, yeah it’s got its warts, but I like bringing it out every once and a while.

In 2019, there are so many options when it comes to cameras just pick the ones best for you, your projects and your budget. On paper a BMPCC4K may seem better but you have to shoot them side by side and determine which image you like better.

I love that we’re still talking about the R1 11 years later. Good stuff!
 
I have the BMPC 4K and the OG Micro which you currently have. The BMPC 4K is not a good choice between the other options, and not worth the change from the Micro. The Micro has better color science and much more versatility. It cuts in with other cinema cameras easier. The 4K only gets 12 stops in raw and that eats ssd space like the One MX will eat power. It does have a unique and magical look but the hassle of working with it compared to the other options listed is not worth the difference. I use the micro 90% of the time when I get asked to come out as B cam and the Production Camera stays at home. The rolling shutter is so fast at 24 fps it has almost unnoticeable jello, so the argument of global shutter is moot, IMO. It's been cut successfully with A cam up to 6K.

Of the options you listed I would opt to just keep using the micro, honestly.

The best option if you wish to upgrade from the BMMCC is the Ursa Mini Pro. If you find a Red One MX package for sale that has all the media and accessories you need it won't be far off in cost from the Ursa.

Keep in mind, moving from mirrorless/dslr style to a owning a proper rig comes with the investment into that system. It's just not worth it to invest in the aging One MX or the heavily restricted BMPC 4k. The Pocket 4K is cheap enough that it's a viable option. If your budget is so small that the UMP is out then the Pocket 4K is the best choice, especially if you went mft lenses on your Micro.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
You guys have gone soft. I just ran around with my R1MX handheld today. No problem. Pulled my own focus. (hold on got to take a motrin, my back is a bit tweaked). Yeah, it’s old, yeah it’s got its warts, but I like bringing it out every once and a while.

In 2019, there are so many options when it comes to cameras just pick the ones best for you, your projects and your budget. On paper a BMPCC4K may seem better but you have to shoot them side by side and determine which image you like better.

I love that we’re still talking about the R1 11 years later. Good stuff!
Click to expand...

Were you running around with the R1 on an R2? No wonder you need Motrin.
 
Thank you for the info Geran! Well, I've worked with UMP4.6K and didn't enjoy how it handles low light(the curse of the FPN that I couldn't shake from the camera) or the handling of it(the menu is great though). It requires too much work under some situations and wouldn't like to work with that camera unless I have too. Plus have seen it compared to the Pocket 4K it gets beaten in some scenarios. Well now the contenders are Kinfinity KineMINI 4K, Terra 4K and Pocket 4K. The Kine also has slow mo 120fps at 2K, found some kits under $3K with 4K and HiSpeed licence and some kit things. No, I don't have mft lens, only Canon FDs, Contax 35, 50 1.4 and a Meike 35 1.7 on EF. Also had a Tokina 11-16 but sold it to get a 11-20.

This guy has some nice videos with the Kine.
 
The RED ONE in 2019 is so very very old, that I'd find it tough to recommend it.
If you haven't shot on a RED ONE, and if you don't know it very well (such as the details of M vs MX, or the trade offs with CF vs SSDs, etc), then I absolutely reckon you should avoid a RED ONE.

However there certainly are still many happy RED ONE owners even in 2019, I have good mate who even owns two of them! But as for myself? I'd have to spot a RED ONE going for at least *HALF* the usual prices you see them for, before I'd even begin to consider buying a RED ONE for myself.

As for the Blackmagic Production Camera 4K (BMPC4K)? This was BMD's first attempt at a 4K or "S35" camera, and was pretty flawed. The URSA Mini 4K is the "same" sensor and can often be found secondhand for about the same price or just a teeny bit more. And I'd definitely recommend the URSA Mini 4K over the BMPC4K (of course the URSA Mini 4.6K would be a massively better pick than either! And the URSA Mini Pro even better again).

In the end, I'd honestly rather have a Panasonic GH5S, Z Cam E2, BMPCC4K, Nikon Z6, Fujifilm X-T3 (just to list a few choices! We're spoiled for choice with many fantastically excellent options in 2019) over a BMPC4K or RED ONE.

The BMPCC4K is an interesting pick, and I'd basically put it equal alongside the list of ones I just gave before. With each camera being a case of "six of one, half a dozen of the other", and it really being up to the person in terms of what they want and value the most. (for instance if you value highly 4K 120fps then clearly the Z Cam E2 will win! If you love having internal ProRes then you'll be picking from BMPCC4K or Z Cam E2. If you love a well polished and well thought out implementation of a camera, then the GH5S could be your top pick. Want killer lowlight? Then go for GH5S again. Want to play with raw? Then Nikon Z6 or BMPCC4K will be your main picks. Love the Fujifilm colors SOOC? Then go for X-T3! And so on and so on and so on.... different horses for courses! All depends on your tastes)
 
Sorin Stefan said:
Well, that's why I'm considering shoulder mount or easyrig if I'll have a movi or smth...it's heavy on the batteries cause it's RED, but all kits get a bit jiggy when full set-up mode. Indeed, it's cropped with the BM, but with a metabones speed booster(extra pennies) it becomes Super35, which should be fine, right? Still, it's not as cinematic as the MX with the colour rendering and betters him in low light by light years. Regarding the Z6, that would be something compared to magic lantern on 5d mk3/4?
Click to expand...

With the Metabones XL then the BMPCC4K has a much bigger field of vision than S35 (heck, it is starting to get closer to full frame really).

The Z6 raw is nothing at all like the messy mess of Magic Lantern raw, the Z6 is providing raw video thanks to an official partnership between Nikon and Atomos. You couldn't wish for a better way to record raw externally!!

As for a RED ONE, if you've never personally done a full shoot with one, then I suspect both its rigged up weight (it's a lot!) and its large power draw and consumption (it's a lot!) will surprise.

Forget about ever putting a RED ONE on a Movi, it just not is a practical option. (even if "technically possible" I think)

As for looking at comparison videos of how a RED ONE vs BMPCC4K looks, or heck in general videos from different cameras.

Remember that a RED ONE in its heyday was often shot by experts in their field, together with a tonne of support gear and full lighting trucks and manpower and a schedule to use it all!

While a BMPCC4K is more likely being used by some indie filmmaking student with minimal resources or time.

*THAT* is where the difference in image quality between the two videos comes from! And *NOT* the camera itself.
 
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